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Discipline priest raiding compendium


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#501 Squeakster

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 12:17 PM

You have the right idea, when you have to save two people with Frost Blast the way to go is PWS the first and Penance the second. You can also just PWS the first and flash heal the second, or just flash heal each one. From your combat log it looks like Goldentung died after the third tick of Frost Blast which means he was not topped off prior to it, if the target is at full HP it will take all 4 ticks to kill him. If he had been full HP at the time of the Frost Blast you would have had an extra second to hit him with Penance. So just making sure everyone is topped off quickly after an AoE frost bolt can help a lot.

Also keep in mind that Frost Blast does 104% of the targets HP as damage, so it really only takes a small amount of healing to save the target if he/she is topped off before the Frost Blast, often just being in a shadow priests group is enough.

On a side note, I highly recommend keeping a 5 or 4 charge Prayer of Mending on one of the melee in case they get a Frost Blast because it will bounce among them and really help.

#502 Elimbras

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 04:49 PM

Your druid was not full HP, according to the logs. That is the first reason of your problems.
KT is a boss were you want all your members to be full HP when frost tombs are expected.

Second trouble is, as your said, that you had ranged too close. Range should never be caught in a Ice tombs chain, and especially for healers, that can (should) spread at different raid places (so that to cover the raid, not to be caught at the same time in void zones, and be reactive for healing OT at the beginning of P3).

It is really possible to save two person alone as Disc. healer.
Easiest solution is to PW:S the first, and penance the second.
But you can also POM the first one, and PW:S the second (if penance is on cd, and preferably in this order, as POM heals after damage and PW:S prevents damage).
You can flash heal one, and use any instant heal (penance / PW:S) on the second. Or flash heal both, but that's more challenging.
And you have pain suppression, in case of real emergency, which is off GCD, and is enough to save one target.

#503 KYA1337

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 05:16 PM

Sorry to mess with your priestly ways, but as a paladin flash of light on A > holy shock on B does the trick.

So Flash Heal the first, and PW:S the second, total time taken: 1.5s (reduced by haste).

#504 Observer

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 10:11 PM

You could also pre-shield a few of the more closely clumped melee throughout the fight since you know there's a chance this will happen (and since even if they don't get frozen, they'll get frost-blasted anyway).

#505 Tweaksys

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 10:36 PM

The volley might take off the shield, leaving the melee with weakened soul removing the possibility of a PWS save. On KT I am conservative with shields on all but tanks.

#506 Kaeltala

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 04:03 AM

So , a blue post said rapture from multiple shields is a bug, at least not intended, will we get enough mana in Ulduar without it ?

#507 twinight

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 04:17 AM

My usual job is to take care of healing tombs and such whenever we've gotten an undying or immortal run.

I actually open with PoM if it's a chained tomb, because odds are very very high that it is going to bounce to a person adjacent in a tomb, and then to the next person...

Once tombs are potentially coming I keep everything off of CD and heal exclusively with flash and greater. On a single tomb I just shield/penance, and on a chain I usually PoM, shield the (then) lowest one, and then penance the third. If it's real sketchy I use pain suppression in there somewhere as a replacement.

#508 Sharajat

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 08:31 AM

So , a blue post said rapture from multiple shields is a bug, at least not intended, will we get enough mana in Ulduar without it ?


The blues are not talking to eachother on this issue at all. It's getting quite ridiculous. I accept there's a certain amount of communication issues that will arise, but cooldowns do not just go away. Someone has to remove them, and for a specific reason.

Today I was getting enough mana as disc, but I think the bugged rapture is currently live (I didn't check with a stopwatch, but I was shielding a ton on the raid for Razorscale, and my mana bar wasn't moving down that fast). I think disc will definitely have to be a little less spammy in its heals, but overall my take is that there's not really a huge issue.

