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#21 Anglakel

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 12:31 AM

Praetorian, what would a build like that look like, where would you put the talent points for a 31/5/15 hybrid build?

I'm not Gurgthock but I used this spec for all of the learning phase of BWL
PS: I'm filthy and alliance, horde may wanna consider the other 2 points in defiance at the expense of cruelty, depending on how often you actually get to tank.

#22 moz

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 12:40 AM

Quigon is dumb

#23 Rachel

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 03:56 AM

That chart is wacked. The 1050 number for sunder comes from the amount of points a priest needs to heal to take aggro from a defiance specced warrior.

I'm pretty sure the bonus threat from sunder is equivalent to about 250 damage.

Truth~. When offtanking, my 600-ish Mortal Strikes generate way more threat than Sunder does.

But anyway, Brell, this is my current 31/5/15 build. I don't think it's the ideal one, since it lacks Last Stand and Imp Shield Block, but I'm stubborn about my 10k armor, and I at least have a Gem for bursty fights. But it still seems to work well enough for both dealing damage and tanking.

#24 Ultramax

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 05:29 AM

Can your puny minds comprehend the magnificent beauty of my spec? (It's shitty I know I don't care shutup)

http://www.wowhead.c...AMxdV0oxkZxbuoe

#25 Bart

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 05:37 AM

Here's my spec: http://www.wowhead.c...0xdZVZxizoeM0qo

One of my guilds MT's and we just began BWL. I think it works well, I'm the offtank, so naturally I am never the first to be physically tanking whatever it is (Ragnaros, Razorgore, Vael now) which is why I put points into things like imp sunder/heroic, where I'll be using as little rage as I can

I've been with this spec for about 2 weeks now, and I can't say anything bad about it!

#26 Hamlet

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 05:45 AM

That chart is wacked. The 1050 number for sunder comes from the amount of points a priest needs to heal to take aggro from a defiance specced warrior.

I'm pretty sure the bonus threat from sunder is equivalent to about 250 damage.

If that chart was correct, one sunder from a defiance specced warrior would be enough to keep aggro over a mage that lands a 1500 damage spell, and that doesn't happen.

Plus Quigon mentions the DPS increase from sunder but doesn't mention the fact that the DPS increase of any sunder beyond 5 is precisely zero

Also has anyone worked out the hate values of the new heroic strike and revenge yet?

Are you saying the relative values are wrong, or just complaining about the overall scaling convention he chose?

EDIT: Never mind, I just noticed the "damage dealt: 1" line.

#27 moz

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 05:45 AM

Here's my spec: http://www.wowhead.c...0xdZVZxizoeM0qo

One of my guilds MT's and we just began BWL. I think it works well, I'm the offtank, so naturally I am never the first to be physically tanking whatever it is (Ragnaros, Razorgore, Vael now) which is why I put points into things like imp sunder/heroic, where I'll be using as little rage as I can

I've been with this spec for about 2 weeks now, and I can't say anything bad about it!


How much do you actually overpower with a spec/role like that?

(Just curious about how you spent those 2 points)

#28 Hamlet

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 05:52 AM

At the very least, can anyone confirm the relative values of the Warrior abilities he posted?

Specifically, is that value for Shield Slam before or after the buff that happened many patches ago? Because the value posted above shows SS to be less Rage-efficient than Imp. Sunder (in fact, less Rage-efficient than unimproved Sunder), which would makes its value rather limited.

#29 Bart

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 05:54 AM

How much do you actually overpower with a spec/role like that?

(Just curious about how you spent those 2 points)

I'm assuming that was to me. I don't overpower at all really in raids I am tanking, it was just 2 points I tossed in to allow me to have a bit more fun when I have to dps or am PvP'ing. Yah, it's not the best placement of points if you're an MT but I'm not a huge fan of anything else in the Prot tree

#30 Hamlet

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 06:01 AM

Ok, I found what I believe is the original source of that data:

http://www.thesteelw...ead.php?t=12697

Quigon just coupled in the lines about damage/healing aggro without realizing that the scaling was off.

The SS value is post-1.7. It is, however, against a mob with 50% mitigation. Apparently I've been lying to tanks for a little while. What magnitude of armor to raid bosses usually have?

#31 Wubwub

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 11:32 AM

Less than a shaman.*

*With a shield.

#32 Tehax

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 10:40 PM

I do not know who Quigon is, but he is dumb, so is that thesteelwarrior.org thing.

HS is awesome.

