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General Vezax


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#21 supplicium

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Posted 08 May 2009 - 07:52 AM

I've found that some times vapors have issues when they are popped in the divents in the ground, they don't appear to want to really sit in there correctly.

The character linked in your profile appears to be below level 10. This may account for your poor Patchwerk DPS.


#22 gcbirzan

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Posted 08 May 2009 - 10:55 AM

to my knowledge damage reduction effects do not reduce the damage (ie: shadow priests cannot hit dispersion on the 6/7/8 stacks to gain ridiculous mana).


That is true, tried divine protection a few nights ago, still took the same amount of damage.

#23 Vhex

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Posted 08 May 2009 - 11:05 AM

Shield walling it was inconsistent before and seems to be fully nerfed now. One attempt out of 10 I used to take full damage but I figured that was just me mis-timing it. Last time we did him over a handful of botched attempts (yay new tank!) it never once worked.

If you have a retadin with divine sacrafice it may still work though.

#24 Guest_alphonsis_*

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Posted 08 May 2009 - 05:45 PM

I've found that some times vapors have issues when they are popped in the divents in the ground, they don't appear to want to really sit in there correctly.

Thanks, that was what we were seeing. Thankfully we only had it happen on one vapor per fight, on average.

#25 Kiryojo

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Posted 08 May 2009 - 07:49 PM

Our ele shammy last night was mentioning that thunderstorm was giving him mana back so that may be a factor in dpsing out of crashes as well. Some casters are also more efficient, for example I wouldn't suggest locks dps outside of crashes ever, ours tried it a bit at first and were out of mana in a hurry.


One thing I noticed while leveling my hunter was that didn't work when you had Improved Mend Pet talented to 1/2 (but it worked at 0/2 and 2/2). Perhaps the mana restore isn't properly disabled if the spell is glyphed/unglyphed, or modified in some other way?
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#26 Snowy

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 02:49 PM

Regarding glitched vapors, one hypothesis has been that they bug out if they are killed by dots. I observed that a LOT were bugged when I was killing them a few weeks ago in 10 man, then last week we had direct DPS classes kill them and every single one worked. This could certainly use some more confirmation though, so if anyone else has observed the same behavior, feel free to speak up.

#27 Chack

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 04:24 PM

Does anyone know if the inability to dodge/parry while casting applies to mobs as well? I am always afraid to go below the expertise cap on General, so i always gimp my stats slightly to get to 26 exprtise. It's always annoying to wipe on General so i rather do not try it myself :)

#28 Tunch

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 07:25 PM

NPC's cannot dodge or parry while casting.

#29 Wish

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Posted 10 May 2009 - 05:31 AM

Regarding glitched vapors, one hypothesis has been that they bug out if they are killed by dots. I observed that a LOT were bugged when I was killing them a few weeks ago in 10 man, then last week we had direct DPS classes kill them and every single one worked. This could certainly use some more confirmation though, so if anyone else has observed the same behavior, feel free to speak up.


Of cause i can not confirm this 100%, but i realized after reading your observations, that they are identical to mine, when i try to review the evening at Vezax.

Mage + Priest (me) on one side, never had a bugged cloud.
Shadowpriest, Warlock, Holy Paladin and Restro Druid on the other side, complaining that they get one out of three.
In the various attemps, i for one time had to go to the other side, the saronite cloud was dotted by the warlock, and also taken care of by direct spells (can't say what killed it) and this was the only bugged one for me.

So your observations make sense, at least to me :)

#30 Juli

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Posted 10 May 2009 - 09:35 AM

Regarding glitched vapors, one hypothesis has been that they bug out if they are killed by dots. I observed that a LOT were bugged when I was killing them a few weeks ago in 10 man, then last week we had direct DPS classes kill them and every single one worked. This could certainly use some more confirmation though, so if anyone else has observed the same behavior, feel free to speak up.

It's also possible that if dots are causing vapor issues, that dot crits are a contributor. We know that dot crits are treated as pseudo-direct-damage spells as far as resilience calculations in PvP are concerned (from a blue post a while back), so it's possible that vapors that die to dot crits are not working right because they use a different mechanic (or perhaps the ones that die to dot crits work, and the ones that die to non-crit dots break). This could also account for the inconsistency where they sometimes work when being killed by dots. Something to investigate, anyway!

#31 Cryect

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Posted 10 May 2009 - 03:39 PM

Was one of the first theories we came up with and having a warlock only DD spells on them still caused the issue. Location seemed to be the issue with the room though haven't really experimented much to determine if its caused by the unevenness of the floor else than there seemed to be more of an issue towards the center of the room (where its more uneven) but that is pretty anecdotal evidence.
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#32 Harwin

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Posted 11 May 2009 - 11:12 PM

Was one of the first theories we came up with and having a warlock only DD spells on them still caused the issue. Location seemed to be the issue with the room though haven't really experimented much to determine if its caused by the unevenness of the floor else than there seemed to be more of an issue towards the center of the room (where its more uneven) but that is pretty anecdotal evidence.


It could be that pools close to the boss (whom we tanked in the center of the room) don't work? This would prevent healers from avoiding shadow crash entirely while standing in them, so that's a potential reason it could have been done deliberately.

We certainly noticed that there seemed to be a correlation between being close to the boss and not working, although I don't know if that's 100%. Since we tank him in the center, it could also be location based since you got a center problem as well.

#33 Machinator

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Posted 11 May 2009 - 11:58 PM

From wowwiki, not exactly a concrete source but it probably came from somewhere.