Disc is viable, but I think disc priests want a holy dual spec at the moment, because disc is a very niche healer. The niche is great if there's RNG damage to single targets (shade of Aran style) or huge tank hits very suddenly, but if the fight is an AOE damage fight, or just a consistently hard-hitting boss, disc is going to decline in usefulness.

P.S. I CANNOT track down a Glyph of Penance at the moment, so take this with a grain of salt, as a Glyph of Penance will make Disc better.

#509 xeonio

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 06:16 PM

Have we come up with any new stat weights for 3.1? I've caught up with the posts but haven't seen any listed. I realize crit should be weighted a little higher than it used to be since DA now stacks and maybe lower haste a tad bit (but I think just raising crit some will offset the haste).

#510 TheDoctor

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 07:24 PM

I hope to have a new 3.1 Disc Compendium and a spreadsheet available very shortly.

Generally speaking until I can post full details...

Stat Weights for Output
SP > Haste >= Crit > Int

Haste vs. Crit Rating can be debated... Though my research, testing, and math clearly shows that haste is slightly superior as long as you gain full benefit from the haste. Due to BT it is easy to reach the "soft cap" so less haste is required by Disc overall.... Stacking either haste or crit at the detriment of the other stat is a recipe for lower performance, don't do it. Int is marginally considered as a output stat due to the crit% conversion though it isn't something that you "gear for" because it is on everything you will use. I note Int here because it shouldn't be overlooked that Int does improve your output & regen for thorough discussion.

Stat Weights for Regen
Int > Spi >= Mp5

If you plan to use the same gear as Holy spec on occassion choose Spirit. From the gear currently known there aren't many choices where you can actively choose to not gain Spi in favor of Mp5 so it isn't a huge issue just yet. Though for Disc specifically there isn't a overwhelming reason to take Spi over Mp5.

#511 xeonio

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 10:31 PM

Yea, the general weighting I understand. I am of the school that believes haste > crit as well (but you can't ignore one for the other).

* Spellpower: 0.60
* Spirit: 0.40
* Intellect: 0.84
* Crit: 0.13
* Haste: 0.42
* MP5: 1.00

Are the current stat weights I'm using. The changes to Divine Aegis though definitely warrant an increase in the weight of crit.

Those weights are obtained from dwarfpriest.com. They are pre3.1 (before anyone asks and haven't been updated in awhile as she disappeared from her blog several months ago).

Will much appreciate your post when it happens. Would u consider posting your weights early? That way you don't feel bogged down and required to get a spreadsheet available, someone else could even help you out in that area.

Thanks,
Xeonio

Stat Weight Source

#512 Seacove

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 10:49 PM

Has anyone taken a look at the 4 piece tier bonus for healing? It grants 250 Spellpower for 5 seconds after casting power word shield. With no cool down on our shields it seems Disc can almost keep this buff up forever.

Just wondering if from what others have seen so far is if the tier pieces are viable for Disc specs now. I know that the tier 7.5 pieces were largely ignored by disc players in favor of better non tier pieces.

#513 Evolve

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Posted 17 April 2009 - 12:08 AM

I am currently specced holy to help my guild out, is there anyone that could take charge of the disc compendium as I'm not really suited for it anymore. I don't play the spec activly enough.

#514 exschwizer

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Posted 17 April 2009 - 02:22 PM

I apologise if this question was already answered. Does anybody know if the extra crit-chance of Improved Flash Heal on targets below 50% health is calculated at the beginning of the cast, or when Flash Heal hits the target?
We had a discussion about efficiency of GHeal vs. FHeal on MT-duty combined with a Holy-Paladin and the question came up.

#515 TheDoctor

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Posted 17 April 2009 - 02:37 PM

I am currently specced holy to help my guild out, is there anyone that could take charge of the disc compendium as I'm not really suited for it anymore. I don't play the spec activly enough.


I will post a new thread with one Saturday afternoon.

Yea, the general weighting I understand. I am of the school that believes haste > crit as well (but you can't ignore one for the other).

