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#21 Aitro

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 11:03 AM

These shoulders don't flow with the style of bloodfang

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#22 Avantos

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 12:23 PM

Aitro, Nice Bloodfang boots.....er wait...
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#23 subscience

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 03:17 PM

HELLO!

[IMG]http://forums.elitis.../prohealing.jpg[IMG]

[IMG]http://forums.elitis...uploads/pro.jpg[IMG]

Holy shit, I thought they changed the stats on that staff. Very nice.

#24 subscience

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 03:19 PM

Dagger combat - the sword gets swapped to MH in certain situations. Dagger combat has been better to me though and the AQ itemization shows that Blizzard obviously wants us to use daggers.

I'm assuming you're more PvE-spec'ed, right? How's that build work for PvP (assuming you do with that char)?

#25 Wodin

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 03:27 PM

I'm assuming you're more PvE-spec'ed, right? How's that build work for PvP (assuming you do with that char)?

Yeah, that's about as PvE as it gets. How it performs in pvp is mostly based on gear abuse. It generates CP at the speed of a turtle, has no ways of controlling burst damage aside from thistle tea, and no modified openers. But I'm still a rogue coated in purple fighting people who aren't, and when there are some competent healers around I can do a lot of damage.

#26 subscience

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 03:53 PM

Just out of curiosity, would you mine posting your spec? I'm assuming that you fare very well in PvE damage output. :)

#27 Wodin

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 05:39 PM

What I am now(16/25/10):
http://www.wowhead.c...eMoxZGci00EZV0x

What I should be:
http://www.wowhead.c...coxZGci00AzZV0x

When I initially specced into combat dagger, I did the 17/24/10 thing. Then I did the math and realized there was a gap in the cycle where I was generating some SnD time that wasn't getting used. So I specced to full dagger spec and 2/3 Imp SnD and a) missed Blade Flurry terribly, and B) realized that the little extra time I was getting on SnD was patching a lot of holes where you get a DBP'd special. So yeah, it was stupid and I need to go back.


#28 Wubwub

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 05:50 PM

Personally, I haven't felt any pressure with AQ to have "First kills" and I think that's how it should be. I could be wrong but, to me atleast, there is less of a rivalry with Aeternus and more a "Homey I'm witcha" attitude like Everlast. It's enabled me to HATE THE BLACK EYED PEAS and truly enjoy raid content.

You guys put in one hell of a long haul there on the emps that day though. If nothing else spending that much time in one place deserves credit! :] Good job.

#29 tenarius

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 06:28 PM

What I should be:
http://www.wowhead.c...coxZGci00AzZV0x

So I specced to full dagger spec and 2/3 Imp SnD and a) missed Blade Flurry terribly, and B) realized that the little extra time I was getting on SnD was patching a lot of holes where you get a DBP'd special. So yeah, it was stupid and I need to go back.

Giving up 2% crit seems like a pretty substantial loss. Why not go 5/5 Dagger Spec and 3/5 Imp Offhand? Dagger spec affects both hands, and it seems like that would be a stronger combination with PB offhanded (why do you have +5 on it vs crusader or agility?) to the new AQ dagger.

And yes, Blade Flurry is awesome. I scoff at rogue who don't think Combat Daggers works for PvP (although I play a hybrid version of the spec with Improved Ambush). You haven't PVPed as a rogue until you've laid down a ZHM'd BFed ambush vanish ambush on two clothies. It's atrociously situational of course, and the use of the skill breaking stealth is a pain, but when you can line it up it's great fun. Also from a PvP perspective the additional CP generation of Seal Fate does not really stack up with the improved chance to crit ambush/bs and not miss your first two autoattacks.

But I'm hijacking your victory thread and should probably be writing this in a PM to Wodin! Congratulations on the kills, and good luck on the remainder of the dungeon.

#30 moz

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 06:30 PM

Except he's using a Pugio/CTS combo not a PB :)

#31 tenarius

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 06:37 PM

Except he's using a Pugio/CTS combo not a PB :)

I thought he was just wearing the CTS to look pretty :(

#32 Raylen

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 06:45 PM

Except he's using a Pugio/CTS combo not a PB :)

I thought he was just wearing the CTS to look pretty :(

If he ever not uses the CTS, I will stab him for having it drop on my raid :angry:

#33 Wodin

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 06:49 PM

Giving up 2% crit seems like a pretty substantial loss. Why not go 5/5 Dagger Spec and 3/5 Imp Offhand? Dagger spec affects both hands, and it seems like that would be a stronger combination with PB offhanded (why do you have +5 on it vs crusader or agility?) to the new AQ dagger.

And yes, Blade Flurry is awesome. I scoff at rogue who don't think Combat Daggers works for PvP (although I play a hybrid version of the spec with Improved Ambush). You haven't PVPed as a rogue until you've laid down a ZHM'd BFed ambush vanish ambush on two clothies. It's atrociously situational of course, and the use of the skill breaking stealth is a pain, but when you can line it up it's great fun. Also from a PvP perspective the additional CP generation of Seal Fate does not really stack up with the improved chance to crit ambush/bs and not miss your first two autoattacks.

