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SimulationCraft for Warlocks (4.0.3a numbers at 80 and 85)


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#3021 VoidStar

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 12:24 PM

In my opinion, the biggest problem with multi-target situations is not that the model only partially supports them, but the difficulty of deciding on something useful to model.

Other than Wrath-era trash, when you're in a situation where there are multiple targets there's usually some reason why some of them must be damaged more quickly than others and without being very fight-specific, Simcraft isn't going to be able to help with that. You also have the problem that adds may be very short-lived (which drastically changes the worth of DoT effects) multiple targets interact strangely with Decimation-like effects and some spells may only be present on one target. It can be difficult to predict what important debuffs are likely to be present on multiple targets. There's also the issue that you can't control what your other party members will do: if they choose to single-target an add down then it'll live only a fraction as long as if they uniformly AoE all targets.

If you're in a situation where you have multiple targets without a priority then it's probably not worth worrying too much and a simple rule of thumb will do.

I guess you could run a simulation where you just spam an AoE and multiply up its DPET for your number of targets (assuming you're under the AoE damage cap) and see where that overtakes the average DPET of whatever spells you feel you can apply to that number of targets, but even that glosses over a lot of the variables.

#3022 Sephirah

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 01:19 AM

Does the last version (403-2) miss the option to calculate mastery scaling?
I see "Plot DPS per mastery rating" under Plots, but no "Analyze mastery" under Scaling, so the simulation results give a value of 0.0000.

#3023 whi

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 03:59 AM

Does the last version (403-2) miss the option to calculate mastery scaling?
I see "Plot DPS per mastery rating" under Plots, but no "Analyze mastery" under Scaling, so the simulation results give a value of 0.0000.

It does, and as far as I know it's been fixed already, so the option should be there in the next release.

As a workaround you can add this to your overrides tab:
Spoiler


#3024 Zakalwe

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 08:02 AM

OP has been updated with the latest results. The main change is that we by default no longer add any special lag penalty after GCD-bound spells, since you can queue up your next spell during the GCD now. Destruction in particular gained a lot from this.

#3025 Rushi

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 03:52 PM

Currently the sim has both Affliction specs providing nearly the same DPS and I would like to determine which spec scales best targeting haste as the primary secondary stat and of course int and spell power before secondary stats.
Both Affliction specs favor Haste as the best secondary stat so assuming you target Haste in your gear, doing some simple math with the normalized scale factors shows that Affliction should scale better. If you target Mastery as the second best secondary stat Affliction should always be better than Aff_drain. Except that as I understand it haste has a cap where mastery does not currently.

(Haste_Aff) - (Haste_AffDrain) compared to (Mastery_Aff) - (Mastery_Affdrain)

Affliction gets +0.0736 more DPS per point of Haste
Aff_Drain gets + 0.0662 more DPS per point of Mastery

My understanding of Haste is a bit cloudy but at some point, perhaps not reachable at T11 but with raid buffs and procs I believe it is, shadowbolt will reach a maximum casting speed @ 50% haste from my understanding. Will this cause the Scale factor for haste in the Affliction profile to fall below the scale factor for haste in the Aff_Drain profile? With Eradication and Imp Soul Fire does that mean that @ 15% haste + 20% eradication + 15% imp soul fire shadowbolt is being casted as fast as possible and therefor the Scale Factor for haste is lower at that point? If this is the case how much lower is the scale factor and how does that affect the scaling of Affliction v Aff_drain? Another consideration is at that point I am assuming Glyph of UA is going to be useless and we would want to switch to Glyph of Corruption?

Finally as an aside with Aff_drain when nightfall procs do you immediately cast the instant shadowbolt in the middle of a Drain Life or wait for the Drain Life to complete and then cast the instant shadowbolt?

#3026 ~Thalia~

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 05:08 PM

Gcd caps at 50% haste, being reduced to 1 sec.

But for a 2.5 sec cast to reach the gcd (theorical haste hard cap for SB), you'll need 150% haste which is of course impossible to reach. It would be 4918.5 haste rating at level 80.

Edited for clarity regarding wasniahC 's post below

#3027 wasniahC

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 11:05 PM

Gcd caps at 50% haste, being reduced to 1 sec.

But for a 2.5 sec cast to reach the gcd (theorical haste hard cap), you'll need 150% haste which is of course impossible to reach. It would be 4918.5 haste rating at level 80.


Even then, it will continue to boost the DPE of dots, so haste will continue to provide dps - Likely not the highest DPS, at that point, but a hard cap doesn't really exist as such any more, with the change for haste with dots

#3028 Enigmafury

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 12:10 AM

I noticed a comment on wowhead about Dark Intent
Dark Intent - Spell - World of Warcraft
And the 3 ones below it...so if we aim for max personal dps(not rdps) it would seem that stacking DI is a good idea and it will boost our dps.

