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#1 Brell

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 05:03 PM

I have leveled a warrior to 60 and am looking to spec Protection to help benefit my guild more. I have shadowed these forums for sometime and read about different builds while I was leveling and now cannot find them anymore.

Could you please help me? You can use this to plan out the build using this link:

Warrior Talent Calculator

Thanks for your time.

P.S. I read about a Protection build Praetorian really liked it was something like 15/5/31 or 20/0/31 or something.



#2 Anglakel

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 05:25 PM

This was my build when I was full protection. When your gear allows it, you will probably want to spec out of anticipation, although 445 defense from gear means you probably have some areas where you may be lacking stamina, or not using a lifegiving gem or something. I just really disagree with the 1h weapon spec unless you have some really decent dual wielding weapons like thunderyfury/maladath or something.

Just do what feels right, in protection you are really focusing your character on one task, and that is allowing your guild to progress through content with a bit more ease. Keep this goal in mind when you are selecting your talents and you really can't go wrong. Iron will is becoming increasingly cool so I always recommend that one, where many protection warriors ignore it.

#3 hellsoap

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 06:08 PM

http://www.worldofwa...255133513222151
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] >>> http://www.lightdecay.com <<<

#4 Wexia

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 06:13 PM

I was protection when I was MT for my old guild. I changed guilds and now I'm not MT, but I stay protection because I pretty much don't do anything besides raid or do the new 5-mans on this guy so I just stay this spec. Also I don't have much DPS gear so yeah.

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#5 Praetorian

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 06:27 PM

I have leveled a warrior to 60 and am looking to spec Protection to help benefit my guild more. I have shadowed these forums for sometime and read about different builds while I was leveling and now cannot find them anymore.

Could you please help me? You can use this to plan out the build using this link:

Warrior Talent Calculator

Thanks for your time.

P.S. I read about a Protection build Praetorian really liked it was something like 15/5/31 or 20/0/31 or something.

Er, I'm probably the least qualified person on here to comment about warrior specs.

My only observation was that I've found 31/5/15 (or variants, 31/4/16, etc.) to be really good compromise builds. They are definitely not protection builds. It's Arms/MS with points in the good protection talents for versatility. If I have 6 warriors on a raid, ideally I'd probably want 1 true Prot warrior, 3 31/5/15 hybrids, and then 2 pure DPS builds (Arms or Fury, whichever).

#6 Deril

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 06:33 PM

Hi

#7 rline

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 06:36 PM

13/5/33

15 != 13

#8 moz

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 06:52 PM

That's a sweet spec DI

#9 rline

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 07:04 PM

best build

#10 EgaL

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 07:52 PM

There is an interesting discussion about this topic in this thread of cq forums: click here

they recommend: this spec

#11 Wubwub

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 07:56 PM

15/5/33

Fucking hacker. We are talking legit warrior specs, not expansion builds.

#12 EgaL

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 08:00 PM

I d like to highlight this post of Quigon in the cq forum it explained me a lot.

I'm pretty surprised to see people with protection oriented builds without 1h spec, and with improved sunder instead. Of the "improved" talents, I would definitely say HS is better than sunder anyway (I often lose queued HSes by spamming other instants that pop up in the mean time). At any rate, the highest portion of our total threat generation comes from our white damage. Negating the defensive stance penalty is pretty substantial and noticeable.


No offense but you are being stupid here, so much so that I'm assuming you're either retarded or trolling. White damage is the majority of our aggro? You have got to be kidding. I put out 70-120 dps... i'm aggroing over warriors doing 600 dps. That sure as hell isn't white damage aggro. If you don't believe this, we've tanked all of MC with grey level 1 longswords to screw around before and the aggro difference was literally not noticeable. Try it - go tank with a level 1 longsword, you'll do fine.

Heroic strike removes 15 rage (12 with talents), and on top of that it COSTS you the rage that you would've built otherwise on a regular attack. Therefore an HS is basically a 30 rage attack... and it is neither the best at rage/aggro or rage/time ratios (which are of course revenge and shield slam, respectively).

Furthermore, what is this nonsense about HS's being lost to other attacks? HS and every other warrior ability are on different timers... HS IS NOT A GLOBAL. You can HS, shield block, and shield slam as fast as your fingers can fly, and your weapon can swing.

Revenge and sunder are THE best tanking abilities when you do not have excess rage - in that situation you should burn off the excess rage with HS-Shield slams. 12 point sunder is the best tanking improvement you can make more or less for low rage situations. With better and better gear, youll find yourself without rage, a lot. Wasting it on heroic strike and losing the next attack generation is straight up stupid.

