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Demoralizing shout et al.


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#21 Shalas

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Posted 18 September 2006 - 02:43 PM

Is there any interaction between a mob's AGI and it's Crit rate?

I doubt it. Rather, I doubt there's anyway you can affect a mob's crit rate besides +def. Otherwise, a simple debuff would trivialize an important part of tanking.

Aren't basically all bosses immune to it, though? If Scorpid Sting did reduce crit rates by 3%, then it'd explain why they are, as it makes no sense for them to be immune due to the -str part, given that they aren't immune to other AP reducing effects.

#22 stormbreaker

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 10:03 AM

During out spiderwing clear last night i decided to get one of our hunters to check if Beast Lore works and here are the results, just thought someone might find them usefull in this topic somehow. please note: this is without improved demo shout.

Posted Image



Posted Image

#23 dojke

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 07:47 AM

That's gotta be improved, the numbers make a lot of sense if it's w/ imp demo, they don't make any sense if it's not.

Anyways I did a few tests on imp scorpid sting, and it seems sta DOES multiply like atk/str does.

Imp scorpid sting is removing exactly 1000 hp from the snakes in zg. This would make perfect sense, as they're level 60 with 15260 hp. A multiplier of 5 would indicate that a normal level 60 mob would have 3052 hp, which is about in the right ballpark for a 'caster' template.

The fish in ZG has 9156 hp normally, and imp scorpid sting is reducing it by 600. Ie, it looks like a sta mulitplier of 3. Zulian crocolisk is experiencing the same behavior.

Borelgore lost exactly 3000 hp, out of 47160.

In other words, imp scorpid sting probably reduces the hp of a level 60 mob by roughly 6.5%. This would be why every remotely important mob is immune to it.

Still trying to figure out if it's useful. I'm kinda thinking it is, especially if we're going to be grinding to 70 in instances (ie elites). If you're gonna get like -15% melee dps from scorpid, then add 400 dmg on top of that (though the damage only works if the mob is 96%+), it could be useful.

#24 Turpin

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Posted 06 October 2006 - 04:55 PM

During out spiderwing clear last night i decided to get one of our hunters to check if Beast Lore works and here are the results, just thought someone might find them usefull in this topic somehow. please note: this is without improved demo shout.

http://img150.images.../maexxnamw4.jpg



http://img154.images...aexxnassrx8.jpg

So trying to reconcile this with the OPs statement that the -atp effects are linear. The first Maexxna calc (post about mid of page) showed it was a 16.3% reduction w/o imp dem shout. Assuming a linear -atp effect then 5 points in Imp dem shout would give 16.3 * 1.4 = 22.8% decrease. But the numbers in this above picture give about a 20.2% decrease which doesnt make sense from the -linear atp effect perspective. I put them all into excel to get more significant digits and i found that instead of being a 1.4 multiplier in this above picture the decrease from regular demoshout was 1.2396 which is basically 1.24, so somewhere between normal demo shout and improved demo shout. Imp demo shout is 5 ranks, each increasing the debuff by 8%. 3 points in it would give 8*3=24% or a 1.24 decrease from regular demo shout which is exactly consistent with the data. Now i want to know if the warrior that demoshouted before this beastlore was taken has 3 points in imp dem shout. If not there is something strange going on.

Also the data does seem to imply that as the creature level increases the smaller the base reduction % of demo shout. So lvl 60s from the OP were 24% ish which Maex/Mag at level 63 were both 16%.

#25 Setro

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 06:55 AM

Sorry to reply to a long-dead thread, but I have to ask, since I havent been able to find the answer to this question anywhere.

Is hateful strike's damage reduced by demoralizing shout?

Given that it is a melee attack, and similar attacks such as unbalancing strike and mortal strike are also reduced by it, I would assume it would be. However, in reading a TON of discussion, I've never seen it brought up once. Seems like improved demo would be extremely useful for this fight if so.

Anyone know? Thanks in advance.

#26 xarg

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 06:58 AM

Sorry to reply to a long-dead thread, but I have to ask, since I havent been able to find the answer to this question anywhere.

Is hateful strike's damage reduced by demoralizing shout?

Given that it is a melee attack, and similar attacks such as unbalancing strike and mortal strike are also reduced by it, I would assume it would be. However, in reading a TON of discussion, I've never seen it brought up once. Seems like improved demo would be extremely useful for this fight if so.

Anyone know? Thanks in advance.

It's not affected, I'm sure it's been said many times in patchwerk threads on this forum already.

Regardless, you should be trying to keep it up anyway, he still does an asston of melee damage.

#27 sekdar

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 06:59 AM

http://www.thottbot.com/?sp=28308

Hateful strike does a set range of damage. It does not use Weapon Damage and therefore is not affected by PW's attack power. Demo shout only affects the damage the MT will take.

#28 Setro

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 07:01 AM

Thanks for the replies.

#29 Vetinari

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 10:17 AM

While this thread is still alive: has anyone in beta done tests against lvl 70/73 mobs to see how much effect each point of AP has at those levels?

Will be interesting to know.
Clearly intellect is not your primary stat.

#30 teedog

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 11:20 AM

I remember first being amazed when two identically geared and specced tanks tanks Twin Emps, one using Demo on Vek'nilash whenever possible, and the other not, and the latter was taking easily 25% more damage total.

Late comer to this thread, hope you'll tolerate this small derailment. Is there a trick to using Demo Shout on the Emperor without aggro'ing the neutral bugs around?

#31 sp00n

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 11:23 AM

Wait until they are far enough away.
Or aggro them on purpose and clear the area around the twin before using demo shout.

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#32 Furion

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 12:14 PM

I like tanking the Emps with my back against the wall right below the stairs where you enter the room. There is less bugs than directly under the torch. Normally I can Demoshout all fight long without worrying about bugs at all. Make sure you coordinate that with your healers before the pull.

But really maybe you should have dug up an old threat about the twins instead of asking in this one.

#33 Flavahbeast

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 01:44 PM

I remember first being amazed when two identically geared and specced tanks tanks Twin Emps, one using Demo on Vek'nilash whenever possible, and the other not, and the latter was taking easily 25% more damage total.

Late comer to this thread, hope you'll tolerate this small derailment. Is there a trick to using Demo Shout on the Emperor without aggro'ing the neutral bugs around?

I can keep it up reliably just by going where the bugs aren't - if there's one bug on one side of nilash, move to his other side and shout. just get a good feel for the range of demo shout and stand against the wall when you have to, it's not like standing on top of the tank is going hurt you and there are no bugs behind the wall

at this point, though, I don't bother and just DPS since our tanks are geared enough that the extra melee damage is a non issue




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