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Druid Changes Patch 3.1


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#1 charriu

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 04:24 PM

This thread is meant for discussion of the upcoming changes in patch 3.1.

Today, Eyonix posted some first bits of information about the class changes. Here are the druid ones.

DRUID

Savage Defense – this is a new passive ability. When a druid in Dire Bear form deals a melee critical strike, the druid gains a damage shield equal to 25% of their attack power. The next hit completely removes the shield regardless of how much damage was done.
Survival of the Fittest has had its bonus armor reduced to compensate for the above increase in damage mitigation.
Faerie Fire (and similar debuffs) now reduces armor by 5%. See Sunder Armor in the warrior update below for additional details.
Thorns and Nature’s Grasp can be cast in Tree of Life form.
Survival Instincts now works in Moonkin form.
Replenish – to avoid confusion, this talent has been renamed “Revitalize.” It now also works with Wild Growth.
We are also looking at increasing the sustained (not burst) damage of feral druids in cat form.


From World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Upcoming Class Change Highlights (Part 2)

#2 Arentios

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 04:28 PM

I'll note that Savage Defense sounds very much like a non-talent, free ability as oppossed to another talent. An attempt to get druids more tanking stats to scale with and corresponds roughly to block, with crit matching block rating and AP matching block value. Obviously it's a bit different, notably not being as good for AoE tanking with only proc'ing off your attacks and vanishing after single hits, but might scale better than block on single targets.


Replenish (now Revitalize) was like that for a bit in alpha I recall. With WG now having a cooldown, and practical evidence showing the weakness of the talent in general, I guess they decided it could be brought back. The notes posted today don't say anything about whether or not the proc rate is different for WG compared to Rejuv.

#3 HypnosZdC

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 04:50 PM

Using every GCD and Mauling/autoattacking leads to an attack speed of ~1,07
Factoring in some haste gear/buffs, some lag and using FFF/Demo Roar we have an
attack speed of lets just say 1 attack/second for a quick guess.
Raidbuffed AP in Bear ist ~5-6k AP, so 25% of that is a damage shield of 1250-1500
With around 35% crit this means a damage shield every three seconds, or reducing your
incoming damage by ~400-500 dps
Strongly depens on the Sotf-nerf if I'll like it or not ^^ And it also depends a lot on the Boss!
No use in proccing the damage shield if the Boss hasn't even attacked you since the last procced.

For trash tanking the shield will be up much more, with 5 targets it should procc 90% of the time.

#4 halmmar

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 04:54 PM

As long as it doesn't have a cooldown it seems decent. Lame that it uses the same mechanic as ILotP, my guess is you'll get it from there instead of the lame 6 sec CD heals...

Edit: Feels weird that Cat gets 4% crit and Bear 4% damage from Master Shapeshifter when they clearly would want the opposite with this change.

#5 Thessaly

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 05:07 PM

I know that other classes have similar problems (DKs, in particular), but the wedding of mitigation to attack based procs makes the immunity shield granted by Shadron's acolyte much more of an annoyance then it already is.

Hopefully the art/animation for it won't be something recycled.

#6 hquest

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 05:08 PM

Where is the Moonkin love?

At least, looks like Starfall buff may show earlier than Ulduar -- or way after if it is forgot.

#7 Diba

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 05:10 PM

I still don't get why they're throwing these buffs to Feral PvP and leaving Balance and Resto completely untouched.

#8 Pater

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 05:10 PM

So what role do they think we play? Savage Defense seems to be targeted at tanking single, slow-hitting targets. I would also suggest it's targeted at targets that deal spell damage since the shield is more effective against spells than melee because it's most likely pre-armor. I wonder if they're trying to make us caster tanks--can any other class take a cut off the max hit of spell damage like this?

edit: I'm actually wondering if they are trying to specialize the tanks, with us as a primary or backup anti-caster tank. (I guess the first post came across as a complaint, which it was not intended to be.)

#9 Alerian

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 05:11 PM

Where is the Moonkin love?

At least, looks like Starfall buff may show earlier than Ulduar -- or way after if it is forgot.


