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Feral Tanking Discussion


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#41 Guest_Aldhissla_*

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Posted 05 May 2009 - 03:48 AM

Don't be like that guy and go out of your way to activate all socket bonuses with strange gems. Either you focus on avoidance - gemming 16 agi in all slots barring 12stam/8agi in blue slots where you like the bonus, or focus on health - gemming 24 stam in all slots barring 12stam/8agi in red slots where you like the bonus. And if you really want to activate yellow sockets, use something like defense/stam, not crit/stam.

#42 Varashkan

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Posted 05 May 2009 - 10:45 PM

And if you really want to activate yellow sockets, use something like defense/stam, not crit/stam.


I find myself either using prismatic gems or the glinting monarch topaz (8hit/8agi) in yellow sockets... gemming defense seems.. well.. yeah..

#43 Guest_Aldhissla_*

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 01:18 AM

I find myself either using prismatic gems or the glinting monarch topaz (8hit/8agi) in yellow sockets... gemming defense seems.. well.. yeah..

I was directing that comment to non JCs who don't have access to nice prismatics. Additionally, I was not so much encouraging gemming defense as I was stating if you really feel like you need to gem a yellow slot, choose a better option than crit/stam. I would take 12 stam / 8 defense over 8 agi / 8 hit any day.

#44 Inaiwae

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 07:25 AM

The difference between 24 stamina/16 defense and 16 agi/16 hit is so small that it does not matter for your survivability. I personally prefer agi / hit for additional threat (and yes its probably so small that it does not matter either).

#45 Mindshift

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 02:39 PM

I have a serious question that I cannot find a definate answer for.

What is the cap for dodge percentage ? When does diminshing returns kick in?

I ask this because right now my stats raid buffed are 49% dodge, 42k health. Of course I have mongoose on my Twisted Visage, Darkmoon Greatness and Heart of Iron. So as you can see I'm constantly sitting at 52-54% dodge, and if I use Heart of Iron, it goes up to 58% dodge. To me this seems excessively high.

I am using all agility/agility+stam gems and according to Rawr, thats what I should be doing but I cant help but think that all that dodge really isn't doing me much good passed a certain point.

Any help would be much appreciated.

#46 Jak1301

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 02:49 PM

Hi
i am currently a feral druid tank tanked up to General in 10 ulduar

and i was looking at my Glyphs
currently i am using
- Glyph of Maul
- Glyph of Growling
- Glyph of Frezied Regeneration

is there any use in replacing these for
- Glyph of Survival Instincts
- or glyph of Berserk and Glyph of mangle

#47 a civilian

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 03:26 PM

I have a serious question that I cannot find a definate answer for.

What is the cap for dodge percentage ? When does diminshing returns kick in?


Diminishing returns on avoidance are applied continuously. See http://elitistjerks....ngs_level_80_a/.

#48 Mijae

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 03:36 PM

I have a serious question that I cannot find a definate answer for.

What is the cap for dodge percentage ? When does diminshing returns kick in?

I ask this because right now my stats raid buffed are 49% dodge, 42k health. Of course I have mongoose on my Twisted Visage, Darkmoon Greatness and Heart of Iron. So as you can see I'm constantly sitting at 52-54% dodge, and if I use Heart of Iron, it goes up to 58% dodge. To me this seems excessively high.

I am using all agility/agility+stam gems and according to Rawr, thats what I should be doing but I cant help but think that all that dodge really isn't doing me much good passed a certain point.

Any help would be much appreciated.


Most of these numbers can be found at http://elitistjerks....ngs_level_80_a/. In realistic terms there is no hard cap. The DR is a continual curve. You can see a graph here showing the TTL gain per stat is somewhat flat for obtainable levels.

Tank gearing really has not changed at all from TBC. If you want more survivability, stack stamina. When you think you have enough, stack avoidance. When healing is easy, stack TPS/DPS.

