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Kahorie's DK simulator 2.0 Beta - Including Cataclysm.


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#21 Cabal

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 10:20 PM

Lets go people, this needs more exposure/testing , very promising tool and updated almost daily? Whats not to like?

Where are all the math-oriented types!

Small input: Im getting what look to be ridiculous high dps numbers (7600), and I dont think i made any glaring errors anywhere. I get these with mostly all templates.

#22 tamo

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Posted 22 March 2009 - 04:57 AM

I just want to say, nice work, this tool has potential.

But i wonder, if you just made some random templates. For example the frost unholy template includes 5 points in tundra stalker and 2 points in dirge......or do i missunderstand the *.xml files?

#23 Nightseye

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Posted 22 March 2009 - 07:04 AM

Is there any reason why the simulation time cannot go below 1 hour?

Other than that the tool looks great to me.

#24 Katsapliock

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Posted 22 March 2009 - 09:42 AM

Small input: Im getting what look to be ridiculous high dps numbers (7600), and I dont think i made any glaring errors anywhere. I get these with mostly all templates.


I input Betrayer's dps as 222.9 and got as a result something like 12k dps, then changed the value to 223 and got a more "proper" 5k-ish dps. Maybe that could be the problem?

Other than that didn't have time to test it much further but it seems very good so far, thanks for your work Kahorie

#25 Guest_Afabar_*

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Posted 22 March 2009 - 10:34 AM

I have played a lot with templates files to check if the talents are correctly implemented. So it don't surprise me that there is some mistake. From my point of view the templates included are just sample. And I don't have a lot of time to work on them right now, as it's not high in the priority list of what left to do.
So, if the community can send me some template, rotation or priority configuration files via PM, you could easily include them in the next release.

@Nightseye
Due to the high randomness of the simulator, I don't know if make the tool able to simulate less than 1 hour fight is a good idea, but if you insist I can make it possible.

#26 Cabal

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Posted 22 March 2009 - 12:09 PM

Personaly I dont even see a reason to have < 1 hour available, the program is very very fast, 1 hour takes less than five seconds to calculate.

I found the reason why I was getting too high dps values, I didnt read the

For the Attack power, copy the green value inside tooltip of Attack power


part in the readme.

#27 Fugazor

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Posted 22 March 2009 - 02:32 PM

Great application.

What I noticed:
1) Bloodworms are not in, granted they aren't pumping crazy numbers but still. That is if they don't scale with anything then there is no point of doing that (do they?).
2) Sigil of Dark Rider seems to add same dps as new Awarness for Blood. This should not be possible because it was confirmed that sigil adds only 45 to BS/HS not 90.
3) It would be very nice to see how much DPS pets does (Ghoul, Garg, DRW). Reason is that Ghoul will be dying a lot on most fights (especially without NotD and glyph) so assuming 100% uptime is bad idea. Now if we lower Ghoul uptime STR, haste and hit value will go down.
4) I wouldn't agree with some build-in templates (especially Unholy) but it is editable so.
5) When trying to calculate EP while being hit or exp capped (or close to cap) I got strange results like some values going MINUS or some values going crazy (like STR = 5 AP). To my understanding exp value should just go to 0, hit still have some minor value (until spell cap) and other stats should have same values. Something is not right there, I so far just avoided this via using exp/hit numbers before cap in character template.
6) How is DRW implemented? I ask because tooltip is simply misleading, I noticed DRW take skill damage you do before all talents, buffs, glyphs etc. and does it by itself (so lower crit, no ArP), for example my HS did x4 more avg. damage than DRW HS (and DRW had lower crit rate). I also noticed it melee by itself even when you stop auto attack.
7) It would be nice to add EP value for armor. It should be 0.027 with 5/5 Bladed Armor.

Here are some values I got:
Stat|Blood|Unholy
AP|1.00|1.00
STR|3.09|2.96
AGI|0.77|0.79
Hit|2.48|2.14
Crit|1.53|1.62
Haste|1.85|1.24
ArP|2.44|1.08
Exp|2.07|1.59


Gear from armory with hit/exp values manually lowered, 2/4xT7 enabled, Sigil of Awarness used. Specs used: Blood, Unholy.

