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3.1 PTR

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#21 Kyai


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Posted 24 February 2009 - 11:32 PM

While the GS glyph is interesting, I still think it will require complicated UI watching to know if your GS cooldown got reset or not. It seems like almost more of a headache than it's worth. While It is definitely a nice one, I don't think it's worth giving up Flash Heal, PoH, or CoH glyphs for.

I'm really very interested in the GS glyph. With a 60s cooldown I could see the option of using it as a throughput booster. I'll need to give it a go, but I could see it replacing my PoH glyph.

#22 Belac_K


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Posted 24 February 2009 - 11:34 PM

Why did they add a Hymn of Hope glyph after they removed the spell? I guess I missed an update or something, but both those statements are right on the front page of MMO-Champion.

#23 Althor


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Posted 25 February 2009 - 12:12 AM

I'm netless at home currently so I haven't been able to test this for myself yet, but reports from shadowpriest.com indicate that:
1) The DoT crits are indeed only at 150% not 200% which is either a nerf or a bug.
2) The old 1% crit == 1% DPS increase on DoTs is apparently still there which is obviously a bug.

However at present with these bugs, it's a buff overall though obviously one that won't last.

Also: Glyph of Mind Sear.....+5 yard radius on Mind Sear? That's going to cause some QQ I imagine. Sure, in a nicely controlled AoE pull everything will be pulled in close enough for all of the AoEers to hit the targets but I'm sure we all know that in practise this doesn't always happen. (Will make it harder to avoid breaking CC's mind you). A 30 yard diameter AoE zone is pretty damned incredible.

That said, they gave Rogues a Glyph of Fan of Knives that boosts it's DPS by 20%.....Because obviously FoK was underpowered. ;P

#24 chase


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Posted 25 February 2009 - 12:19 AM

edit: Apparently the glyph was not data mined.

#25 Akka


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Posted 25 February 2009 - 12:39 AM

What I see being the most notable, is that OO5S regen being cut nearly in half, the removal of clearcast, and I5S regen being able to be pushed up to 75%, spirit-based regen will now act nearly as raw mp5.

Getting OO5S will now net very small gains. Taking into account that you have to wait five second before reaping any reward, that the rewards will be barely one third more than Holy Concentration-buffed regen and the risks incurred by making such healing pause... I'm not even sure it will have a real benefit to get OO5S now during a fight.

That's a pretty huge change in holy priest gameplay. Basically a 180° change to the whole class, going from OO5S-based regen kept on maximizing non-casting time, to IFS-based regen kept on maximizing crit casts.
Wonder how veteran priests are feeling about this.
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#26 Starfire


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Posted 25 February 2009 - 05:04 AM

I have no issues with not optimizing OFSR time. I take issues with the general way the game seems to be going for healers. To use Nidaba's term they seem to want us to take 'measured' approach.

I like to call it "conservative". TOO Conservative. It seems they REALLY want us to do things as a healing team. They want us to not heal the guy that has a HoT on him, let the HoT heal him up.

Seems like they have the general opposite expectation for healers than they do for dpsers. Dpsers try their hardest, always. Healers will have to hold back.

Everyone should start from the same place and rise based on their abilities, desires, and schedule. No one plays MMOs to *be* powerful, they play MMOs to *become* powerful. It's the journey, stupid. The rarer loot is, the more cherished it is when you get it, but only so long as there is a reasonable expectation to get it. The rarer loot is, the better it feels when you kill a boss or when $AWESOME_TRINKET drops.

#27 Solifer


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Posted 25 February 2009 - 05:13 AM

Oh well. I'm one of those "old-school-priests" out there. I'm paying more attention to mana-effeciency as to HPS. I was quite happy about those 2 clearcasts (SoL and iHC), getting me out of the 5s rule as that's what priests should do to get manaregen. I think I rember those words from a bluepost during BC time. Not to mention healing rotation at the beginning.

I guess as I don t have to watch for clearcasts any longer, holy might become a little "easier". Overall, I can t await the results from the TC in this forum (missed the time to copy my char, duh) as I got some concerns with the new/revamped talents.

* Serendipity (Tier 8 ) changed to: When you heal with Binding Heal or Flash Heal, the cast time of your next Greater Heal or Prayer of Healing spell is reduced by 6/12/20%. Stacks up to 3 times. Lasts 20 sec.

This looks a bit weird to me. 3 Stacks? Mh, -60% casttime on PoH = 1.2 sec, GH = 1.0 sec. That s allready way unter the GCD, even without haste. I don t see the sense in that as you can get down to GCD with 2 Stacks and some haste. Guess 5 stacks would give us another "oh-shot"-button, making it OP - tho I d like that *g* Dunno, could need some tweaking here.

