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Demonic Pact and rDPS vs Personal DPS


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#21 Debuff

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 09:57 PM

Another thing that I wanted to toss into the mix is is DP isn't a static SP buff. It may make math easier to model it as a static value but when a lock pops trinkets, his SP goes up higher (and thus the raids). This is worth noting because intelligent use of trinkets and blood fury during bloodlust will result in a higher spellpower buff when your raid casters can use it the most. This complicates the process of putting a value on DP but should increase it's theoretical worth.

#22 Chaley

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 01:15 PM

Has anyone seen on the PTR (apologies for not testing it myself) if DP now takes our damage from spirit into account? Or does it still only go based on our non fel armor damage?

#23 Ankou

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 02:03 PM

It still does not take the spirit portion of felarmor into account.
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#24 Meriana

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 11:46 PM

maybe a dumb question, maybe not. I tried search but couldn't find it. How often does the pet crit? Do i need Demonic Tactics together with Demonic Pact or can i invest those points somewhere better?

#25 merlins

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 06:37 AM

Has anyone seen on the PTR (apologies for not testing it myself) if DP now takes our damage from spirit into account? Or does it still only go based on our non fel armor damage?


is this a bug? or is it working as intended. Is it supposed to take the spirit portion into account?

#26 Morrigan

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 07:50 AM

is this a bug? or is it working as intended. Is it supposed to take the spirit portion into account?


Yes it is, see: World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Demo Warlock - Fel Armor bug?
They have fixed spirit contribution issues with pet scaling (afaik), but not this.

Maybe you guys from the US should make a thread about it on the PTR forums and keep it bumped, there is one on the EU forums but I don't think the devs even read there...

#27 dropwhat

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 02:47 PM

This should def be addressed. Considering that 12 seconds if you catch a trinket proc with your raiding damage. you could be giving somewhere around 400-500 spell damage for 12 seconds would be very nice.

#28 Morrigan

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 04:09 AM

Btw, DP doesn't benefit from the spell power gained through the new Life Tap glyph either :( Could have made demo really interesting, keeping the LT buff up by tapping every 20 secs to support the raid, even if it turned out to be a small personal dps loss.

#29 Ankou

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 12:20 PM

Has that been raised as a bug yet? I can see a reason why a trink would count but life tap wouldn't.
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#30 trangoul

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 03:14 PM

Has that been raised as a bug yet? I can see a reason why a trink would count but life tap wouldn't.


Did they fix the spirit part of fel armor yet? If not than I assume its the same exact problem with fel armor spirit contribution not counting.

#31 Ankou

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 04:05 PM

Did they fix the spirit part of fel armor yet? If not than I assume its the same exact problem with fel armor spirit contribution not counting.


Sigh your right they have not fixed that and the mechanics are most like linked to everything to do with spirit.
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#32 Morbain

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 05:15 PM

Regarding the comment about the dynamic nature of the buff... Am I correct in assuming that the amount of SP gained from DP is based on the amount of SP you have at the time it procs? Meaning, if you pop trinkets (or get trinket procs), then DP has to proc (pet has to crit) during that time in order for the raid's DP buff to be affected?

Also, is there any problem with overriding the DP buff with one that is lower SP value? ie. a problem with "a more powerful spell is already active" or similar situation.

If nobody has an answer I'll try to test it myself and post later, I haven't really started messing with it yet on the PTR.

#33 Ankou

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 06:55 PM

Regarding the comment about the dynamic nature of the buff...


you are correct that the amount of SP gained from DP is based on the amount of SP you have at the time it procs. Given the following bugs:

-DP does no take into account the spirit portion of SP gained from Felarmor
-Does not take into account the SP gained from life tap glyph.

I do not know if a strong DP will over write a weaker one, but I know it will over write the totem.
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#34 turturin

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 08:09 PM

I do not know if a strong DP will over write a weaker one, but I know it will over write the totem.


It does. The previous value of the buff is over-written every time the pet crits and refreshes the buff.

#35 Dotdot

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 09:34 PM

I started a thread on the PTR forums, if you have a US account please bump/reply to this thread, maybe if it gets enough attention from the community the devs will look in to it.