Now comments on those:
1) STR may be too high for Blood as it is assuming 100% Ghoul uptime. But given that now it assumes 100% uptime and all glyphs active it is correct from that point.
2) AGI have slightly higher value for Unholy. Something is wrong here, Blood value should be higher - or maybe just DRW lower value of AGI?
3) Crit rating - same deal as with AGI, again I think it is because of DRW (don't benefit from crit rating). Unholy value seems to be pretty high - it would be worth to double check that.
4) Haste seems fine given 100% Ghoul uptime and that DRW benefit from it.
5) ArP looks a little too high for both. It may something to do with new Sunder?
6) Exp looks somewhat high for Unholy.

#28 Guest_Afabar_*

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Posted 22 March 2009 - 05:20 PM

1) Bloodworms is not yet implemented. I need to find more information about it.
2) I had heard of 45 + 22.5 per disease. I will have to check this.
3) It's hard to simulate the Ghoul life expectancy. I could add a parameter somewhere to kill it.
4) As I said in earlier, Template are samples. Create yours. If you find them good, send them to me. I will add them in future release.
5) Random Number Generator. EP calculation is easy. It makes a run with your character sheet. Then it makes multiple runs adding a value to each character stat. Then it compares the different results. I do believe that the default value of 24h is too short to calculte EP. But I need to upgrade the engine to make it faster.
6) I have to addmit that DRW is not 100% accurate. I would say the DRW generated is close to what we should have on PTR, but I still need a lot of work to say it's complete.
7) I also need to add an EP for Weapon DPS and speed. It's on my TODO list.


I have check your comment on your result.
1) If you think it fine, I'm fine with that.
2 and 3) the only place where Agility appears in the code is when it computer player's physical crit rating. So it might be ok. For information, here is the formula I use :
tmp = 5  'BaseCrit
		tmp = tmp + Character.CritRating / 45.91
		if Sigils.HauntedDreams then
			if proc.HauntedDreams then tmp = tmp + 173/45.91
		end if
		tmp = tmp + Character.Agility / 62.5
		tmp = tmp + 5 * Buff.MeleeCrit
		tmp = tmp + 3 * Buff.CritChanceTaken
		tmp = tmp + TalentBlood.Darkconv
		tmp = tmp + TalentUnholy.EbonPlaguebringer
		tmp = tmp + talentFrost.Annihilation
		return tmp / 100

5) Keep in mind that ArP is 25% more efficient too.

#29 Guest_Afabar_*

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 07:09 PM

I just have updated the OP with the latest version of the tool.
No huge addition this time, but I still need your feedback.

0.5.0 Release notes
* Simulator Engine upgrade. A bit faster and more accurate on white hit swing speed.
* Time unity for combat log is now in 0.01 second (from 0.1 second).
* Glancing blow implemented
* One-Roll for white damage
* Bug: Icy Touch and Howling Blast consumed runes even if spell had been resisted.


One thinks disturb me. I can't find a Frost/blood template (1x/5x/00) that give good DPS. I can't find if it's from the simulator or that the spec is not that good any more.
But I am very surprise by the result that give me DW-Unholy-Frost spec using DW-Frost priority on unholy presence.

#30 Fatedtolive

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 08:00 PM

This spec in blood presence using a OB-FS-Ob-FS-IT-BS-FS ish(IT and BS rotate spots every set) rotation is the poplar 2hd strike-based rotation. It does push over the 10 second/rotation a bit but has been proven that its worth squeezing the additional frost strike in. Does require 4PT7 though.

Edit: Points in endless winter are filler
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#31 NeuronRider

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 08:20 PM

The tool is specifically built around 3.1, not the 3.0 talent tree as you linked. While a modification of that build may work (though his simulations suggest they may not be competitive...which will take some in game testing to find where things differ).

#32 Fatedtolive

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 10:43 PM

Ah, yeah, I had a serious case of "The Dumb" when I replied. With 3.1 I think 0/49/22 or something very similar is being currently hailed as the highest DPS spec because of the RP generation it has to make up for the T7 loss and Perma Ghoul.
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#33 Cabal

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 01:27 AM

This is getting better and better!

