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The new Shield Slam


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#1 Moleva

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Posted 22 May 2006 - 03:42 AM

I'm curious if anyone has gone about testing the innate threat level on the new Shield Slam? Since the damage capacity is down this coming patch, I'm hoping they beefed up the innate threat it has.

#2 Kenco

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Posted 25 May 2006 - 11:39 AM

Just tested it then, it's the same as before.

Warrior with defiance in def stance does hit for 59, hit for 60, shield slam for 652, 1 rage gain from shield block.
Druid without talents, outside melee range, takes 3877 healing to pull aggro (3871 did not pull aggro).
Druid heal = 3871 - 3877
druid threat = heal * 0.5 = 1935.5 - 1938.5
warrior threat = druid threat / 1.3 = 1488.8 - 1491.2
war threat - 1 rage gain = war threat - 5 = 1483.8 - 1491.2 (rage gain not effected by stance)
damage + shield slam (no stance) = (war threat - rage) / 1.45 = 1023.3 - 1028.5
shield slam threat = above - 771 damage = 252.3 - 253.9,

which is consistent with the current value of ~250.

#3 Moleva

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Posted 25 May 2006 - 02:10 PM

Okay, thank you very much! ^^

#4 Deris

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Posted 25 May 2006 - 04:07 PM

K so I don't get it. what was the point of changing shield slam if all they did was knock 10 rage off of the cost? Most main tanks aren't exactly hurting for rage :>.

#5 Praetorian

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Posted 25 May 2006 - 04:11 PM

K so I don't get it. what was the point of changing shield slam if all they did was knock 10 rage off of the cost? Most main tanks aren't exactly hurting for rage :>.

Well:
1) It will continue to scale in the future with more AP, while current raid tanks will basically get the old version of SS for less rage.
2) When you're tanking a raid boss hitting you for 2000 a pop, no, rage isn't an issue. But BWL/AQ-geared tanks definitely do not have infinite rage in many situations in which aggro matters quite a lot.

#6 diospadre

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Posted 25 May 2006 - 04:53 PM

But BWL/AQ-geared tanks definitely do not have infinite rage in many situations in which aggro matters quite a lot.

Yeah, "you will always have 100 rage" is a common misconception. More often than not, especialy in AQ40, I am really hurting for rage. Even when tanking those bosses that unload a lot of damage into me I find it very easy to keep my rage under ten.

#7 Praetorian

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Posted 25 May 2006 - 05:13 PM

Yep. If your tank is sitting at 100 rage and you aren't fighting Vael or a handful of other mobs (e.g., Berserk Huhuran or Ouro, Vengeance Kri, Ignite Flesh Chromaggus, etc.) your tank is fucking up.

#8 Lojze

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Posted 21 June 2006 - 08:56 PM

I know shield slam is a great ability in terms of threat/second, but I was wondering if anybody had done some calculations to determine how the new shield slam stacks up against sunder armor and heroic strike in terms of threat/rage.

I was messing around during my lunch hour, and I did some *very rough* calculations:

Sunder armor in defensive stance with defiance = 378 threat
378 threat/12 rage (improved) = 31.5 threat/rage

Shield slam damage against a naked level 60 with 150 block value in defensive stance = ~450
Crit rate with my tanking gear and 9/11/31 build: 11%
Average shield slam damage with crit factored in: ~500
Average shield slam damage against a level 63 mob (50% damage reduction?) = 250
Threat caused by damage in defensive stance with defiance = 250 * 1.45 = 363
Innate shield slam threat = 250
Innate threat in defensive stance with defiance = 250 * 1.45 = 363
Total threat = 363 + 363 = 726
726 threat/ 20 rage = ~36 threat/rage

Again, these calculations are very rough and I would not be surprised if I made a mistake (maybe with the level 63 damage reduction?)... but assuming they are correct, does this mean that the new shield slam is now better than sunder armor in terms of threat/rage?

#9 frmorrison

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Posted 21 June 2006 - 09:25 PM

With a good amount of block, shield slam should be better threat/rage than sunder. It still has the cooldown, but it is a decent 31 point talent now.

A few other people did calculations in the "New warrior talents" thread.

#10 squiffy

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Posted 21 June 2006 - 09:30 PM

K so I don't get it. what was the point of changing shield slam if all they did was knock 10 rage off of the cost? Most main tanks aren't exactly hurting for rage :>.

Imp Bloodrage will now give you enough to open with a shield slam. That in itself was worth the change for me.

#11 Moleva

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Posted 21 June 2006 - 09:32 PM

A better estimate of damage reduction on bosses, etc. fully sundered is about 25%. Also, you forgot to factor in one hand spec (which I'm assuming you have).

I came up with about 46-47threat/rage with those things in mind.

#12 Lojze

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Posted 21 June 2006 - 09:42 PM

Sorry to duplicate something that was in another thread =(

Does 1-handed spec affect shield slam damage? Do shields count as 1-handed melee weapons?

#13 Moleva

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Posted 21 June 2006 - 09:48 PM

As far as I know, one hand spec applies an aura, whereby any melee damage you cause gets increased by 10% if you're holding a one hander.

#14 Fiola

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 04:38 AM

Interesting discovery on live - seems that SS will clear all buffs on the target when it procs.


I was dueling a prot warrior, and I had 3 magic buffs. (BoM, Vengeance, SoC). He SS'd me, and those buffs all went "Poof!"


Anyone know if this is an intended buff or a mistake? (Might make prot warriors marginally more useful in PvP. = P )

#15 Crowbite

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 12:42 PM

My understanding is that it's suppost to have a 50% chance to remove one buff. If it took away 3, I think we are dealing with a bug.

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#16 subscience

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Posted 22 June 2006 - 02:08 PM

Slightly off-topic, but does anyone have an up-to-date list of threat values generated by various Warrior skills? I know of the WoWWiki page, but I'd like a few other sources to cross-reference too.




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