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#1 Forfeit

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 02:09 AM

Hello, I've been reading your forums for quite some time and have finally worked up the guts to make an account and post. Currently I am in a three guild raiding alliance that has all of MC on farm and several Ragnaros kills. The first question I have is for the rogues in Elitist Jerks concerning the gear setup they have. I am currently 20/31/0 sword specced with a Vis'kag and a Brutality Blade in the offhand, I also have 6/8 nightslayer. My question is now that we are on the verge of moving into the world of the tier two armor sets. I'd like to keep the five piece bonus from Nightslayer and was wondering which pieces between bloodfang and nightslayer you would keep.


My other question is more of a predicament. We've been having issues motivating people to move from what we currently have on farm into the new untested territory of Blackwing Lair. I think that part of the issue is that we (Blue Dragons) came into the raid alliance we are currently in with working Molten Core strategies for all the bosses except Ragnaros, as such with the members of our guild and the ability of our allied guilds to rapidly adapt and learn the encounters we powered through MC in near record time for our server. However, sadly. It's been almost six weeks since we've started killing Rag and in that time we have only had one night of BWL. We are having severe issues with lack of people signing up and others not showing when they are signed up. It's rather frustrating when you've been 60 for well over a year now like myself and have not been able to progress past the raid instance for dummies.

Please, help. Any suggestions or sage advice as to how we can motivate people to go into the next big dungeon would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you sincerely,

Forfeit
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#2 EJforumsaccount

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 02:21 AM

Well, I'm sorry for responding and not being in EJ first of all.

For raiding, the 5 piece Nightslayer bonus isn't really all that great except possibly for MC trash. When in MC do you sit back and regen energy to 110? I don't think I do, I generally never go above 60. Unless you pvp a lot and want to keep the bonus for that burst, I'd say pick up the whole Bloodfang set.

I use the same weapons as you, just my 2 cents.

Edit: About which pieces to pick up, the Bracers, Pants and Helm are really nice. If you want to pvp (which I'm assuming you do) then the gloves are also helpful.

#3 Kalman

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 03:11 AM

BF Boots and Bracers are categorically better than NS. I'd go with those two plus one from helm/pants, if you really wanted 5/3.

I don't think it's worth it for raiding, as a sword rogue, to have 5 piece NS - most of the time. On a few fights it is (Chromaggus, for instance).
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#4 Forfeit

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 03:15 AM

Well currently The pieces of tier 1 I do not have are my boots and pants. I'm still rocking the plaid panties of pwnage (Devilsaur). I do at some point plan on getting my full tier 2 but currently my DKP is less than impressive and I need to really pick and choose which pieces to pick up.

#5 EJforumsaccount

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 03:23 AM

BF Boots and Bracers are categorically better than NS. I'd go with those two plus one from helm/pants, if you really wanted 5/3.

I don't think it's worth it for raiding, as a sword rogue, to have 5 piece NS - most of the time. On a few fights it is (Chromaggus, for instance).

Should probably listen to Kalman, I'm not up to Chromaggus yet. :)

I imagine it's useful there due to the downtime allowing for regen?

#6 Kytrarewn

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 03:24 AM

BF Boots and Bracers are categorically better than NS. I'd go with those two plus one from helm/pants, if you really wanted 5/3.

I don't think it's worth it for raiding, as a sword rogue, to have 5 piece NS - most of the time. On a few fights it is (Chromaggus, for instance).

I'd disagree. NS boots. Helm, Bracers, Pants from BF, IMO.

Boots are really a pretty small upgrade over NS if you don't count the dodge or resists.
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#7 EJforumsaccount

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 03:28 AM

Nightslayer and Bloodfang pants are also very minutely different.

The dodge and resists on Bloodfang Boots are really awesome. In both cases you're gaining about 5 AP - except with BF Boots you're gaining 1 dodge. It's a toss up really.