#49 david0925

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 09:53 AM

Hi
i am currently a feral druid tank tanked up to General in 10 ulduar

and i was looking at my Glyphs
currently i am using
- Glyph of Maul
- Glyph of Growling
- Glyph of Frezied Regeneration

is there any use in replacing these for
- Glyph of Survival Instincts
- or glyph of Berserk and Glyph of mangle


Replace frenzied regen with SI, barkskin and mangle are both not that useful

#50 Helistar

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 11:35 AM

I was directing that comment to non JCs who don't have access to nice prismatics. Additionally, I was not so much encouraging gemming defense as I was stating if you really feel like you need to gem a yellow slot, choose a better option than crit/stam. I would take 12 stam / 8 defense over 8 agi / 8 hit any day.


Just to provide complete information: non-JCs do have access to a prismatic gem, the Enchanted Tear, which is unique-equipped and +6 to all stats, which in itself is not bad, since it boost everything (TPS, avoidance, survival). If used to obtain a socket bonus, it can become the best gem to use.

Ulduar tanking: I only tank in 10-man basically. When running 25 man there are other tanks and I stick to pure DPS (I'm in a casual guild, we're advancing very slowly in Ulduar). For the moment I'm going with stamina, since it has shown to be a more reliable stat. I agree that Ulduar items are lacking for feral tanks, it really looks like with 3.1 blizzard wanted all us ferals to go dps. Big cat dps boost, ulduar leather items loaded with armor penetration (which is very much useless for a tank), set bonuses which are good for cat and very average for tanking....

BTW I'm working on a tanking simulator, if there's interest I can release it (it's C++, for the moment without any kind of interface). I wrote it because I wanted to learn more about game mechanics and also because the TTL calculation from Toskks doesn't tell the full story.

#51 Cliffjumper

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 12:10 PM

Hi
i am currently a feral druid tank tanked up to General in 10 ulduar

and i was looking at my Glyphs
currently i am using
- Glyph of Maul
- Glyph of Growling
- Glyph of Frezied Regeneration

is there any use in replacing these for
- Glyph of Survival Instincts
- or glyph of Berserk and Glyph of mangle


Replace frenzied regen with SI, barkskin and mangle are both not that useful


I'd like to respectfully disagree with the suggestion. Growling does nothing to help your survivability, and taunt resists are so few and far between without the glyph that I would argue its usefulness to be fairly low. I still like Frenzied Regen as another of my emergency buttons. In my opinion, replace Growling with Survival Instincts.

Glyph of Barkskin is a PVP glyph, since when you're tanking you shouldn't be crit with talents anyway, and Glyph of Mangle is more of a DPS glyph than a tanking glyph.

#52 Jak1301

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 12:37 PM

Replace frenzied regen with SI, barkskin and mangle are both not that useful


I'd like to respectfully disagree with the suggestion. Growling does nothing to help your survivability, and taunt resists are so few and far between without the glyph that I would argue its usefulness to be fairly low. I still like Frenzied Regen as another of my emergency buttons. In my opinion, replace Growling with Survival Instincts.


I find frenzied regen quite usefull with the + 20% healing on fights that u need it. i was thinking more replacing Maul or growl, with SI.
Just dont no what one, i like the maul for trash and add boss fights, and growl so you know that your taunt will work and also helps if your under hit cap. just deciding wat 1 to take out for SI

#53 Melthu

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 01:05 PM

I'd like to respectfully disagree with the suggestion. Growling does nothing to help your survivability, and taunt resists are so few and far between without the glyph that I would argue its usefulness to be fairly low. I still like Frenzied Regen as another of my emergency buttons. In my opinion, replace Growling with Survival Instincts.


Tank swaps are a relatively prominent feature of Ulduar bosses. Razorscale, Kologarn, and especially Thorim and hard mode Iron Council are designed to force tank swaps. It's also important on Hodir if you use a separate frost resist tank for Frozen Blows and can help in transition if you use different tanks for phase 1 and phase 4 of Mimiron (since the body retains aggro from phase 1). When you also consider growl/taunt's usefulness in picking up adds like pummellers on Deconstructor I can't see giving up glyph of growl in favor of frenzied regen.