I generally see two major complaints pop up when people discuss HS, one, it eats up rage too fast, and two, a monsters armor mitigation hurts it. Both are pretty meaningless in a raid setting. Any raid mob of significance will probably be fully sundered, have faerie fire on it, and have curse of recklessness, bringing its armor mitigation down to almost nothing. It will also hit really really hard, hard enough that only a tiny fraction of a warriors rage would come from auto attacks, the rage lost by using HS is fairly inconsequential.

ALSO

-HS does not set off the gobal cooldown, you can freely spam it and not have to stop using other abilities (particularly important in fights where you are waiting to catch fears or something, like nef)

-HS adds 157 damage, which means more hate, and the 157 damage can potentially crit. A crit means 314 bonus damage and more than 314 damage worth of hate (a crit for 2X damage generates more threat than two normal attacks for X damage)

-I use HS more than I use sunder, and I am awesome, that makes it awesome by association



#33 Anglakel

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 10:47 PM

-I use HS more than I use sunder, and I am awesome at procing Armstrong's blood craze, that makes it awesome by association

:ph34r: I love your axe spec tehax

#34 Wubwub

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 11:21 PM

-I use HS more than I use sunder, and I am awesome, that makes it awesome by association

I don't think anyone can argue that.

#35 Kytrarewn

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Posted 04 April 2006 - 02:13 PM

This is the tanking build of my guild's MT/Guildleader, which seems to work remarkably well. He has Thunderfury/CTS for dual-wielding, as well as a defense skill of 413 without anticipation, when he swaps out the Lifegiving Gem for the Ony Blood Trinket.

Seems to work out pretty (very) well, and initially looking at it, I see no "wasted points" that would be better placed elsewhere.

Our secondary tank uses a standard 31/5/15 and our third tank is using a 0/32/19 build. All of them definitely get the job done, although I must say that I would highly prefer if our secondary tank had Piercing Howl, though not at the cost of, say, Defiance.

EDIT: BTW, I highly suggest using www.wowhead.com/talent over the Blizzard Talent Calculator for stuff like this. Much, much quicker, especially on days when there's server downtime.
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#36 Wubwub

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Posted 04 April 2006 - 02:19 PM

Seems to work out pretty (very) well, and initially looking at it, I see no "wasted points" that would be better placed elsewhere.


No no, you see.. If you look in the fury tree you can clearly see a point spent in piercing howl. Also 5 in one hand weapon spec.


http://www.worldofwa...250110530220101 There are some wasted talent points in here, unfortunately. It's still pretty straight forward. Anticipation is nice since it's 10 defense you can exchange for stamina in gear, if you so choose.

PS - Drake Fang Talisman is a wonderful passive tank trinket. It's a shame that DPS hogs it.

#37 Kytrarewn

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Posted 04 April 2006 - 02:27 PM

Seems to work out pretty (very) well, and initially looking at it, I see no "wasted points" that would be better placed elsewhere.


No no, you see.. If you look in the fury tree you can clearly see a point spent in piercing howl. Also 5 in one hand weapon spec.

Well, from what I can see from my panoramic view of any given mob's ass during an encounter, we tend to use Piercing Howl pretty often in our raids, especially during things that aren't quite at the "perfect farm status" point.

Maybe at some point it would be more worth swapping it out for a few more points in arms for Imp HS, but for now it seems to help quite a bit with "zergs" in various encounters.

PS - Drake Fang Talisman is a wonderful passive tank trinket. It's a shame that DPS hogs it.


I hate you for even suggesting that...
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#38 Wubwub

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Posted 04 April 2006 - 02:30 PM

Wait, are you alliance?

And I'm sorry but it's true. 2 hit and 1 dodge? Fuck yeah that's tank shit right there.

#39 Kytrarewn

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Posted 04 April 2006 - 02:34 PM

Wait, are you alliance?

And I'm sorry but it's true. 2 hit and 1 dodge? Fuck yeah that's tank shit right there.

No, Gilneas Horde. And I agree that DFT could definitely be useful for a tank, but given that we've only had two drop so far, and that I'm a rogue, I'd prefer to just delude myself that it's a purely DPS trinket.

I know where you're going with the whole Alliance thing and Earthbind, but Earthbind doesn't really work as well on, say, Green Drakonids on Nefarian Phase 1, so Piercing Howl adds quite a bit of control to the zergs.

Again, once we get things on a more perfect farm status, it could potentially be worth switching out, but I can definitely a benefit in having it in the raid.
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#40 Wubwub

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Posted 04 April 2006 - 02:37 PM

I reckon so. I've never really dropped earthbind in phase 1 Nef that I can think of. Wait yes I have, just not often.

Pro fucking tanking trinkets:

http://www.thottbot.com/?i=40548
http://www.thottbot.com/?i=43878
http://www.thottbot.com/?i=35991
http://www.thottbot.com/?i=38253





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