#8 Kytrarewn

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 04:04 AM

Nightslayer and Bloodfang pants are also very minutely different.

The dodge and resists on Bloodfang Boots are really awesome. In both cases you're gaining about 5 AP - except with BF Boots you're gaining 1 dodge. It's a toss up really.

With BF boots, you're losing Agi, Losing Stam, and gaining 5AP and 10FR, as well as the 1 Dodge.

With the BF pants, you're gaining agi, gaining stam, gaining resist, and gaining AP. A better "feeling" upgrade, as far as I'm concerned.
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#9 EJforumsaccount

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 04:07 AM

BF Boots have the same FR as the Boots, and Arcane Resist? Hardly worth mention. You're gaining the same amount of AP with both of them, the only noteworthy difference is the tiny amount of dodge and stamina you'll be gaining, you'd gain more dodge from the Boots anyway.

#10 Forfeit

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 04:20 AM

Sorry I haven't been more active in this thread as I was the one who posted it, we had a rough night in MC. New recruits... lucifron... imps.... two core hound groups at once... ugh. Anyway. The reason I asked the difference is because I've looked at them and Bloodfang for the most part looks like a sidegrade.

#11 Euronymous

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 04:25 AM

are you serious

#12 EJforumsaccount

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 04:28 AM

Sorry I haven't been more active in this thread as I was the one who posted it, we had a rough night in MC. New recruits... lucifron... imps.... two core hound groups at once... ugh. Anyway. The reason I asked the difference is because I've looked at them and Bloodfang for the most part looks like a sidegrade.

Look at the rest of the sets, there's a very marginal upgrade throughout all of them, with a few exceptions.

Wtb Deathdealer. :ph34r:

#13 Forfeit

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 04:45 AM

are you serious

We are almost to the point of killing Rag without consumables (we do a "dry run" before we do every real attempt, our best was 48% before phase 1) and yes... tonight was just... horrid. Two wipes on Ony because some jackass pulled warders and two wipes on Luci, one because the new recruits don't understand 13 people yelling at them on both vent, raid, and /y chat to get out of range of his curses, the other because someone got feared into the imps and ran back into Luci's room. We recently had to re-open recruiting because we lost a few of our members to the top raiding guild horde side. I have a bit of a bad taste. It somewhat boggles me how a new person can go through rag doing everything they're supposed to do then screw the whole raid over.... on Luci.

Ah well, in a day or two I'll be laughing about it... I should start charging them my repair bills.




Edit: By phase 1 I meant his first submerge... it's been a long night.

#14 Kalman

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 08:20 AM

BF Boots and Bracers are categorically better than NS. I'd go with those two plus one from helm/pants, if you really wanted 5/3.

I don't think it's worth it for raiding, as a sword rogue, to have 5 piece NS - most of the time. On a few fights it is (Chromaggus, for instance).

I'd disagree. NS boots. Helm, Bracers, Pants from BF, IMO.

Boots are really a pretty small upgrade over NS if you don't count the dodge or resists.

NS gloves/shoulders are categorically better than BF for DPS, which leaves us with boots, bracers, chest, head, and legs.

Boots:
NSBoots: 26 Agi, 18 Sta, 7 SR
BFBoots: 6 Str, 25 Agi, 17 Sta, 10 FR, 1% dodge

Like I said. Categorically better. Not to mention the fact that I wouldn't spend DKP on NS boots, considering the Blooddrenched out of ZG are better (for DPS).

Head:
NSCover: 6 Str, 20 Agi, 19 Sta, 10 FR, 2% crit
BFHood: 19 Str, 27 Agi, 25 Sta, 10 FrR, 10SR, 1% crit

20 AP vs. ~.75% crit is a marginal trade; I value crit at around 25 AP, making .75% worth around 18 AP, meaning the two are almost equal for DPS. BF comes out *slightly* ahead for me, but it isn't anywhere near clear cut.