#54 Charnas

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 03:33 PM

20% more healing, on top of popping frenzied regen with glyphed SI allows me to get through at least one plasma burst phase on mimiron without any external cooldowns. My preference for tanking is FR, SI, Maul glyphs. There are other times when it's nice to have that extra healing incoming as well.

If you must have the growl glyph... I'd lean toward keeping frenzied regen over SI... the additional incoming heals is more of a benefit than the 15% more health.

#55 Cliffjumper

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 09:48 PM

Tank swaps are a relatively prominent feature of Ulduar bosses. Razorscale, Kologarn, and especially Thorim and hard mode Iron Council are designed to force tank swaps. It's also important on Hodir if you use a separate frost resist tank for Frozen Blows and can help in transition if you use different tanks for phase 1 and phase 4 of Mimiron (since the body retains aggro from phase 1). When you also consider growl/taunt's usefulness in picking up adds like pummellers on Deconstructor I can't see giving up glyph of growl in favor of frenzied regen.


I've never heard of using a frost resist tank for Hodir, but in that case, where a tank swap is incredibly critical to the fight and with the FR gear on, the hit will be lower than usual, I could see this being quite useful. I generally DPS in 25 man and main/off tank in 10 mans. Without the glyph, I'm struggling to remember a missed taunt on any boss fights at all.

If I begin seeing more taunt resists, I'd probably swap out a glyph, but at this point, I would rather have more survivability than guaranteed taunts.

#56 sal

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 10:03 PM

FrR tank on hodir shouldn't be too unheard of (25man). I offspec tank it in 3pc FrR solo. The fights buffs offer enough of a TPS increase to hold it off dps and one tank allows more dps for the heroic timer.

Plate tanks can also take care of him with a defense trinket and some resistance.

#57 Cliffjumper

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Posted 08 May 2009 - 03:23 AM

FrR tank on hodir shouldn't be too unheard of (25man). I offspec tank it in 3pc FrR solo. The fights buffs offer enough of a TPS increase to hold it off dps and one tank allows more dps for the heroic timer.

Plate tanks can also take care of him with a defense trinket and some resistance.


Yes, my guild's MT wears max frost resist for Hodir. I was more referring to Melthu's statement about using a separate FrR tank when I said I had never heard of it.

#58 Melthu

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Posted 08 May 2009 - 12:09 PM

I also just tank Hodir in FrR gear, but tank swapping is a valid strat for him. I stand by the usefulness of glyph of growl in general. For the last few weeks before 3.1 I ran in a hybrid tank/dps spec without it and had a surprisingly large number of missed taunts on Gluth and 4 Horsemen. The glyph just removes an element of RNG like getting defense capped for plate tanks does.

#59 Corbetti

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Posted 08 May 2009 - 12:59 PM

I find frenzied regen quite usefull with the + 20% healing on fights that u need it. i was thinking more replacing Maul or growl, with SI.
Just dont no what one, i like the maul for trash and add boss fights, and growl so you know that your taunt will work and also helps if your under hit cap. just deciding wat 1 to take out for SI

If you can afford it, how about dual tank specs for multiple (or trash, or high threat) versus single target tanking.

Spec 1 can have Maul & Berserk and spec 2 can have SI & FR, with growl in both. The single target spec can also get 5/5 Feral Aggression by skipping Feral Instinct and 2 points in Furor.

#60 Salazay

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Posted 08 May 2009 - 04:08 PM

Yes, my guild's MT wears max frost resist for Hodir. I was more referring to Melthu's statement about using a separate FrR tank when I said I had never heard of it.


On our first normal Hodir kill, we tanked with one Fr Tank and one normal geared.

Yesterday we killed him hardmode with one tank, not wearing fr, which was healed by only one healer .. and it worked.


Anyway, i'm using Growl, SI, Maul.Thinking about switching Growl to Frenzied r., but i do have < 150 Hit and MANY bosses in Ulduar would wipe your raid if an important Taunt is missed.




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