* Holy Concentration (Tier 7) changed to: Your mana regeneration is increased by 16/32/50% for 8 sec after you critically heal with Flash Heal, Greater Heal, Binding Heal or Renew. (Previously had a chance to grant clearcasting effect)

Renew? Is this an error? Did they change renew? Or would this just happen if you take empowered renew (on the initial heal)? I hope it's the 2nd point, but I could bet it s the 3rd one *g* should be mentioned in the tooltip... Anyway, 75% infight regen (or 150% outfight for 3 sec...) sounds nice, hope to see some numbers on this talent from TC-players.

* *New Talent* Empowered Renew, Tier 9, 3 point talent - Your Renew spell gains an additional 5/10/15% of your bonus healing effects, and your Renew will instantly heal the target for 5/10/15% of the total periodic effect.

I like this one and I bet some others do so as well. With 3 points it s a ~20% boost to renew - and respecting HC, even with a crit component. If I got my numbers correctly, the initial heal should be a 1k heal (@2k addheal). Not that much, but it's a 6th tick on renew with the ability to proc HC and SoL - fine.

* Test of Faith (Tier 9) now increases healing by 4/8/12% on friendly targets at or below 50% health.

Instead of 6% crit we get 6% increased healing. Looking at the crit proc talents we got, I d prefer 6% crit over 6% healing, from the target s point of view ("I m going down!!!!11), the increased healing is better as it will be always there and not just a chance to get more healing. As I m focused on raidhealing I don t care too much about this.

Finally, my raiding spec would look like this:


No improved healing? Right, as raid heal I barely use GH and with the changed HC I don t even have a clearcast for it.

No test of faith? Could put 1 point from lolwell in here, but that s it. I prefer the other talents over ToF and I don t have enough points to get it.

Can t await the next PTR-update with talent changes so I can build a new talent spec - that s far more interesting than running around in the Bank of Dalaran :o

#28 Moonkai


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Posted 25 February 2009 - 08:51 AM

Adding to the Disc regen nerf: seems like Divine Aegis no longer benefits from Rapture as well, which leads to crit rating no longer being used as a regen stat.

#29 Malrazor


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Posted 25 February 2009 - 09:00 AM

With the changes to Holy Concentration, I would like to know if it's still recommended to take Surge of Light.
Granted, if Surge of Light procs, that means you've already gotten the 50% increased mana regeneration but that also means that your next Flash Heal will not be able to proc Holy Concentration again.

#30 Venaliter


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Posted 25 February 2009 - 09:15 AM

With the changes to Holy Concentration, I would like to know if it's still recommended to take Surge of Light.
Granted, if Surge of Light procs, that means you've already gotten the 50% increased mana regeneration but that also means that your next Flash Heal will not be able to proc Holy Concentration again.

According to the current numbers I've seen, HC procs in 3.1 are worth about 300 mana over 8 seconds. Flash heal costs 600; Plus, SoL doesnt mean you can't crit again over those next 8 seconds, just you can't crit with that particular flash heal. Pretty safe to say SoL is still one of the top talents in the tree. Take it. Use it!

I'd like to know how SoL generated procs interact with the new serendipity.

#31 cloudscraper


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Posted 25 February 2009 - 09:31 AM

@Tyrlir: yes, yours is probably the best approach to the calc.

In the end, the new DP seems to compensate more than decently for the overall loss of DPS thanks to new-Shadowform.

I don't have a connection good enough to DL PTR's client, but :

has anyone tested if IF works for SW:P, and, if it does, if the 25% crit chance bonus is retained through P&S refreshes?
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#32 Incoherence


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Posted 25 February 2009 - 09:33 AM

I'd like to know how SoL generated procs interact with the new serendipity.

SoL procs do give you a stack of Serendipity. Also, Binding Heal gives two stacks (although the second appears to be slightly delayed); this may be a bug or just buggy.

#33 Elimbras


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Posted 25 February 2009 - 12:10 PM

Meditation rant:
I can't think of another class where ALL specs go 13 into one specific tree. Usually those are Tier 1 talents (Shaman go for Int in Enhancement tree, now Paladins will go for the +heal in the Prot tree, Warriors go for +crit in Fury tree, Hunters for +damage in SV tree, etc.) So all specs might dip only 5 points in one specific tree rather than 13.

PvE Hunters do.
Until 3.0, they even had to take 20 points in marksman.
Now, they can reduce it to at least 11, and 13 is often better (only some bm builds don't take the 13 points in marksman).