* Spellpower: 0.60
* Spirit: 0.40
* Intellect: 0.84
* Crit: 0.13
* Haste: 0.42
* MP5: 1.00


These are old... Currently I have worked a spreadsheet that weights Output stats and Regen stats seperately that gives you the opportunity to tune more accurately to what you desire. For that I use something close too (will update numbers tonight)

Throughput
* Spellpower: 1.0
* Intellect: 0.16
* Crit: 0.48
* Haste: 0.59

The spreadsheet rates regen stats on a per Mp5 value and ranks every piece of gear for total regen contribution to a total regen. Don't remember the numbers off hand.

I will post the spreadsheet Saturday as well for those that would like to use/critique/contribute to my improvement of it.

If you are set in the ways of using one combined stat weighting score... Please check the new Disc Compendium.


@Tier 8.25 question - Initially it will be worth it because 250 SP at no item budget is pretty solid. Though the hard mode gear can exceed the set bonus value as you start to stack more of the higher quality items, and what point this becomes the case is the question.

I apologise if this question was already answered. Does anybody know if the extra crit-chance of Improved Flash Heal on targets below 50% health is calculated at the beginning of the cast, or when Flash Heal hits the target?
We had a discussion about efficiency of GHeal vs. FHeal on MT-duty combined with a Holy-Paladin and the question came up.


That is a good question.. I believe it as at the completion of the cast that everything gets calculated. This would be something to look into though for sure.

#516 Benjamin

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Posted 17 April 2009 - 11:29 PM

That is a good question.. I believe it as at the completion of the cast that everything gets calculated. This would be something to look into though for sure.


It is indeed calculated at the time the heal lands. There's some gray area in the calculations of "what hits first" in terms of things like this triggering and exact health percentages, but the point of talents like this is that if when your heal lands and someone IS low, it'll be a bigger heal. It won't help you win the healing meter, but it'll help you land the heals that count.

On the larger topic, I'm still more of a believer in stacking mostly crit for a disc build. With PWS+Borrowed time, a pretty good chunk of your cast time heals should be done with huge haste already -- so much so that it seems to me that sacrificing divine aegis and inspiration uptime for it seems like a bad option.

25% additional armor is a lot for a tank in these hard hitting Ulduar fights, and being able to throw a Penance and have ( 1 - (chance to not crit 3 times in a row) ) = ( 1 - (.65 * .65 * .65) ) = 72% chance or so of proccing inspiration off of one penance is really the most significant buff the preist is bringing to the tank healing arena. Adding some Shields and Divine Aegis absorbs into the mix, and you get an idea of how the priest can leave the "healing meter" healing to the Holy Light turrets.

The way that I see the new disc fitting into the tank healing game is sort of like the way resto druids were for "additional help" on tank healing through most of the Burning Crusade. You still have plenty of time to help shield, spot heal, and do some group healing when needed even, while still helping out on one or all of the tanks -- a great way to heal 2 tanks through a lot of damage right now is to put a holy paladin on each beaconing the other tank, and a disc priest shielding, catching low health situations with shields and penance, bouncing prayer of mending between the two tanks, and keeping inspiration up on both tanks.

As a longtime healer, I'm pretty excited to be playing what feels like a really... different and unique healing play style, and it's fun to experiment with something that isn't so well refined and isn't so obvious how to utilize is pretty fun.

#517 exschwizer

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 04:25 PM

It is indeed calculated at the time the heal lands. There's some gray area in the calculations of "what hits first" in terms of things like this triggering and exact health percentages, but the point of talents like this is that if when your heal lands and someone IS low, it'll be a bigger heal. It won't help you win the healing meter, but it'll help you land the heals that count.

Thank you. It seems I was misled by my guild-mates who claimed (purely on base of anecdotal evidence) that heals will have reduced effect if the cast occured when the recipient of the heal was under an MS-like effect, rather than during its' landing. I should have doubted that statement in the first place. I guess that swings bulk-healing rather in favor of FHeal, than GHeal.




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