Also hear a rumor that if you had like 5 locks in a raid and all of them drop a DI on 1 lock, that lock would gain 15%(or 15,92%) haste, is it true?

#3029 tresextas

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 03:20 AM

It's modeled as if the buff were constantly up and fully stacked to 3. I could also have modeled it dynamically by having the warlock actors target each other with the spell, but I wanted to avoid the effects that would have on DPS, particularly during scale factor generation.


Not to nitpick, but isn't this an unrealistic scenario that the buff will be up 100% of the time with all 3 stacks? This is concerning dark intent, the above comment helped me remember this.

#3030 Saufsoldat

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 06:06 AM

Not to nitpick, but isn't this an unrealistic scenario that the buff will be up 100% of the time with all 3 stacks? This is concerning dark intent, the above comment helped me remember this.


It depends on your raid composition, but if you have at least one warlock, resto druid, fire mage, boomkin, unholy dk, or spriest you will have close to 100% uptime. Other classes/specs can probably also provide you with enough dots/hots to grant a decent uptime, those are just the first ones that come to mind.

Since it's been a while that the beta was out we cannot say with 100% certainty if two warlocks giving each other dark intent will stack when cata goes live.

#3031 Jasna

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 08:46 AM

Just looking at the demonology priority order. Soulburn is only limited by if metamorphosis is up, but you can cast metamorphosis during heroism / bloodlust so there might be a soulburn wasted for the demonology profile.

I assume soulburn is capped at 3 per fight, but not sure if its been tested if its even worth doing the soulburn / soul harvest trick before combat.

Is there anyway in simcraft to increase how many soul shards we have, like have it set to 4 for this trick, or maybe unlimited amount that would be limited to the fight duration, which would assume there was some add that you could drain soul to get more shards.

The dps increase would probably be minimal anyway.

#3032 Berthold

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 09:01 AM

which would assume there was some add that you could drain soul to get more shards.

The dps increase would probably be minimal anyway.

The "standard" add does not give you a soul shard when killed, neither through drain soul or shadow burn, so you can only gain it in multiboss fights. Having a fourth or more shards for the fight means an instant Soulfire instead of a full cast at best. This gives you ~one more filler spill to cast, so thats ~15.000 damage (incinerate as destro) over 300 seconds -> 50 dps. That is an increase of 0.2%.

Obviously doing this in game is a good idea, but I wouldn't suggest changing simcraft for that. The increase is marginal, it does not change the ranking of the specs and it does not change the scalefactors in any meaningful way.

Off-Topic: Less than four days.. yay :-)

#3033 Envý

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 09:08 AM

Pretty much every add I tried gives me shards. The LK Adds (even Vile Spirits), Halion, Saurfang, Valithria...
I have yet to see an add that does not give shards.

#3034 Jasna

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 09:23 AM

I haven't raided for a while, but last time I was in ICC I was getting shards from shambling horrors and Raging Spirits, which could have changed which is why I was wondering. Not many fights are that long. I also recall a fight on beta that I was getting them back on, but I forget now since its been down a while now.

Also I was just wondering if there was a way I could test it myself with simcraft rather than updating the original post with this as I assumed it would be ~50dps at best per extra soulburn.

I see in the warlock file there is a resource for 3 shards, haven't looked to see if it gets decremented anywhere though.

#3035 Opustjej

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 04:04 PM

To Zakalwe;

Wouldnt it be better to itemize the demo and destro profiles so they reach 50% haste and get 8 ticks from Immolate?
With Imp SF, Dark intent and 5% raidbuff we "only" need 2639 haste to get that extra tick and that will probably be a huge boost to those profiles? I am terrible at simcraft myself but played around with the gear availible and with reforging I had no problem finding some gearcombos with both hit cap and 2639 haste. Considering the poor 4-set bonus for destro we can focus on obtaining gear with haste and hit and just go for legs and shoulders as T11. I assume the BiS lists will look very different for destro and affli due to scale factors.

Also a general question about Immolate and Imp SF; We need to have the Imp SF buff up before applying Immo to get that extra tick correct? Its our current haste when we apply Immo that counts for the whole duration?

#3036 wasniahC

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 05:14 PM

He's said it a few times, the gear profiles haven't been modified - They're just the premade 372 set I believe, with the same reforges, for hit?

He's going to come back to it and change the gear sets iirc
ISF - all dots have all stats recalculated for every refresh


On the subject of dark intent, I have heard that while the haste buff stacks, the +damage buff does not; i.e while a lock with 5 dark intent buffs would get the 1.03^5 haste, it would only get +9% periodic damage, and a lot of those dark intent periodic damage buffs would be wasted - It just isn't worth doing, because of this.


MOD EDIT: Discussion continues in the NEW Simcraft thread here: http://elitistjerks....aclysm_edition/




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