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#61 moz

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 06:05 AM

Tehax priority.

You are dead to me.

#62 Lord BEEF

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 07:16 AM

Missing while tanking fucking sucks a lot and is why I should get boots of the shadow flame while rogues enjoy bloodfang and deathdealer's
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#63 Wubwub

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 12:08 PM

Missing while tanking fucking sucks a lot and is why I should get boots of the shadow flame while rogues enjoy bloodfang and deathdealer's

The man has a point. +hit gear tank priority imo.

#64 Anglakel

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 03:12 PM

I don't think any amount of +hit will fix the buggy druid miss rates in forms. :-/

#65 Wubwub

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 12:16 AM

I don't think any amount of +hit will fix the buggy druid miss rates in forms. :-/

Well that's because fuck druids.

#66 Elerion

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 12:31 AM

Hush, don't scare the druids away, I want my innervate.





Actually, after 1.10 I don't need it. Scare the fuckers.

#67 Thommy

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 03:59 AM

Back to the original post...

I think a tank starting out should look toward dmg midigation and block in MC/some of BWL. I haven't heard of a modifier max, but knowing blizzard I'm sure it's hiding around somewhere. Styleens should not be passed on by any tank unless you have a wealth of trinkets to choose from, and you are very, very, high on +parry and +dodge. I'm a big advocate of +block and +block dmg, and from my experience, I don't understand how this can be a negative thing. I've tanked Nef and others up to Sartura. I think spamming shield block is your best bet on spike dmg reduction hands down. I block for about 220 and that is a huge help in many situations. I'm not going to stop a Broodlord 6k MS or a 4k Nef swipe during call, but when people are prepared for spike, it makes a big difference compared to when they aren't.

Bottom line...

Relying on a 25%/25% parry/dodge is tough to rest your progress on, when reduced dmg taken/gained rage/increased aggro gaining ability through rage, simply seem to help the raid more.

It is benifical to have a blocking and a dodge/parry set, and a block/block dmg set laid out to help in certain encounters. If the target in question is hitting you for consistant 2k+, a dodge/parry set may be in order.

#68 Anglakel

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 05:41 AM

I block for about 220

-whatwhat-
oh ok.

#69 Tehax

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 06:52 AM

I block for I think 180 wearing wrath, swapping in 3 pieces of might would add 30 more for 210, where is the other 10 coming from?

#70 moz

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 07:12 AM

I think spamming shield block is your best bet on spike dmg reduction hands down.

:w-hat: That doesn't even make any sense.

I too would like to know where you get 220 from (though wearing 5/3 might seems *highly* situational at best if you have 8/8 -- actually I don't know why you'd ever do it considering the bonus you give up, as well as extra mitigation).

EDIT: Actually, I would think 216 or so would be possible by swapping in an Aegis of the Blood god. With the way the gear is designed, there is really no need (or way) to explicitly put together a 'blocking set'. You'll naturally use 5/3 till you have 7 or 8 wrath.

Also: fixed

Styleens should not be passed on by any tank



#71 Wubwub

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 01:51 PM

I am posting in this thread, clearly Xel is inept.

#72 Thommy

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 05:15 PM

I've actually gotten up to 225 with str pots, str totems, and i sadly had a +str enchant on my weapon (waiting on that last orb for crusader). I only have 6 peices of wrath so I do the 5 wrath/3 might for pretty much everything. No use giving up that bonus for one piece of marginally better gear.

Yes I do have an Aegis of the Blood god, because I have never seen a better shield drop (Chromaggus plays mean jokes). It doesn't have the stam of another shield, but it has skill def, 2500ish armor and probably the highest + block dmg out there. It's good until you stumble on a bulwark.

As far as the spamming shield block for reducing spike dmg, i guess i do agree with you to some extent. I was drunk as hell last night and misworded. It's great for reducing every incoming melee hit by that said 220, and if you do have 8/8 wrath 4% parry can help quite a bit too. When thinking things through most spike dmg is magic dmg (i.e. shadow flame) and there really isn't much that can be done short of constantly chugging resist pots. Blocking for 200+ and 100% of the time help reduce those strings of crushing blows, that will often bring a tank down.

#73 moz

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 07:13 PM

See that is what I don't understand about the statement. How does blocking for 200 even remotely counteracting spike damage? Plus, I disagree with your comment that the majority of spike damage is magic-based and hence unavoidable. Actually, these type of attacks can be predicted a lot of the time and priests can shield, queue up a heal etc. The fun ones are mobs with thrash, or if you get a nasty crushing blow or crit (rare these days).

When a mob is hitting you for 2000, blocking 200 of it, while helpful isn't really mitigating spike damage. Every tank should have shield block up most of the time anyway, that's a given -- however, it doesn't really have anything to do with mitigating spike damage.

#74 Hamlet

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 07:45 PM

Brief calculation I did for one of our tanks yesterday about his 8/8 Wrath bonus:

First of all, he's 31/4/16 right now (so no ISB), and his total avoidance is about 35% dodge/parry/miss (he's like the Ancient Mariner; he stoppeth one of three :laugh: ).

He gets to cast SB for a block every 5 seconds, so once every 3 or so melee hits from a boss. His natural block is about 25% otherwise, so lets say he blocks about half of the hits that are not avoided. This leaves him blocking about 1/3 of the swings against him.

So, on about 1.3% of the melee swings against him, he procs 100% parry. 35% of the time, the next swing would have been avoided anyway, so the bonus adds, overall, about 1% parry on average.

This is rises to about 2% for a tank with ISB who has it up nearly all the time.

#75 Rachel

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Posted 07 April 2006 - 12:05 AM

Styleen's is nice. It's not as good a tanking trinket as those three.

Maybe you should learn a thing or three from me. :V

5% block is pretty fucking stupid when you're spamming shield block because you have infinite rage anyhow. Your defense in pro gear is typically over 425, and you have plenty of room to spare in that respect. You should have already dropped golden hive for elementium threaded if that's your bag and this is the case. And after that, dropping Styleen's for any of those trinkets, with lifegiving or one of the other two remaining, is a really good idea since losing 24 block isn't really worth it when a boss two shots you. The burst mitigation is much nicer.

Plus two fucking percent hit FUCK god damn.

Well, as has been said, the +hit is nice for when threat or misses are an issue. If I had one, I would certainly use it in some situations. But I don't think 5% block is stupid. The idea is to try and get 25% before shield block so you have a flat 100% chance to block X damage every five seconds (or more often with improved). It doesn't do much for burst damage, no, but it's still a reliable a flat reduction. And in cases like mine, it's a bit more chance to parry. All of that just feels more valuable than 1% dodge, especially since the 13 defense on Styleen's technically adds up to slightly more avoidance anyway (.52% parry, .52% dodge).

I also don't think you can really "spare" defense. At 425-ish, you can still receive crits from raid bosses, though it's apparently less than a 2% chance. I like having a balance of stats, and defense offers a lot of benefits. This is why I value Golden Hive much more than Elementium Threaded, and I don't seem to be the only person that thinks this way. It's also why, despite singing the praises of block, I wouldn't trade my Bulwark for an Aegis just for the slightly higher block value, and to go from 98% to 100%.

Maybe I'm just a silly woman with crazy ideas, but I don't seem to die much while tanking so w/e.

#76 sekdar

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Posted 07 April 2006 - 05:53 PM

You need 440 defense to be immune to raid boss crits. 425 is for level 60s, add 5 per additional mob level.

#77 diospadre

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Posted 07 April 2006 - 07:28 PM

This is why I value Golden Hive much more than Elementium Threaded, and I don't seem to be the only person that thinks this way.

because elementium threaded sucks ass




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