The Saronite Pools will return 0 mana if Vezax is within 15 yards the players in the pool. For the pool to return mana/deal damage, the player must be outside the Shadow Crash "dead zone".



With people spread out into groups, have there been issues with one side of the room not getting enough vapors? Or healers being kept from healing by marks, more of a 10m problem when there aren't any backups.
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#34 vorda

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 12:05 AM

From wowwiki, not exactly a concrete source but it probably came from somewhere.



With people spread out into groups, have there been issues with one side of the room not getting enough vapors? Or healers being kept from healing by marks, more of a 10m problem when there aren't any backups.



This is false, I've had a 10m kill yesterday where the tank (me) put the boss in the vapors, so healers are in melee range.

#35 Sillia

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 05:07 AM

This is false, I've had a 10m kill yesterday where the tank (me) put the boss in the vapors, so healers are in melee range.


Concur. I tanked Vezax next to the vapors last Saturday, and the healers were doing just fine with it.

How are non-warrior tanks kiting Vezax during the surge? Or are they just tanking him straight through it? I've found that even with the surge's snare, he runs faster than I do with the boot speed enchant. Do you expect a priest with Body and Soul?

#36 Pyros

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 06:02 AM

Concur. I tanked Vezax next to the vapors last Saturday, and the healers were doing just fine with it.

How are non-warrior tanks kiting Vezax during the surge? Or are they just tanking him straight through it? I've found that even with the surge's snare, he runs faster than I do with the boot speed enchant. Do you expect a priest with Body and Soul?


You just need to run sooner. I rarely get hit, rarely meaning I do still get hit sometimes, but I'd say 1 out of 15kite phases or so I get hit once, most of the time due to my own mistakes(not moving fast enough, not being at full max range before the surge starts casting, fat fingering my mouse turn and not running straight or getting stuck in one of the crappy holes in the ground). Getting hit once is no big deal either, at least as a DK I can just Runetap while running, pop a potion/healthstone if needed, and when he's done with Surge I usually pop my IBF then when repositionning to give healers time. Obviously I could just tank through it, but at least for easy mode, it seems unnecessary to put additional strain on the healers.

He definitely runs slower than you, but the first steps tend to be a bit weird because mobs in motion hit from a bigger range and his size increases when he gains the debuff, so his hitbox also increases. After that though it's easy to notice he runs slower, especially when the debuff drops and he comes zipping at you at full speed. You can use a priest, but that requires no shielding 15secs prior to next surge and the priest being in range, so shouldn't rely on it. If your other tanks can't do it, either use a warrior intervening out or a DK IBF tanking it, those are the easy ways to deal with it.

#37 Vellvette

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 06:07 AM

My guild had our first try on 25m General V tonight, and since I was one of 3 healers in our 10m attempts, I explained it to the other 4 (total of 7 healers). We decided to try to split up the healers on the MT, 3 at first until they ran oom, 3 others after that, with 1 healing the mana users getting into the vapors for mana regen. When the first 3 started healing, the other 4 were spotting just incase the 3 were having issues of whatever kind. Of course that was the plan at first. The first 3 healers' mana was great for quite some time. I ended up calling the switch on healer groups almost immediately after the first Surge of Darkness. But we ended up having to use nearly all the healers when we got to about 40% (unfortunately with the boss getting heals), and burning vapors every 30 seconds to 1 minute because of everyone getting really low. I'm here to ask on a healers perspective: managing 7 healers and making sure we always have heals on the tank, how should this be done? Is splitting up the heals like this ok to do?

Also, after the kiting from Surge of Darkness, is it suggested that the tank stay in the spot that he ends up or move him back to the middle?

Thanks!

#38 Muggins

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 06:54 AM

How are non-warrior tanks kiting Vezax during the surge? Or are they just tanking him straight through it? I've found that even with the surge's snare, he runs faster than I do with the boot speed enchant. Do you expect a priest with Body and Soul?


I tend to back up slowly while tanking him in place until i'm at his max hit range, then when the cast comes start immediately legging it(it helps if you have an audio queue for this, that is if you can hear it over sara screaming her sodding head off every 2 minutes). Once out of the 'danger area' of about 10-15 yrds i switch into unholy presence for the movement speed increase if i have the runes available as it helps to edit your new position on the fly if you spot anything that might cause problems(namely healers getting marked on the position you're running to, getting knocked back by shadow crash while on the move, etc). Obviously if your DK tank is specced unholy he doesn't have to worry about any of this because the smarmy bugger always moves at 15% speed increase as long as he's picked up IUP. A lot of the time you'll find you don't even need this because he'll pause to cast flames or throw a couple of shadow crashes around, giving you plenty of breathing room as long as you can get moving fast enough at the start.

Regarding his position: really it depends on what is happening in the fight, i tend to run him from one side of the room to the other mostly depending on where available saronite vapours are and then sit him in place, however you shouldn't be afraid to reposition him once he's finished running if it means your healers will be able to access a saronite cloud more easily.

#39 Sardaukar

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 08:00 AM

We got our first 25 man kill on him tonight after a simple change in strategy: We switched from our normal warrior MT to a DK tank. Icebound fortitude was enough to enable the DK to easily survive each Surge and without the need to kite the boss, the fight got much simpler. Removing that big variable made the fight far easier and he went down on I believe the first (maybe second) pull of DK tanking. 2x 3 healer teams rotating - one standing on top of the melee and doing all of the MT and raid healing with the other team mana'ing up in saronite patches.

#40 LittleHamster

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 08:11 AM

We use a druid tank and not kite. It's much easier than any kiting strategy, for both healers and melee interrupters. (This is in 25m, so must be doable in 10 too).




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