You use heroic strike in high, infinite, or excess rage burn-off situations only. Using it to tank trash or even many bosses will simply have you losing aggro to a good dpser... Trust me on this, cause I've tried it - but the math speaks for itself.

Also, 1 handed spec is stupid also. You put out maybe 70 DPS as a protection spec warrior with your weapon. Don't count shield slam in there. You're looking at a 7 to 10 dps increase for 5 talent points. Thats not special damage either... how is that going to compare to the warriors putting out 450 to 650 DPS on every mob? It won't even make a difference. So many better places to waste talent points. You'd be better off with unbridled wrath by leaps and bounds if you like wasting talent for aggro in that situation.

Threat level increasing abilities
Name ---------------------- Threat
Health gained
(from certain effects)---- 0.5
Mana gained
(from certain effects)---- 0.5
Healing done------------- 0.5
Damage dealt------------ 1
Rage gained-------------- 5
Demoralizing Roar------- 42
Faerie Fire----------------- 108
Demoralizing Shout------ 175
Cleave---------------------- 500
Distracting Shot---------- 600
Heroic Strike-------------- 890
Shield Bash---------------- 910
Sunder Armor------------ 1050
Revenge------------------ 1370
Shield Slam--------------- 1950

Look at the numbers.
Plain as day.
Revenge is the best rage to hate ratio ability, by far and away.
1 revenge, for 5 rage, is equal to 1370 points of white damage (yeah white damage aggro rules). Keep in mind its even higher if you have the new AQ20 variant.
Sunder is worth 1050. Thats over 500 DPS of white damage hate if you do nothing but spam sunder (and goes up as you add revenges, and burn rage off with SS and heroic strike, you generally can outpace about 650 with misses and everything - although being practical here ignores modifiers, but the point is still obvious).
Sunder and HS can both get to 12 rage with "improved" yet sunder will still be better for aggro per strike.
The advantage? Sunder doesn't REMOVE a rage generating attack, and it is instant. Furthermore, the DPS you provide by sundering is absurd.

If you don't believe me... check out http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Aggro
(Even has a nice summary of HS at the bottom), magically it says to only use HS to burn off rage. What a coinkydink.



#13 Wubwub

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 08:03 PM

Sunder generates less threat beyond the fifth, does it not?

#14 Ultramax

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 08:05 PM

No wub, no.

#15 Wubwub

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 08:08 PM

We shall see.. We shall see.

#16 Anglakel

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 08:47 PM

I d like to highlight this post of Quigon in the cq forum it explained me a lot.

And this is what i had to say to him

I've always felt what Quigon said was true even though it has been hammered into the psyche of raiding warriors that sunder is junk. I have always used sunder, and I can't concieve of tanking with heroic strike/revenge alone like some other warriors claim they do.

However, calling heroic a 30 rage ability is a bit steep considering the fact that in defensive stance with tanking gear I would get 15 rage off the white damage i replaced heroic with in my wildest fantasy. Additionally, when anything that's worth holding agro against is attacking me in a 40 man raid, the rage situation is healthy to say the least. Also new heroic strike from AQ20 would seem to make it just a little bit more enticing.

And putting 5/5 in 1h spec seems a bit silly when most of the builds i look at on allakhazam don't have iron will (which is infinitley more useful in pve and pvp) but to each his own.

He has a lot of good imput but he's got a bit of a vendeta against heroic strike. :-/

#17 Ultramax

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 09:10 PM

I used to love Iron Will, but she's acted like a bitch lately.

#18 Legato

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 10:23 PM

When I was Prot, I went with this.
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#19 Lord BEEF

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 11:39 PM

That chart is wacked. The 1050 number for sunder comes from the amount of points a priest needs to heal to take aggro from a defiance specced warrior.

I'm pretty sure the bonus threat from sunder is equivalent to about 250 damage.

If that chart was correct, one sunder from a defiance specced warrior would be enough to keep aggro over a mage that lands a 1500 damage spell, and that doesn't happen.

Plus Quigon mentions the DPS increase from sunder but doesn't mention the fact that the DPS increase of any sunder beyond 5 is precisely zero

Also has anyone worked out the hate values of the new heroic strike and revenge yet?
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#20 Brell

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 12:26 AM

Praetorian, what would a build like that look like, where would you put the talent points for a 31/5/15 hybrid build?




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