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SimulationCraft for Warlocks (4.0.3a numbers at 80 and 85)


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#41 Zakalwe

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 10:48 PM

How many affliction debuffs are assumed for the calculation of drain soul damage in the simulation of Warlock_T8_54_00_17 ?

12. In general, these simulations model "ideal" raid environments with all possible buffs.

#42 Costus

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 10:51 PM

for non-hit capped locks, taking the extra 3% from surpression, would you go with an imp spec until you have the gear to pull those 3 points back?
something like this?:
3/38/30

any ideas? could you run this through the new simcraft?

I was thinking then for glyphs:
- imp
- incinerate
? immolate or life tap to capitalize the t7 bonus...

#43 Eeks

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 10:58 PM

Just a note on the affliction cast sequence... Not sure where it fits in anymore but you don't have a separate function for nightfall procs

#44 MagisterLudi

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 11:02 PM

Perhaps some thought might be invested in the following spec, or some a variant thereof;

http://talent.mmo-ch...05&version=9614

Glyphed CoA/Immolate/Felguard

Seems many people have arrived at :

SB --> SoulFire --> SB --> SoulFire

as the optimal rotation sub 35%, while skipping the re-application of DoTs.

Perhaps, sub 35% corruption may be skipped, resulting in:
Agony (for Molton Core) --> Immolate --> Incin --> SoulFire --> Incin --> Soulfire --> refresh/repeat

As I am not certain of the 3.1 coefficients/DPCT, it may be better to forgo Immo if being maintained by another warlock.

I will attempt to get some Simcraft data/wws on dummies/Dr.Boom (not sure if those methods will yield clean data w/ a host of debuffs applied to the target by other folks.

Perhaps someone has already explored this avenue? I greatly appreciate your feedback, and the effort everyone is putting forth.


*EDIT* Would seem foolish in retrospect not to switch out Glyph of Agony with Glyph of Incinerate.
*EDIT2* For clarity.

#45 Kzaranagax

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 11:04 PM

12 affliction debuffs is a realistic number with 3 warlocks whom 2 are affliction, but the "ideal" is 15 for a max bonus of 60% on the drain soul damage, isn't it ?

Does the simulation on pre-patch data showing 55/0/16-DG as the best spec use 12 or 15 debuffs, and in this last case, could you provide us simulation of affliction damage with doomguard and maximized DS ?

#46 Zakalwe

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 11:10 PM

12 is the baseline number set by the optimal_raid parameter, but it does take into account the effects cast by the warlock(s) being simulated as well, so it would rarely/never dip below 15.

I'm guessing it was done this way to make sure a priority list that dropped all dots below 25% would be properly penalized for it.

#47 brymortis

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 11:16 PM

I've been looking at similar spec, but I'm not sure that's the optimal way to go about it. Depending on how much crit we end up with, Empowered Imp might be a greater DPS boost than Molten Core. Something along the lines of this: http://talent.mmo-ch...00&version=9614 I'm not sure about that last point going into F&B, but I don't see anywhere else to put it that gives any form of DPS boost.


Yeah I was just pondering it since it seems nice to have MC + Pyroclasm up at the same time. What if you put the 4 points from destro into 4/5 master demonology?

#48 dahaliana

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 11:53 PM

Perhaps some thought might be invested in the following spec, or some a variant thereof;


You are on the right track - Decimation is overpowered, and currently on the PTR results in 1.3s cast Soul Fires that cost no shards. With the right amount of haste and spell travel time, you can alternate your Incinerate / Shadowbolt and Soul Fires one after the other.

http://talent.mmo-ch...00&version=9626

This build, or something like it, I suspect is going to put up massive numbers. Conflag / Decimation build.

Go all the way to Decimation in Demonology, picking up 1 point in molten core (or more, depending on preference) and all the imp improving talents.

Go all the way to Conflag in Destruction, picking up the fire improving talents.

