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Feral Tanking Discussion


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#21 Guest_Abbichum_*

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 12:27 PM

Just last night i decided to pass on . Currently wearing and . The Platinum band would then replace Gatekeeper which would result in the following:

+10 stamina
+46 defense rating
+42 expertise
-448 armor
-5 dodge rating
-28 hit

I didnt care much about the gains in expertise vs. loss of hit, since threat hasnt been an issue for me on any boss so far(havent done vezax and yogg yet) and the gains of 10 stamina and 46 defense rating didnt make up for the loss of 448 armor. YMMV of course, and I'd be happy to hear your reasoning for choosing otherwise.

With regards to the current tank weapon issues and arenas(which is actually a problem with all the arena gear, if you discount a stat like expertise) I find it disheartening that Blizzard wanted to remove us from that path of gearing, but seem to have failed again. I can accept the arena gear to be "sufficient" to tank PVE-content, but when its BiS gear, it proves that blizzard still have issues trying to come up with ideas that removes bears from the need to stack agi and stamina above all.

#22 Gallowglass

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 03:41 PM

As far as the PVP staffs being BiS for tanking, they are hugely over budget and should only have 50% of the agility they do currently. However, even if the agility is halfed, they are still showing as BiS, albeit not by such a gross margin, I'll deff be picking up the 1850 one when I get the points, doubtful I'll make 2200 for the 2nd tier.

I am also seeing the furious bracers, gloves and legs to be BiS for tanking depending on how much you value threat with the boots ad belt not far behind either.

I was also wondering how much other people value expertise, not so much from a threat PoV, but from a parry-gib avoiding PoV. How dangerous are parry gibs now to our survivability? Rawr doesnt seem to rate it too highly, but nightcrawlers sim seems to rate it extremely high from his last run of tank sims (21 May). I personally like expertise, but wouldnt go out of my way to get it, or rate it as high as def, but i do rate it higher than rawr does, although not quite as high as night seems to think its worth.

#23 Mindshift

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 04:48 PM

Can anyone tell me if Bear hit rating is different. I was missing more than I like last night in heroic ulduar, and my hit rating was 297 (food, heroic prescence). It didn't lead to any problems on threat, but I don't care to miss.

#24 kalbear

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 06:34 PM

Can anyone tell me if Bear hit rating is different. I was missing more than I like last night in heroic ulduar, and my hit rating was 297 (food, heroic prescence). It didn't lead to any problems on threat, but I don't care to miss.

Were you missing, or were you being dodged/parried?

VtS, it's not a free attack if you have infinite rage. If you're tanking a boss and you have rage issues, I'd be surprised. The only time it's at all valuable is in low-rage situations; in high-rage situations it does nothing for you at all. And even in low-rage situations you can't bet on it.

#25 Mindshift

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 07:00 PM

Were you missing, or were you being dodged/parried?

VtS, it's not a free attack if you have infinite rage. If you're tanking a boss and you have rage issues, I'd be surprised. The only time it's at all valuable is in low-rage situations; in high-rage situations it does nothing for you at all. And even in low-rage situations you can't bet on it.


It was mostly parrys. my bad, I forgot to look at the WWS this morning. I actually had no missing hits.

#26 Brute

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 08:47 PM

Anecdotally, I'm seeming more parries too on ulduar bosses. I imagine blizzard is just give these bosses a higher parry rate to correspond with the increasing levels of expertise out there.

#27 Farias

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 09:06 PM

Expertise cap for negating parry is 16%, 6.5% is to negate Dodge which is why most dps threads state the expertise cap is at 6.5%. So unless you have 16% expertise you will still be getting parried, the bosses in Ulduar have not had their parry chance increased.

#28 kalbear

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 09:18 PM

Farias, this was shown recently to be untrue at least for the training dummy; it was 14%. This was in the combat ratings thread as well as other threads.

Without actual data points and values, it's pretty useless to cite one or two fights. In those cases it's just more deep breaths.

#29 VtS

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 10:12 PM

Were you missing, or were you being dodged/parried?

VtS, it's not a free attack if you have infinite rage. If you're tanking a boss and you have rage issues, I'd be surprised. The only time it's at all valuable is in low-rage situations; in high-rage situations it does nothing for you at all. And even in low-rage situations you can't bet on it.


If you read my post I did state that I do have infinite rage, since the bosses hit over 10-20k, unless I get a string of dodges/misses or on the start of a pull.

#30 kalbear

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 10:27 PM

If you read my post I did state that I do have infinite rage, since the bosses hit over 10-20k, unless I get a string of dodges/misses or on the start of a pull.

I did, but depending on a situation where you aren't hit AND you happen to get a proc off of a bleed that happens every 3 seconds is not a justifiable reason to have the set bonus. And it still only gives you a free mangle, lacerate or swipe; maul will still not be paid for via clearcasting, which means at best it's 40% of your threat.

As I said, even in low rage situations it's not reliable.

#31 Flowsharian

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 04:39 AM

Artemas/Xes I was trying to look up your character via armory and could not find you... I'm trying to find out where I can get the bis feral gear and what it would be pre ulduar.