Augh no. 2% crit is in no way better than 10% extra damage on the offhand weapon. DW Spec is probably the single best 5 talent points we can spend since it makes the gear we get scale even better.

As for getting the bonus out of dagger spec, it doesn't matter. It applies a flat aura to your character if you've got a dagger mainhanded. Easiest way to see this is record your ranged critrate before equipping a dagger, and then after. Bam, X% more crit, where X is your rank of dagger spec. I'm really unwilling to compromise my pve damage for pvp, which is why I had a rank11 mage (now 10 and falling fast since AQ is keeping us busy T_T ), and I can live with having a harder time in pvp.

As for +5, it's on the pugio because it's the second-best mainhand enchant for a dagger, and I don't want to burn the last two orbs I've got saved up till I get a C'thun weapon(which is admittedly a long ways off). The pugio only has 2 less average damage per hit than a Perditions despite being .1 faster, and I can live with giving up .6DPS on my backstabs in exchange for the 1hit/1crit/18AP. :)

Don't worry too much about hijacks. Threads wander at times, and it's an interesting discussion. :)

Edit: given that these days I'm usually just using a critstone on my offhand, I care much less about the speed of my offhand and more about the raw DPS it provides. CTS is awesome because it's got a nice spread of stats and high raw DPS, and provides the versatility to swap back and forth. I know I'm giving up some instant poison DPS, but again, it's a compromise I'll gladly make for the higher raw power in the offhand.

#34 Torael_7

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 06:55 PM

words

Hey Wodin, why not spec 16/25/10 and just drop one point from Dagger Spec for Blade Flurry...? :huh:

Oh and a different answer to subscience's question on pvp with the spec - you're basically forced to open on everything with cheapshot. This isn't entirely a bad thing as it gives you a little more control over the start...and you don't have to get behind them, either.

#35 Wodin

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 07:07 PM

Without the max improved SnD, you end up dropping into regular mode for a couple of hits or having to pop SnD a little early if you get a backstab dodged, parried(gotta love that), or blocked(also gotta love that - Huhuran can fuck herself for having a small enough model that standing "behind" her triggers the exemption in the code that pretends backstab is coming from the front). However, unless you get a really unlucky string you don't have that problem with 3/3, and that's why I want it back - those little gaps are bad.

#36 Lailla

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 07:27 PM

Personally, I haven't felt any pressure with AQ to have "First kills" and I think that's how it should be. I could be wrong but, to me atleast, there is less of a rivalry with Aeternus and more a "Homey I'm witcha" attitude like Everlast.

Same deal on our server. After a few server firsts and then falling to server seconds, we don't feel any pressure to keep pace with other guilds. We've purposely been going into the encounters without reading others' strategies. I think it's more fun that way, and our success speaks more loudly about our teamwork.

Also healing in AQ40 is way more interesting and I love my class again. <3

#37 subscience

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 08:05 PM

^ Your avatar is mesmerizing.

And, very interesting Rogue discussion ahoy. :)

#38 tenarius

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 08:25 PM

Wow. I had never bothered to test dagger spec's functionality, so that revelation is quite shocking to me, and sort of subdues all of my criticisms on offhanding CTS!

I did the math on SnD a while ago but it is good to hear your empirical tests confirming the usefulness of the full talent, as I have not yet been able to spec full PvE.

I would much rather PvP with a different class than my rogue, but since the majority of my playtime is spent on him, I'd like him to ride the Rank 11 mount (really the only reason I've pvped thus far, although I'm curious to see if the HWL weapons will be scaled with content). After I hit Rank11 I'm dropping improved ambush and 'stealing' your spec.

They ought to fix the mechanics behind dodge/parry, I've always been irritated when my backstabs are dodged or parried. Dodge/parry = in front only, backstab = behind only. Apparently rogues transcend the laws of combat.

In the interests of continuing the hijack / rogue discussion, I've been contemplating burning 50 gold and trying a 30/21 Seal Fate daggers build. The math is too cumbersome to work out, so I want to just respec for an MC clear and see how my damage output changes. It seems like it espouses everything a 'traditional' combat daggers build does (scaling-wise) but adds yet another element of scaling from Seal Fate, at the cost of a 40% reduction in backstab damage. Thoughts?

Oh, and what if any mod do you use for tracking combat data, Wodin? I hate Recap, and Damagemeters' events tracking seems off.

#39 Lailla

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 08:39 PM

^ Your avatar is mesmerizing.

And, very interesting Rogue discussion ahoy. :)

If only there really were unicorn mounts. I would give all my gold for one, easily.

#40 Wodin

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Posted 24 February 2006 - 08:54 PM

Event data I use Recap, sorry. :( The new combatstats that eliminated a bunch of information drives me up a wall, and I didn't want to hack the old one to work with 1.9.

Interestingly enough, there are some tests that are suggesting that it might not work the way I described - http://forums.worldo...mp=1#post927144

I'll have to do some more tests - it's possible they ninja-fixed it.




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