Pants:
NS: 10/33/15/1%crit
BF: 11/37/17/1%crit

BF is a clear upgrade again. And the bracers aren't even worth comparing - BF bracers are a ton better.

Boots, bracer, pants, unless you have access to the chest... which he doesn't, nor will any time soon.
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#15 Judia

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 09:49 AM

Hello, I've been reading your forums for quite some time and have finally worked up the guts to make an account and post. Currently I am in a three guild raiding alliance that has all of MC on farm and several Ragnaros kills. The first question I have is for the rogues in Elitist Jerks concerning the gear setup they have. I am currently 20/31/0 sword specced with a Vis'kag and a Brutality Blade in the offhand, I also have 6/8 nightslayer. My question is now that we are on the verge of moving into the world of the tier two armor sets. I'd like to keep the five piece bonus from Nightslayer and was wondering which pieces between bloodfang and nightslayer you would keep.


My other question is more of a predicament. We've been having issues motivating people to move from what we currently have on farm into the new untested territory of Blackwing Lair. I think that part of the issue is that we (Blue Dragons) came into the raid alliance we are currently in with working Molten Core strategies for all the bosses except Ragnaros, as such with the members of our guild and the ability of our allied guilds to rapidly adapt and learn the encounters we powered through MC in near record time for our server. However, sadly. It's been almost six weeks since we've started killing Rag and in that time we have only had one night of BWL. We are having severe issues with lack of people signing up and others not showing when they are signed up. It's rather frustrating when you've been 60 for well over a year now like myself and have not been able to progress past the raid instance for dummies.

Please, help. Any suggestions or sage advice as to how we can motivate people to go into the next big dungeon would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you sincerely,

Forfeit
60 Troll Rogue Officer of Blue Dragons.

We solved this in a very simple way.
Dont turn up to BWL for 2 weeks then you cannot turn up to MC.

Its amazing how many people can find 1 night in 2weeks for BWL if they cant goto MC otherwise. Once you get a Boss or two down, attendance will improve. Honestly with all the strats and the lag fixes, BWL isnt anything like as hard to learn as it once was.

Judia
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#16 Zantetsuken-EU

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 09:57 AM

builds builds builds....

well, i use whatever i feel like tbh, i carry roughly 11 weapons on me every raid and swap per encounter, as well as full BF and NS gloves and shoulders. Not to mention resist gear....

i'm a firm believer in using what you like for a rogue, either way you can muller damage on a mob. don't ask me about pvp builds though, although i did try a haemorage build for one mc run with a cts and a pugio and it worked quite well

#17 Leviandan

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 01:49 PM

i'm a firm believer in using what you like for a rogue, either way you can muller damage on a mob. don't ask me about pvp builds though, although i did try a haemorage build for one mc run with a cts and a pugio and it worked quite well

May I ask where you got that Pugio of yours? Because you certainly didn't get it in Refusion :blink:

#18 EJforumsaccount

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 02:01 PM

I'd also like to know why your guild has no problem with you taking 11 weapons just so you can "muller" out damage in new and imaginative ways depending on how you feel at the time!

#19 frmorrison

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 02:31 PM

BF isn't a big upgrade over NS, but I would say that each BF piece is slightly better.

To attendance, say to your guild that you need to do BWL before they do MC. Lower the DKP awarded for MC, increase the DKP awarded for BWL.

#20 subscience

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 03:08 PM

From what I've seen and experienced personally, the transition from MC to BWL makes or breaks guilds.

It's easy to show up to MC every week and auto-follow someone for free epics. But as soon as you transition into BWL, you face two pretty damn hard bosses (considering you're coming from the likes of Gehennas, Lucifron, and the mass-Dispel fest that is MC) that will really test the mettle of your guild.

There's ways to add incentives for showing up to BWL raids via DKP or some other quantifiable reward, but a few EJ posters believe that showing up and getting a raid spot is something that is earned rather than given. If not, you could always try to recruit more or add guilds to your raiding alliance.




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