World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> [BUG] Demonic Pact

#36 Steelfury

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 11:09 PM

Although I've stated the issues in a more simplistic manner, I had created a thread earlier today and have already gotten a blue's response (which was surprisingly fast). I also realized that in hurrying I wrote Dark Pact instead of Demonic Pact -_-, hopefully the dev's read between the lines.

World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> [Bug] Dark Pact

#37 Woonz

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 11:36 PM

Gear level of the warlock. Based upon scaling of a Haunt/Ruin spec vs a DP spec, the more gear, the bigger the loss in personal DPS. (This is based off of SimCraft simulations of scaling) So, how much personal DPS is lost.


It is important to note that this spec scales with gear. The better the gear the better it performs. Does it do as well as Affliction or any other of the cookie cutter spec? NO. But it does enough output to consider having DP provided your raid make-up will greatly benefit from it.


spell power equivalent to your DP buff minus the 280 from totem of wrath. So for example, if your DP buff provides 350 spell power, that's a net gain of 70 spell power to each caster in the raid.


I think the real question here is not each individual casters gain. Since it's a raid buff the actual gain should be based on the number of casters (DPS/Healers) in the raid. Also, it will scale better for the raid if your core members are casters. Less of an effect with say 8 casters and more of an effect with 12. It is important to note also that even if you have a DP lock in your raid the Elemental Shamen will still need to drop his totem. DP is not a replacement for an Elemental Shamen even if the lock has 5000 Spell Power and since not all fights are Patchwerk you can see what I am hinting at. I prefer to look at DP as a Bonus.

If I lose 300-400DPS because of my spec but the raid gains 1200-1500DPS and we also gain 600-1200HPS I figure it's worth it.


Sorry if any of this has been mentioned, I do not have time to read the entire thread at the moment.

#38 Morrigan

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 01:22 AM

Although I've stated the issues in a more simplistic manner, I had created a thread earlier today and have already gotten a blue's response (which was surprisingly fast). I also realized that in hurrying I wrote Dark Pact instead of Demonic Pact -_-, hopefully the dev's read between the lines.

World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> [Bug] Dark Pact


Well, the funny thing is... you are actually right, Dark Pact also doesn't scale correctly from the spell power gained through spirit (not that it mattered).
They seriously should get their stuff together, seeing that even things like Soul Siphon's effect on drains seem to have problems with spirit scaling, which is really, REALLY odd, and in case of DP, this bugged behaviour completely destroys the appeal of a potentially very interesting talent/build.

#39 TheRabidSniper

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Posted 22 March 2009 - 04:41 PM

Demonic Pact does NOT calculate buff based on current Spellpower

It *used* to, but does not now, on the current PTR build.
NONE of the following are taken into account:


  • SPI-based SP bonus from Fel Armor
  • SP gained from Life Tap (glyphed)
  • Lightweave Enchant (+250 SP)
  • iCD-based Trinket procs (tested with both Sundial of the Exiled and Forge Ember)
  • Use-based Trinket procs (tested with Mark of the War Prisoner)


Across ALL of these, the amount of SP gained was the exact same, no matter which ones were up, over any combination of buffs. Right now, it is purely based off of current, static Spellpower; i.e., SP gained from gear, enchants, flask, food.

Because of this, in my mix of 10/25-man gear (mostly 10man), I am ONLY giving 207 SP, self-buffed.



Edit: I just realized I am not sure whether Demonic Knowledge is being taken into account, though I would assume so; I just didn't bother verifying the numbers.

Also, it would be interesting to test whether DP would calculate off of totem-enhanced numbers. I.e., if FTT or ToW are up, will DP numbers be inflated? People say they don't stack, but will the one be boosted by the other?

#40 Zakalwe

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Posted 22 March 2009 - 04:44 PM

Because of this, in my mix of 10/25-man gear (mostly 10man), I am ONLY giving 207 SP, self-buffed.

Is this on the PTR, or on live? And does it include demonic knowledge? And the normal spell power component of fel armor?




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