#32 tr33hugger

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Posted 02 May 2009 - 04:19 PM

What do you think is the most useful way to socket your gear in Ulduar, stamina vs agility wise. Until last week i was purely socketing/enchanting agility sitting at 41k with an improved commanding shout (no stamina trinkets) and roughly 49% dodge. But then we tried Thorim hard and realized, that this isn't enough anymore. I now switched to a moderate relation, replacing all 16agi with 8/12 gems and 24sta in blue sockets, while still keeping my 3 27agi JC sockets. However i realized my TPS suffers from this quite a bit. What do you think would be the sweet spot, or what could now be considered as "enough health"?

#33 VtS

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Posted 02 May 2009 - 11:06 PM

What do you think is the most useful way to socket your gear in Ulduar, stamina vs agility wise. Until last week i was purely socketing/enchanting agility sitting at 41k with an improved commanding shout (no stamina trinkets) and roughly 49% dodge. But then we tried Thorim hard and realized, that this isn't enough anymore. I now switched to a moderate relation, replacing all 16agi with 8/12 gems and 24sta in blue sockets, while still keeping my 3 27agi JC sockets. However i realized my TPS suffers from this quite a bit. What do you think would be the sweet spot, or what could now be considered as "enough health"?


I am also doing Thorim hard mode and his Unbalancing Strike, which apparently does not reset his swing timer at the moment, hits like a truck as he gains more debuffs. I agree that on most of the fights, gemming pure agility doesn't really cut it, meaning not enough health pool, so I dedicated my first set of T8.5 to pure stamina set and have my T7.5 for pure avoidance as well as a threat set in the bag. I don't think threat is an issue on Thorim, since the boss is being taunted most of the time and even if it was, I don't see myself switching threat gear in and lose survivability at this stage.

#34 Malazaar

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Posted 03 May 2009 - 07:03 AM

From what i've seen so far, i'd say you should be aiming for 50k HP buffed. If you can get more while not sacrificing too much of the other stats - go for it.

#35 Bloodfeud

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Posted 03 May 2009 - 11:52 AM

Last edited by Abbichum : 04/30/09 at 8:30 AM. Reason: not sure why Gatekeeper returns a bogus item link, but the comparison still stands.


Your link leads to Gatekeeper's Key, not Gatekeeper.

If the usual formatting doesn't work, try specifying the item number inside the first brackets, e.g. [item=40370 ]Gatekeeper [/ item]

#36 gravalin

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Posted 03 May 2009 - 03:48 PM

i may be a nub, but Idol Of Perspicacious Attacks still seems like a VERY useful idol. Even with the new mangle one.

#37 Guest_Abbichum_*

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Posted 03 May 2009 - 08:41 PM

i may be a nub, but Idol Of Perspicacious Attacks still seems like a VERY useful idol. Even with the new mangle one.


For me, they're idols for very different situations. The agility proc ones is for bosstanking when you take loads of damage and need the extra dodge, while the maul/swipe one is for naxx aoe trash tanking. I havent used the maul/swipe one so far in ulduar.

#38 druidforever

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 09:45 AM

Hello

As MT in Ulduar 25 i wanted to know if there is some stats i should change. Please check below.

Defense stats (unbuffed - no wild buff):

- Defense: 431
- Dodge: 42,43%
- Armor: 28626

Melee:
- Crit: 39,02%
- Expertise: 37 (Reduce chance to be dodged or parried by 9,25%. Expertise rating 225)
- Hit Rating: 227

Im using 3x t8,5 parts + 1xt8 part so i get the 4set bonus as well.

Is my expertise totally fucked or is it okey ? Cuz when i swap out parts from naxx i lose a lot of expertise.

My profile: Judica - WoW Armory

Feel free to come with tips/advice :D

In advance, tnx!

#39 VtS

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 10:23 AM

Hello

As MT in Ulduar 25 i wanted to know if there is some stats i should change. Please check below.

Defense stats (unbuffed - no wild buff):

- Defense: 431
- Dodge: 42,43%
- Armor: 28626

Melee:
- Crit: 39,02%
- Expertise: 37 (Reduce chance to be dodged or parried by 9,25%. Expertise rating 225)
- Hit Rating: 227

Im using 3x t8,5 parts + 1xt8 part so i get the 4set bonus as well.

Is my expertise totally fucked or is it okey ? Cuz when i swap out parts from naxx i lose a lot of expertise.

My profile: Judica - WoW Armory

Feel free to come with tips/advice :D

In advance, tnx!



Looking pretty good. Just hope the drops for you to replace that blue trinket of yours. I have a separate avoidance set, but looking at your somewhat agility based gear setup you do have relatively lower dodge than I'd expected (1% more than me in my full stamina set).

#40 Sarasper

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 05:28 PM

Looking pretty good. Just hope the drops for you to replace that blue trinket of yours. I have a separate avoidance set, but looking at your somewhat agility based gear setup you do have relatively lower dodge than I'd expected (1% more than me in my full stamina set).


I'd also throw in as a nice way to boost dodge.




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