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Rogue DPS Simulation Spreadsheet


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#41 Nagru

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 04:55 AM

If you are able to refresh rupture 0.2 sec before it expires, the last tick of your previous rupture will be lost and it will start a new timer based on the number of combo points of your new rupture. So there will in fact be a 3.8 sec interval between the last tick of the previous rupture and the first tick of the new rupture. After that it will go on at a regular 2 sec intervals.

Is it worthwhile to refresh it? It depends on reasons why it gets dropped and for how long. Here is an example when it might be worthwhile. Imagine you have 35 energy and you are 0.2 sec away from the time rupture expires.
Case A: eviscerate, with no relentless strikes proc, so you are at 0 energy, 0.2 second later rupture expires, 2.5 seconds later you have enough energy to renew rupture, but you do not have enough combo points. It may take 6 seconds or more before you rupture next time.
Case B: you allow to refresh rupture before it expires. You lose one tick of rupture, but you increase your rupture uptime.

Obvious drawback of allowing to refresh rupture in the simulation is simply that often you cannot refresh it because "a more powerful spell is already active." Other than that, just run the simulation and see for yourself whether it benefits your dps or not to allow for refreshing rupture.


Thanks for clearing that up for me. I'll try and go through scenarios and see what's worthwhile from there.

I also have a quick question of Blood Splatter. Does anybody have a rough idea of how many hat procs/sec that it's worthwhile to pick it up over the 6% eviscerate damage in Aggression, and when it's better to have the 6% eviscerate damage?

I think it's better when you have a much slower combo point flow to have more damage on rupture since you'll be eviscerating less and possibly even using hemorrhage for points when you are getting near capped on energy with little or no combo points, but I'm wondering if there's a specific point that anybody knows when it's better to have and better to skip?

Edit: Edited for grammar/spelling

#42 Rilias

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 11:50 AM

Case B: you allow to refresh rupture before it expires. You lose one tick of rupture, but you increase your rupture uptime.


Please be aware that rupture uptime has no value in itself (barring the new HfB) since it is the number and power of rupture ticks that is important.
Clipping rupture does always cost you a number of ticks and whatever you could have done instead of rupturing should be (number of ticks lost * damage per tick) worse than performing a rupture to make rupturing viable. And even then you block yourself from performing a rupture that you benefit fully of for the duration this new rupture runs and this should be considered an extra cost of the clipping maneuver.

#43 YLU

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 03:28 AM

Now to the current findings about 3.1 dps:

Tree		Spec	DPS	Gear Notes				Poisons
Combat		15/51/5	6573	5/5 T8 poison hit capped, AG gems		WP/DP
Combat		7/51/13	6543	5/5 T8 poison hit capped, AG gems		WP/DP
Combat		18/51/2	6524	5/5 T8 poison hit capped, AG gems		WP/DP
Mutilate		51/13/7	6507	5/5 T8 poison hit capped, exp capped, AG gems	IP/DP
vHaT 2c/s		8/20/43	7660	5/5 T8 poison hit capped, exp capped, AG gems	WP/DP
vHaT with LR 2c/s	8/20/43	7726	5/5 T8 poison hit capped, exp capped, AG gems	WP/DP
nvHaT 2c/s	23/5/43	7706	5/5 T8 poison hit capped, exp capped, AG gems	IP/DP

Compared to the previous results posted in 3.1 thread, the changes include the 2 bug fixes, using full t8 instead of just 4 pieces, using agility gems as fillers for all specs and also adding a vHaT spec with LR currently appears to be highest dps spec out of all specs.


Quick question, what does "2c/s" mean? :/

#44 Mavanas

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 04:29 AM

2 c/s is 2 crits per second. That is, the number of crits that cause HaT proc (most special abilities) per second from your group members. It's a way of measuring the quality of your HaT group.

#45 Nannou

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 12:05 PM

Is there an addon I could use that measures c/s in-game? It would be a precious tool to evaluate the quality of your group setup.

#46 Loot

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 12:23 PM

Not one I know of. I started writing such but put on hold atm till I have more time and think how to handle some situations

#47 Nannou

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 12:31 PM

Wouldn't it be possible to just track the number of HaT procs in the combatlog and do a simple average?

#48 aeternal

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 02:11 PM

I wrote a very simple but useful extension to Recount for tracking # ability crits/min, and overall # ability crits (only abilities that trigger HAT)...once I come back from work, I'll put up a link if anyone wants to try it out.