These preview lists are not comprehensive. The Survival Instincts change is most likely a flavor change to match things like Feral AP weapons where you see bear, cat, and moonkin together.

The Starfall buff is a hotfix item, so it will be pre-3.1.

#10 Deathwing

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 05:21 PM

So what role do they think we play? Savage Defense seems to be targeted at tanking single, slow-hitting targets. I would also suggest it's targeted at targets that deal spell damage since the shield is more effective against spells than melee because it's most likely pre-armor. Are they trying to make us caster tanks?


I thought all shields were post armor/damage reduction.

#11 Gingershnaps

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 05:46 PM

Given current raid Jewelry itemization, would the shield change make some dps rings/necklaces better for tanking than the current "tanking" pieces?

#12 charriu

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 05:48 PM

I thought all shields were post armor/damage reduction.


They have to be, otherwise shields with ~3k absorb values would be pretty much meaningless against anything outside a non-heroic 5man instance.

#13 Smartiepants

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 05:55 PM

I like the idea behind the SD mechanic, gives us another chance at scaling, however the reduced armor makes us much more vulnerable to RNG spikes, which isn't that great.

No love for the tree though. This is another nerf to resto PVP imo, being as I'll flip to bear to survive, with the hybrid 33/38 build, I won't be doing melee crits to get this up.

#14 Melthu

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 05:55 PM

Let's make a comparison between Savage Defense and armor. Let's assume that you have 38k armor, 7k AP, and that the boss hits for 40k pre-mitigation. 38k armor reduces that hit to 12,179. Now let's say that you had a Savage Defense shield up, which knocks off 1750 damage, and the final hit was 12,179. In that case the original hit was 13,929, which occurs if you have 31,136 armor. That means the shield was worth 6,864 armor. Of course, it's less reliable than straight armor, but it's quite powerful and probably works on spells too.

#15 Adoriele

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 05:59 PM

These preview lists are not comprehensive. The Survival Instincts change is most likely a flavor change to match things like Feral AP weapons where you see bear, cat, and moonkin together.

The Starfall buff is a hotfix item, so it will be pre-3.1.


Yes, giving Moonkin Last Stand is clearly just a flavor thing, and definitely not a PvP buff.

#16 Pater

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 06:06 PM

OK--I must have just been wrong about pre- and post-armor. You're right it would be worthless otherwise.

Are feral tanks the best damage reducers now? Big, slow-hitting boss mob would hit any other tank for 14k, but hits the feral tank for 12.25k? Or do the other tanks have similar always-up reduction values?

#17 hquest

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 06:12 PM

I guess Blizzard is expecting us to put damage reduction in favor of some DPS (check for some other classes new abilities, ie PW:Barrage), so we all have needed survivability for Ulduar - I remember Blizzard telling in the past "if you are stacking Stamina or Haste gear, then you are looking forward to Season 6 or Ulduar".

Right now, many classes are already doing some serious damage, and it appears Moonkins are on this list. And the new Ulduar gear may fix this survivability so we can all get back to damage dealing as we were used to.

Still, I am not excited at all for any of the announced changes.

And yes, I am still confident we should get Startall fixed as a hotfix.

#18 thalys

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 06:14 PM

Assuming the shield works against spells (the text says "next hit" which is ambiguous) it won't be better against them because a) spells tend to be fewer, larger hits, and B) avoidance won't improve your uptime.

Also treating your yellow and white/maul attacks as a single combined swing timer is not the right way to figure out uptime on this. It's (odds of a crit after you take damage before the next boss swing) to get the shield up, and (odds of the boss dealing damage to you) that it drops again--since it doesn't stack, you can't just use your crit rate and average swing speed to determine net mitigation.

#19 Pater

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 06:15 PM

I assumed it wouldn't stack--but I have seen speculation in other threads that it would. Each hit reduces 1 charge, each charge shields up to 25%AP. It seems more likely that it won't stack, however. I think they would have told us the max number of stacks if it did.

#20 david0925

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 06:18 PM

SD is a pretty unique concept that scales bear mitigation with crit and AP, although the number may or may not need fine tuning. Now we get to play with strength vs agility for bear form too, haha.




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