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Armor Values


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#1 Torael_7

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 06:35 AM

I remember looking over the thread posted on the research into/theory behind point values blizzard uses for creating armor; at the time I glazed over and went "tl;dr" but I'm wondering now if anyone has just the raw values, perhaps in a text document, that they could post here.

#2 Cardrian

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 08:06 AM

tl;dr
8< 8< 8< 8< Cut Thread Here 8< 8< 8< 8<

#3 hamlet_the_lesser

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 01:09 PM

what does tl;dr mean?
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#4 jubelio

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 01:17 PM

it's code for "hamlet is about to post in this thread if he hasnt already"

:)

#5 Rumor

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 01:57 PM

Too long didnt read.
Rumor stood on the snowy hilltop, gripped her broadsword and blatantly ignored the painful frost burns caused by her chainmail bikini. - RIP Rumor the night elf female huntress .
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#6 Wodin

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 02:50 PM

Here's Hyzenthlei's original post - I haven't gotten around to archiving the various updates she's made.

#7 hamlet_the_lesser

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 02:56 PM

it's code for "hamlet is about to post in this thread if he hasnt already"

:)

I just wanted to know :(
I have never found something TL;DR, that just sounds terribly lazy. Especially if you want information out of it but you are looking for a cliff notes version.
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#8 XI-

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 03:24 PM

it's code for "hamlet is about to post in this thread if he hasnt already"

:)

I just wanted to know :(
I have never found something TL;DR, that just sounds terribly lazy. Especially if you want information out of it but you are looking for a cliff notes version.

That's because its sole purpose is to troll someone's post similar to such gems as THX 4 LETTUCE NOESS BLIZRAD, and following in the footsteps of such humorous statements as, THE PACT IS SEALED.

in before JOHN FUCKING MADDEN


#9 aquacadet

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 03:38 PM

what does tl;dr mean?

It's the long way of writing out ~

#10 phyra

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 05:43 PM

Hyzenthlei's formulas are completely empirically derived and since the actual item calculations are approximate and round by integers, the numbers are very messy.

You can check some calculations being done on actual items by adding '&hyz=1', as in http://www.thottbot.com/?i=40573&hyz=1

If you're just looking for simple numbers comparing the 'cost' of each type of stat, here's a shameless plug of integer-based values of the 'cost' of each type of stat point I came up with, derived from some slides at Blizzcon (that said Dodge = 12 and Crit = 14 points iirc) - ie, these are my best guesses at the 'real thing' rather than an observed average.

The Passive Stats:
Strength = Agility = Stamina = Intellect = Spirit = 1
Attack Power = 1/2
Ranged Attack Power = 1/4
Ranged Attack Power (Equip:) = 5/12
% Hit = 10
% Crit = 14
Armor = 1/10
Skill Defense = 1
Skill Defense (Equip:) = 3/2
Damage Shield = 3
% Dodge = 12
% Parry = 20
% Block = 5
Block Value = 2/3
HP/5sec Regen = 4
Mana/5sec Regen = 5/2
% Spell Crit = 14
% Spell Hit = 10
All School Spell Damage = 5/6
Healing = 5/11
Fire / Frost / Nature / Arcane / Shadow / Holy Damage = 7/10
("Of Holy Wrath" = 1 point for the first 18, 1/2 point beyond that...don't ask me why)
Fire / Frost / Nature / Arcane / Shadow Resist = 1 (Ring Resist = 3/4)

Relative amounts of stats given to each slot type of equal iLvl:
7/7 – head, chest, legs, two-hand
5/7 – shoulder, waist, feet, hands
4/7 – neck, wrist, finger, one-hand, back
2/7 – ranged
? – trinket

To calculate the 'total cost' of an item relative to another, raise each individual stat to the log2/log1.5 (~1.7095)th power, then add them together. This makes it so 8 stamina + 8 strength has the same 'cost' as 12 stamina on a single item, ie 8^1.7095 + 8^1.7095 = 12. This property was also derived from Blizzcon slides that said 8+8=12. This has the effect of discouraging excessive stacking of a single stat in any one place.

#11 Praetorian

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 05:49 PM

Ah, hadn't realized that simplified list was done by you -- good stuff.

I still don't understand how or why hp/5 is valued as highly as it is.

