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Twin Emps


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#121 Whitemane

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 12:37 AM

I had a Greater Arcane Pot handy for times when it would get dicey but overall they just healed me through it without too many issues.

Our warlock emps tanks are pretty much capped on SR (315). As for warlock aggro, hmm what spell would generate a lot of threat? :o

Did you ever use the arcane protection for anything useful? Did it save you? It shouldn't, arcane bursts happen too often and the scenarios where it might get tricky are somewhat difficult to see when standing behind him I would guess.

Shadow bolt + arcane burst with an exploding bug near some healers and then a blizzard hitting a different group of healers at the same time, that's the scenario that usually did it for us :(

#122 moz

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 12:44 AM

When the average arcane burst is doing more damage than an unbalancing strike, being able to mitigate a large chunk of that for the next round came in handy a couple of times when I was dipping dangerously low.

Obviously, I prefer (and I am sure healers do too) doing the encounter with my warlock buddy but it was interesting trying something new this past timer. Shame about the bug aggro, I wanted to whip out TF and smack Vek'lor around a bit :(

#123 Whitemane

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 12:47 AM

When the average arcane burst is doing more damage than an unbalancing strike, being able to mitigate a large chunk of that for the next round came in handy a couple of times when I was dipping dangerously low.

Obviously, I prefer (and I am sure healers do too) doing the encounter with my warlock buddy but it was interesting trying something new this past timer. Shame about the bug aggro, I wanted to whip out TF and smack Vek'lor around a bit :(

Hrm, guess the healers just need some practice in healing through it then.

#124 Saedere

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 06:07 PM

Warlock stands inside Vek'nilash's model while the warrior is at max melee range. Teleport happens. Warlock immediately runs away at full speed. By the time Vek'lor begins casting, the warlock is surprisingly far away. Try it out.

We are working on the twin emps at the moment and using transitions where the warlocks get initial aggro. Overall things seem to be working. One of the warlocks put this together to describe what he is doing, and what happens on the transitions when he dies.

http://www.geocities...ke/twinemps.htm

We have come up with some ideas to keep him up, but any ideas on what we should do would help.

Ideas so far:

1) Arcane protection potions for these 'blast upon transition' situations.
2) We have three HoTs and a shield available, we should make sure they are all up at the 5 second call.
3) Swiftmend on uppercut, as well as healspam from the healers assigned to the warlock.

#125 Hamlet

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 06:12 PM

The Warlock prox aggro transitions are still perfectly doable, you just get Arcane Bursted more often. Has anyone yet found a reliable way to avoid this? It is rather annoying.

Also, one thing that wiped us yesterday--after port, Warlock immediately takes an Arcane Burst and a melee crit, instantly killing him. Any ways to avoid this minor possibility?

#126 Praetorian

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 06:12 PM

Do you flask your warlocks? Unless they have Soul Link an unflasked warlock tank is playing an endless game of Russian Roulette on the Emps.

With a flask, it shouldn't be a big deal... I mean, you know when the dangerous moments are coming up. You can start precasting long heals as the teleport begins, such that if a Burst happens, healing is there within a fraction of a second.

Also, yeah, Arcane Protection Pots.

#127 Saedere

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 06:17 PM

Do you flask your warlocks? Unless they have Soul Link an unflasked warlock tank is playing an endless game of Russian Roulette on the Emps.

With a flask, it shouldn't be a big deal... I mean, you know when the dangerous moments are coming up. You can start precasting long heals as the teleport begins, such that if a Burst happens, healing is there within a fraction of a second.

Also, yeah, Arcane Protection Pots.

Ok, sounds like we are on track. We flasked the warlocks once we were getting somewhere. I don't think all our warlocks have soul link, but we flasked them both (one soul link, one not, I believe).

Basically, we healers just need to get the timing down.

Thanks.

#128 Homercles

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 10:15 PM

how high of life/Shadow resis can the warlock tanks get? and what spell do they use to hold agro?

flasked and soul linked and 250-300ish spell damage (and pre-nerf Blasted Lands buff, [edit] and another warlock's imp :-)

Instant Uppercut plus arcane burst doesn't really faze you with that sort of hp and mitigation, until your pet dies. Then it's time to worry.

#129 Arnath

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 10:27 PM

Just to get an idea of what to aim for, could one (or more) of the warlocks that tank the Twin Emps post their gear? Thanks.

#130 Hamlet

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 07:05 PM

Instant Uppercut plus arcane burst doesn't really faze you with that sort of hp and mitigation, until your pet dies. Then it's time to worry.

We just do the whole thing without Soul Link. Somehow our healers find this easier than actually dealing with a target that doesn't show up on CTRA :rolleyes:

--------

Really weird wipe yesterday; I want to see whether anyone's seen anything like this. Warlock is in position under Vek'nilash waiting for a port. Big flash of light appears, suddenly Warlock is dead and Vek'lor is running around murdering everyone. Warlock checks combat log, and finds out that he got 1-shotted by a UBS. Not only was there no earthly reason for that to happen, but the Warrior (who was still right there) didn't seem to pick up prox aggro. Any idea?