Glyphs would be Incinerate, Conflag, and either Life Tap, Imp, or Immolate.

#49 Morrigan

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 12:16 AM

Zakalwe:
Did you change something on the SVN since you last updated your first posting here?
I keep getting higher numbers for both Felguard specs (like +80 dps for 41/30 and +65 for 56/15) while the others are more or less identical.

Concerning the meta spec:
- Glyph of Meta and Glyph of Shadow Bolt are about equal with a slight edge for SB, at least in the ~280 seconds simulation
- 3/3 Imp Demonic Tactics and 2/3 Molten Core is better than 2/3 3/3, not only for your personal DPS but also for DP uptime

On another note, how exactly is Decimation being handled by SimCraft?

FIXME: This assumes a 1-second travel time on the triggering spell
p -> buffs_decimation = s -> sim -> current_time + 1;

As has been pointed out, you can utilize a SB-SF rotation if you stand at max range and have enough haste to cast your SF during the time it takes your bolt to reach the target, but I guess this currently doesn't work in SimCraft because 1 second is too short?

#50 Lurker37

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 12:27 AM

Zak, I have two questions regarding your Meta/Ruin Profile (assuming the profile in your original post is current)

warlock=Warlock_T8_00_56_15
level=80
talents=http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...0&version=9614
actions=flask,type=frost_wyrm/food,type=tender_shoveltusk_steak/fire_stone/fel_armor/summon_pet,felguard
actions+=/curse_of_doom/demonic_empowerment/metamorphosis,immolation=1
actions+=/soul_fire,decimation=1/corruption/immolate/shadow_bolt/life_tap
Caster_T7_Base_Gear.simcraft
enchant_crit_rating=-75
enchant_hit_rating=+75
glyph_metamorphosis=1
glyph_felguard=1
glyph_immolate=1


I'm not clear on why a build with 3 points in Molten Core is using CoDoom instead of CoA for MC procs. The build is obviously trying to maximise MC uptime, so why forgo the chances to proc from CoA?

By the same token, how much does Demonic Pact uptime suffer from the missing point in Improved Demonic Tactics?

#51 Morrigan

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 12:47 AM

I'm not clear on why a build with 3 points in Molten Core is using CoDoom instead of CoA for MC procs. The build is obviously trying to maximise MC uptime, so why forgo the chances to proc from CoA?

Since you're using Shadow Bolt as your main nuke, the MC uptime doesn't get much higher from using CoA, so CoD is more damage in the end.

By the same token, how much does Demonic Pact uptime suffer from the missing point in Improved Demonic Tactics?

3/3 Imp Demonic Tactics should be the better choice, indeed.

#52 Morrigan

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 01:26 AM

Found a bug, Glyph of Imp is not working at all (in the latest version from the trunk)
sc_warlock.cpp, line 534 ... seems like you forgot the parentheses ;)

Edit: with this fixed and Imp glyph instead of CB glyph, 5_13_53 gains ~100 dps.
Edit2: it seems that this bug also had the effect that Improved Imp and Empowered Imp were not being calculated correctly, making all imp-using specs a bit lower than they should have been.

#53 Kalku

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 01:45 AM

You should take corruption out of the destro cycle and see how it does. Destro doesn't have molten core anymore, and corr is lower DPSC than incinerate, so it should be a buff.

#54 Morrigan

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 02:37 AM

You are on the right track - Decimation is overpowered, and currently on the PTR results in 1.3s cast Soul Fires that cost no shards. With the right amount of haste and spell travel time, you can alternate your Incinerate / Shadowbolt and Soul Fires one after the other.

http://talent.mmo-ch...00&version=9626

This build, or something like it, I suspect is going to put up massive numbers. Conflag / Decimation build.

You're right, I've tried everything and ... here I present to you the currently highest DPS spec: 0/40/31 with Imp, Conflag und Immolate glyphs (yes, the new Imp glyph is ~20 dps higher than the Incinerate glyph)

reaches ~6200 DPS in SimCraft, and that is with a somewhat unclean Decimation implementation (I don't think it makes use of the max range trick, but then again they probably are gonna change that anyway).