#49 Mavanas

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 02:16 PM

It would be an invaluable tool for HaT spec, so do share :)

Could you also make a list of abilities that you marked as ones that proc HaT, so we can check it off the lists floating in the HaT thread. Also our current understanding is the 1 second HaT cooldown is either not implemented or is bugged, so if you have some sort of timer going on, I would not worry about it till they fix it.

Oh and I hope your tool can count pets and add them to their owners or at least list them separatey so we can add them on our own.

#50 aeternal

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 02:25 PM

Well, as I stated, it's just an extension to Recount, so it unfortunately doesn't have any special handling for the 1 second cooldown. Regardless, you'll have a good idea of who to stack in your group (it usually ends up being clearly survival hunters at the top, followed by elemental shaman, feral tank druid, fury warriors, and so forth). As for pets, last I tested, immediately after 3.0.8, pets no longer proc HAT. I tested this with a hunter in my group against target dummies.

#51 Nannou

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 04:15 PM

Does your extension work in realtime?

#52 Nagru

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 05:50 PM

About the extension (I plan on getting it, it seems too useful to pass up as HAT). I've never really installed an extension, so could someone give me a quick how-to once it's posted?

#53 sp00n

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 06:24 PM

I suspect he simply modified Recount's source code, as I don't think that Recount itself has an API on which other addons can hook to (sp? :kirby:).

Stopped Playing


#54 Guest_Acaelus_*

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 08:21 PM

Mavanas do you have any #'s on what a mutilate build with LR is at? I'm curious to see the raw # difference between 51/18/2 and 51/13/7. If that info is posted elsewhere please let me know.

#55 aeternal

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 10:43 PM

Here's the link to the Recount Extension:
MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service

Basically what it does is 'hook' into your existing Recount, (tested with 1.3), and adds two
new options: 'Ability Crits' and 'Ability Crits/min'.

All HAT proccing abilities are defined in 'Recount_HAT_Abilities.lua'. Surely, after 3.1, more
will need to be added, such as Rupture. Note that the abilities listed in this file are named
by their unranked names. "Eviscerate" instead of "Eviscerate(Rank 1)"

There's always the chance that there are some abilities not being tracked that should be.
If you create a chat window called 'RecountHATDebug', then the addon will log to it any
abilities that it thinks might/should be in this abilities list. It does this by tracking any
spells that crit, have a cost, and a cooldown.

If you want to estimate how many procs per second you can get out of your raid, track the
number of ability crits/min for a tank and spank type fight, take the top 4 ability crits/min,
total them together, add yourself to the total, divide by 60. So, if all 5 members of your group
on average can crit 24 times per minute, including yourself, that's 2 crits per second total.
Like I said, this addon doesn't take into account the internal cooldown per group member of 1 second.

It's a very limited addon, but it's gotten me through and vastly helped me decide who to stack
in my groups. Enjoy.

#56 aeternal

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 10:45 PM

To install it, you simply install it like any other addon. Extract it to a folder, like 'Recount_HAT' and put it in your Addons folder. It basically hooks into known global variables that Recount uses. I'm only actually using Recount for the GUI, since I didn't feel like rewriting that portion. The actual tracking happens from within the HAT Addin, so it's easy to tweak without affecting Recount.

#57 Mavanas

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 11:18 PM

To install it, you simply install it like any other addon. Extract it to a folder, like 'Recount_HAT' and put it in your Addons folder. It basically hooks into known global variables that Recount uses. I'm only actually using Recount for the GUI, since I didn't feel like rewriting that portion. The actual tracking happens from within the HAT Addin, so it's easy to tweak without affecting Recount.



Thanks Aeternal,

Just one note about notation, when I am saying 2 c/s, it refers to HaT rate from the rest of the group excluding yourself. If you include your own crits. it would be a higher number. DPS in the table above is for a group that gives me 2 combo points per second.

#58 Guest_Agropyron_*

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 11:30 PM

Aeternal if you could post your addon somewhere else we'd really appreciate it. It seems the website you posted it on only allows 10 downloads.

#59 aeternal

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 11:57 PM

I updated the link to use Megaupload instead. If anyone knows any good file hosting sites that don't enforce limits, let me know.

#60 YLU

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 12:37 AM

Based from the spreadsheet, the best rotation for vHaT with LR 2c/s would be SnD -> Eviscerate? The rupture is basically not needed?




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