These talents seems pretty mandatory (5% crit chance, conversion of 1 int -> 1 RAP, focus regen for your pet when the hunt crits, and "eventually" bonus damage to yellow crits "which some bm hunters partially skip).

Guess that all dps dk takes also 10+ points in blood.

11 points in resto are mandatory for any PvE (and PvP I suspect) druid spec. But that's also partially for a lack of other interesting points (boomkin).

Please note also that :
1/ Holy tree is no interest for SP ;
2/ Shadow tree is near no interest for healing priest (yes, there is the blood tap effect, and the reduced shadowfiend cd).
So, we all also need a secondary tree to put points.

#34 Athmet


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Posted 25 February 2009 - 12:33 PM


I've never been on PTR but always eager to hear from people who went there and tested new stuff. My concern here is that I see a lot of numbers regarding regen for Disc Priest but not any actual testing in Naxxramas for fights like Patchwerk or in Heroics instance with Achievement purpose.

From my point of view, the actual regen for Disc Priest is to much. I barely use my Shadowfiend and I gemed my gear for haste. Not even talking about Mana pots that I never use.

At the end if 3.1 is "forcing" me to use Shadowfiend almost during each boss fight with sometimes a mana pots, I wouldn't see it as a problem if on the other hand I'm still doing my job right.

So I'm not sure how it is already on the PTR, but could we have some numbers/feedback from runs made in Naxxramas for exemple ? (while waiting for Ulduar to open for some new boss)

#35 Cadfael


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Posted 25 February 2009 - 12:38 PM

There's only a few people having their chars copied on the PTR servers so it will take a while yet until a sizeable portion of people actually get to raid stuff.

For example when I logged into the PTR last night before 1am, a /who 80 returned about 20 logged in chars. Needless to say, no queue to log in what so ever and no lag in Dalaran made for a nice change. It's just too early yet.
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#36 Mokhtar


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Posted 25 February 2009 - 01:02 PM

There are still some issues to solve with DoT critting, mainly I'm thinking :
- Is DoT crit rate determined at the moment of the tick ? when casted ?
- How does MF refresh of SW:P factor in ?
Mainly I'm thinking of those scenario : if I cast SW:P at the beginning of a fight (read : when raid crit buffs/debuffs are still not up), do I need to refresh it when the raid crit buffs/debuffs are up ?

#37 Mearis


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Posted 25 February 2009 - 01:31 PM

Here is the thread on euro forums asking about shadow power:

World of Warcraft (en) Forums -> Shadow Priest DoT Damage nerf / Shadow Power

since the euro forums are a garbage dump ignore by developers, if someone could ask the same question on the us forums it would be greatly appreciated - stress the fact that while the DP buff covers the gap at current gear levels, this makes crit a completely throwaway stat for shadowpriests and forces us to stack damage and ignore everything else again.

#38 Elenvin


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Posted 25 February 2009 - 02:31 PM

I don't think the Darkness move will change shadow specs much - here's what I'm looking at:


Basically, the only change is that 3 points had to come from somewhere to take the Imp DP talent. I chose Veiled Shadows and Inner Focus. To be honest, in a PvE situation, those were both very mediocre talents anyway. I never have mana issues - the only reason I ever had points in those talents in the first place was because I had nowhere else to put them (and more threat reduction for raiding is almost completely useless).

While I agree with this in general, I believe that the new Shadowfiend upgrade and forcing us to make choices between talents, might end up killing Dispersion in PvE. Of course it's nice to have an "oh shit" button, but already now is dispersion a fair deal worse then a good timed fiend (6 seconds vs. 1 global cooldown downtime).

That said, I would rather look at something like this. Assuming the mana will continue not be an issue, one might consider moving the two points from Veiled Shadows into Improved Vampiric Embrace.

#39 constantius


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Posted 25 February 2009 - 05:02 PM

Extrapolate from the changes to Bloodlust to realize that there are going to be ~ 8+ minute fights in Ulduar. Likely 10+. From that, realize that any mana return talent you have, especially one you can use in down-time with no dps loss, is a good talent to take.

I'm hoping they figure out what they're doing with Hymn of Hope and fix it so I can actually use it in situations like that. If they buff it enough, it'll be even worth it for shadow priests (*gasp*) to use it in down-times, and then Inner Focus back into Shadowform.

#40 Désespoir



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Posted 25 February 2009 - 05:10 PM

the glyph of hymn of hope seems to be quite attractive, but I don't know if it is worth the slot.

It supposes that Hymn of Hope will not be removed as it has been announced.

Glyph of Hymn of Hope - Thottbot: World of Warcraft

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