#131 Brando

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 07:10 PM

Sorry for resurrecting this old thread. I'm in a horde guild that has been stuck on these guys for a very long time now. Mainly due to attendance and member burn out plus picking up new recruits more than anything else. We are using warrior tanks for both Vek'lor and Vek'nilash due to only one warlock having solid attendance. The warriors are eating the arcane bursts instead of shadowbolts and our healers are having no problem keeping them up. Our DPS is fine as well, last nights attempts we were around 40% at about 7 minutes in. The problem is that Vek'lor would eventually aggro a healer right after a teleport who got off a big crit heal, usually a healer who is healing the tank who is on Vek'nilash at that moment. So he then runs across the room slaughtering everyone.

Is our only option to just make sure our healers have Tranquil Air totem and that they wait a couple of seconds after a crit heal before casting again or is this strategy just ridiculously based on luck for Horde??

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

#132 chalon

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 07:19 PM

I'd say on each side make one group for the healers that are using their big heals, that are Shaman + 4 healers and give them Tranquil Air. That will still leave you with 2-3 Shaman for DPS groups or whatever. Also make sure your Warrior chain spams Battle Shout when Vek'lor ports in, as it will give a slight amount of threat.

#133 Erongg

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 07:19 PM

Sorry for resurrecting this old thread. I'm in a horde guild that has been stuck on these guys for a very long time now. Mainly due to attendance and member burn out plus picking up new recruits more than anything else. We are using warrior tanks for both Vek'lor and Vek'nilash due to only one warlock having solid attendance. The warriors are eating the arcane bursts instead of shadowbolts and our healers are having no problem keeping them up. Our DPS is fine as well, last nights attempts we were around 40% at about 7 minutes in. The problem is that Vek'lor would eventually aggro a healer right after a teleport who got off a big crit heal, usually a healer who is healing the tank who is on Vek'nilash at that moment. So he then runs across the room slaughtering everyone.

Is our only option to just make sure our healers have Tranquil Air totem and that they wait a couple of seconds after a crit heal before casting again or is this strategy just ridiculously based on luck for Horde??

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

See: Praetorian's posts on page 1 of this thread, posts #15 and 18.

#134 Praetorian

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 07:20 PM

Since I made that post we have had two kills with a warrior melee tanking Vek'lor. As long as the warrior spams battle shout the entire time, in my experience, it's been OK and we haven't had heal aggro issues. I still vastly prefer healing a warlock tank though, but we don't always have properly-geared ones.

#135 Brando

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 07:32 PM

Gurg, on those last 2 were your shamans using TA for the healers like Chalon is suggesting or were they all helping out the melee DPS??

Our warriors are pretty good but maybe we've just spent so much time getting over the hurdle of the healers being awake with the blizzards/bugs that this was glossed over.

#136 Praetorian

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 07:35 PM

No TA. If a warrior with Defiance gets the prox aggro and then uses battleshout nonstop, he should hold aggro for the full cycle. This does mean that people in general need to be mindful of their healing aggro, though. If I land a 4k crit heal for the full amount early in a given cycle when we aren't using a warlock tank, I'm going to take a long break from healing on that cycle and trust others to pick up the slack.

#137 Auphi

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Posted 11 August 2006 - 02:17 AM

Forgive me for resurrecting this thread, but the current Twin Emps thread has more to do with healing the Tanks (Whether they be Warriors or Warlocks) and I didn't want to derail it into execution.

My guild will soon be attempting the Twin Emps using Warlock tanks. Having done my due diligence, I am a little wary doing the 'range dance' to grab proximity aggro each transition. I am also aware that some guilds let the Warrior grab proximity aggro regardless of the Emp using a Warlock pulling Caster off with Searing Pains afterwards.

My question: Is it at all feasible to use Curse of Doom to smooth out these transitions? My pet idea is to use Warriors to grab proximity aggro and use CoD to rip it right off in the case of Caster . The only tricky part appears to be the pull, which will have to be done with CoD. (Or it could be done with Searing, and have CoD worked into the next transition). If CoD resists, simple searing pain spam will pull it off quickly enough. CoD isn't the lynchpin, it's just used a tool to smoother over transitions.

Am example of a transition should suffice:
Caster teleports over
Proximity aggro is given to the Warrior
CoD procs.
Aggro is transferred to the Warlock.
CoD is reapplied.
Searing Pain spam

-30 seconds later-
Melee teleports over
Warlock sits there looking pretty

-30 seconds later-
Caster teleports over
Proximity aggro is given to the Warrior
CoD procs.
...

#138 Chicken

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Posted 11 August 2006 - 10:31 AM

My question: Is it at all feasible to use Curse of Doom to smooth out these transitions? My pet idea is to use Warriors to grab proximity aggro and use CoD to rip it right off in the case of Caster . The only tricky part appears to be the pull, which will have to be done with CoD. (Or it could be done with Searing, and have CoD worked into the next transition). If CoD resists, simple searing pain spam will pull it off quickly enough. CoD isn't the lynchpin, it's just used a tool to smoother over transitions.

This won't work, the teleport is not exactly every 30 seconds, the Twins can decide to wait a bit after it's timer is up before they actually teleport.

If you want to do it with Warlock tanks taking aggro from the Warriors on the caster, you'll have to rely mostly on Searing Pain to get the aggro in the first place, and your caster DPS will have to wait until the Warlock has aggro before attacking. The warrior on that side will probably take a few shadow bolts though.




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