Edit: due to Conflag bugfix, not true anymore! See first posting for recent charts.

warlock=Warlock_T8_00_40_31
level=80
talents=http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warlock=052032052101310510000000000000000000000000000000000000033200301135112530131200000&glyph=000000000000&version=9614
actions=flask,type=frost_wyrm/food,type=tender_shoveltusk_steak/fire_stone/fel_armor/summon_pet,imp
actions+=/demonic_empowerment/conflagrate/soul_fire,decimation=1/curse_of_agony/corruption/immolate/incinerate/life_tap
Caster_T7_Base_Gear.simcraft
enchant_crit_rating=-75
enchant_hit_rating=+75
glyph_imp=1
glyph_immolate=1
glyph_conflagrate=1



#55 Zakalwe

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 04:29 AM

Yeah simcraft doesn't currently model spell travel time, so I had to fake it. I can change the 1 second to 1.4 or whatever is more accurate.

But regardless of that, there's actually a different bug right now which is causing Soul Fire to be used even less. I'll get that fixed and update my initial post ASAP.

#56 Mystearica

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 04:38 AM

Could you try testing Fire Meta/Ruin? I assume Glyphs would be Incinerate, Felguard, & Metamorphisis or Immolate.

http://talent.mmo-ch...00&version=9614

or

http://talent.mmo-ch...00&version=9614

#57 Abominatus_DMF

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 06:03 AM

You should take corruption out of the destro cycle and see how it does. Destro doesn't have molten core anymore, and corr is lower DPSC than incinerate, so it should be a buff.


Of course, Corruption does contribute to 2pcT7, but it's DPCT is just terrible.

In fact, CoA is only marginally higher DPCT than Incinerate as well (according to your breakdown), even with 2/2 Improved Curse of Agony. Without those two points, I think it's actually inferior. Given that Improved Curse of Agony wasn't the greatest talent investment in the first place in terms of DPS per point (in non-affliction builds), it seems like a talent better left untaken.

That leads me to think that you could drop CoA and Corr from the destro rotation entirely, take the 5 points out of affliction (if hitcapped) and stick them into SL/ISL without losing DPS (slight reduction in Lifetap time from ISL). You get a little more survivability and a decent raid buff for little to no cost.

Also, wouldn't Glyph of Immolate be superior for Deep Destruction than Glyph of Chaos Bolt?

Slightly off-topic question: Is a second point in ISL even remotely worth it? If my maths is right, the uptime on the replenishment with 1/2 ISL would already be around 80%.

#58 calderstrake

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 06:49 AM

I hate to say this, but I think UP will need to be moved to lower in the tree for Demonology in order to see real use from ISL. Right now, it's a sacrifice in dps to provide Replenishment, so I don't think many Warlocks will be too inclined to take it.

#59 Morrigan

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 07:14 AM

By the way, I don't think the way SimCraft calculates Conflagration damage is correct. It seems to use the Immolate tick damage after all modifiers, but actual tests show that the Immolate glyph and talents do not increase Conflag damage, which should bring the Decimation/Conflag build down to more reasonable numbers.

#60 brymortis

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 07:35 AM

You're right, I've tried everything and ... here I present to you the currently highest DPS spec: 0/40/31 with Imp, Conflag und Immolate glyphs (yes, the new Imp glyph is ~20 dps higher than the Incinerate glyph)

reaches ~6200 DPS in SimCraft, and that is with a somewhat unclean Decimation implementation (I don't think it makes use of the max range trick, but then again they probably are gonna change that anyway).


Great find on the spec, do you happen to know what the rotation would be sub 35%?

I find that trying to keep up corruption and agony prevents you from getting more incin/SF off.

Should I drop corruption sub 35% and restrict it to agony?




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