#12 XI-

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 05:54 PM

Ah, hadn't realized that simplified list was done by you -- good stuff.

I still don't understand how or why hp/5 is valued as highly as it is.

Because there are people at blizzard who understand as much about the game as your average tree does about quantum physics.

in before JOHN FUCKING MADDEN


#13 Praetorian

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 05:59 PM

Also, what are these distinctions?

Ranged Attack Power = 1/4
Ranged Attack Power (Equip:) = 5/12

Skill Defense = 1
Skill Defense (Equip:) = 3/2



#14 Wodin

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 06:16 PM

I thought it was the difference in phrasing on the item, but I can't find an instance of the former in either case.

#15 phyra

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 06:37 PM

Also, what are these distinctions?

Ranged Attack Power = 1/4
Ranged Attack Power (Equip:) = 5/12

Skill Defense = 1
Skill Defense (Equip:) = 3/2

if i recall, the ones without 'Equip:' are the raw stat things you see on green items, as in "mighty girdle of defense" or "siege bow of marksmanship". I was as surprised as you to see the difference - my guess is they changed the Equip: stat values around to balance the high-end hand-crafted items (remember when they nerfed Defense skill across the board?) and didn't bother to update the green random stat items because they didn't matter.

This makes green +defense items a better-than-average way to round out a Warrior's Defense gear sets - at least until those epics start rolling in.

#16 Torael_7

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 06:37 PM

Hyzenthlei's formulas are completely empirically derived and since the actual item calculations are approximate and round by integers, the numbers are very messy.

You can check some calculations being done on actual items by adding '&hyz=1', as in http://www.thottbot.com/?i=40573&hyz=1

<snip>

Thanks, this is what I was looking for.


On that note, fuck you blizzard for valuing dodge almost as highly as crit. :angry:

<edit> Wait, explain this bit. Does this just mean you can set a baseline of 100% as a head/chest/leg/2h piece, and the rest has the given % value worth of stats? Just double checking.

Relative amounts of stats given to each slot type of equal iLvl:
7/7 – head, chest, legs, two-hand
5/7 – shoulder, waist, feet, hands
4/7 – neck, wrist, finger, one-hand, back
2/7 – ranged
? – trinket



#17 phyra

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 06:47 PM

<edit> Wait, explain this bit. Does this just mean you can set a baseline of 100% as a head/chest/leg/2h piece, and the rest has the given % value worth of stats? Just double checking.

Yup. Those values were from another post in the thread, but I think I came up with something similar myself.

Oh, also, here's the relative armor values on the different slots:

Wrist 7
Waist 9
Hands 10
Feet 11
Shoulder 12
Head 13
Legs 14
Chest 16

But I didn't find the armor values interesting so I didn't bother with the rest of those formulas involved.

#18 Kaubel

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 07:02 PM

So 1MP/5 sec = 2.5 points of spirit in stat value. In application though, is it that simple? I keep forgetting how we equate the two.

I've been trying to concentrate on studying for my Proof Methods test tomorrow, and all I can think of is your hotness, radiating out from the pixels on my monitor, seared straight into my neurons.


#19 phyra

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 07:09 PM

So 1MP/5 sec = 2.5 points of spirit in stat value. In application though, is it that simple? I keep forgetting how we equate the two.

Yup, it's simple as that when thinking about interchanging individual stats. The convluted parts come when you look at items with a combination of stats, or items across slots/rarities/iLvls.

#20 Praetorian

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 07:12 PM

4 spirit = 1 mana/tick = 2.5 mana/5

When the 5-second rule is not in effect, 1.6 spirit is equal to 1 mana/5.

But that's nothing earthshattering. Of course spirit is better when you aren't casting.

When you have the 5-second rule in effect, for a shaman or paladin, 1 mana/5 is worth infinite spirit.

For a priest or druid with 3-piece tier 2 and mana regen talents (30% total regen), 1 mana/5 is worth 5.33 spirit.

Choosing between the two depends on personal preference, how you heal, and your own estimation of how often you are getting full spirit ticks during situations that matter. The more frequently you're getting full ticks, the closer to 1.6:1 your personal valuation should be. The less frequently, the closer to 5.33:1 it should be.

Personally, I use 2.5:1 as my mental yardstick and it works well enough.




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