Anyway a request of sorts: Kahorie, how much of a hassle would it be for the report section to display the median damage per skill? Something like:

SS------XXXX(total damage done by skill)-----xxxx(median damage of individual hits done by the skill)

#34 Azazel85

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 12:26 PM

Really great tool, thks, i'm trying many different specs and rotations, but i find a little problem for frost atm: i tryed a heavy IT rotation, without OB, deleted OB in priority file, but it continues to use it, also checked in combat log. Then i tryed the pre saved dual wield priority and same thing, OB it is still used even if it isn't in the priority file. My problem or there is something wrong? thks in advance and sorry for my poor english.

Edit: ok, i just selected anything in the "rotation" tab and the combat log seems right. i'll check better today. but now my question is: what is the use of the "rotation" tab? :)

#35 Guest_Afabar_*

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 12:51 PM

Cabal, I can do that. I think I can implement that for the next release.

Azazel,
Did you re-open the simulator after updating the priority file ?
Simulator should not use an ability that is not define in the priority file ( except long timer like ghoul and other).
Let me know if it append another time.

The rotation is here if you don't want to use a priority set up. The simulator use priority OR rotation. That's why when you select one, the other is grayed.

#36 Fugazor

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 03:45 PM

One thinks disturb me. I can't find a Frost/blood template (1x/5x/00) that give good DPS. I can't find if it's from the simulator or that the spec is not that good any more.

I don't think any spec without permanent Ghoul will be viable anymore - at least in theory. In practice on fight where (especially non-NotD) Ghouls will drop left and right situation may change.

As for Ghoul uptime - can't you just get Ghoul DPS and make it X*50% or whatever uptime we choose? I am sure people after few weeks will figure out what is avg. uptime of Ghoul with their build on fights that matter.

For build templates, here are two current Unholy I would consider:
- 12/0/59
- 0/10/61
Keep in mind some talents may not be "best theory dps" but in practice are worth more (run speed from Imp. UP, DnD cooldown reduction from Morbidity).

#37 Guest_Afabar_*

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 04:06 PM

As for Ghoul uptime - can't you just get Ghoul DPS and make it X*50% or whatever uptime we choose? I am sure people after few weeks will figure out what is avg. uptime of Ghoul with their build on fights that matter.


I was more thinking of a TimeToLive parameter for the ghoul. And the simulator would recall him as soon as available, depending its cooldown (NotD).

I will add those 2 templates. By the way, it reminds me that I have to implement D&D.

#38 Fugazor

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 04:44 PM

If you do that keep in mind pre-fight buffs on "first" Ghoul (BoM, BoK, motw). Also why would you want to add DnD? Do you plan to add some kind of aoe dps meter?

BTW: I noticed that EP values seems to sometimes vary a lot. For example for 12/0/59 I got STR equal to 2.95 (24h) then 4.17 (100h) then 3.41 (24h). Other stats were somewhat more stable but still varied too much. Any idea how to stabilize results - should I increase simulation time ever more?

#39 Rayven01

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 05:13 PM

Also why would you want to add DnD? Do you plan to add some kind of aoe dps meter?


DnD does significant damage for unholy spec, even on single target.. upwards of 800 a tick on live, and that's without the new black ice. Even if it's not an ability you would want in your every day standing-still rotation it would be nice to be able to model it for fights where you have to move around but the boss stays relatively stationary.

#40 Guest_Afabar_*

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 10:50 PM

0.6.0 Release notes
* Better reporting. Note that Miss% count miss and dodge.
* Calculation for DRW average damage is actually wrong!
* EP calculation for weapon DPS
* D&D implementation. Now available in Priority, Rotation and Glyph.
* Bug: Hit calculation of UB and WP was not done.



Fugazor,
I forgot to add the template you propose, I will include them in the next release.
Why include DnD ? It might be usefull somehow. A least to check how much you "loose" to use it.

To decrease variation, I suggest you to increase simulation time. But, I sometime get a 50 difference with a 240 hour simulation.




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