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Hunter Item Comparison (and damage) Spreadsheet


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#21 Lactose

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 09:33 PM

Sadly, a fully optimal cycle isn't as easy as that. For example, if Multi-Shot cools down when Auto Shot has ~0.5 seconds left, it's actually best to let Auto Shot fire, or you'd delay it. If you instead wait for Auto Shot to prime, then activate Multi-Shot, the Multi-Shot will fire ~0.5 seconds after Auto Shot (so delayed the same), however the cooldown will start when you activate it.
Just a very rough guideline to show what I mean, don't take it too literally :P
0.0 Auto Shot primed
0.1 Multi-Shot cast -- cooldown starts
0.5 Auto Shot fired
1.0 Multi-Shot fired

Since the timing for Multi-Shot in relation to Auto Shot and Aimed Shot is based on weapon speed (and quiver), it's really messed up to try and get a decent mana regen formula for it.
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#22 Kalman

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 09:36 PM

You could always do what I did when I started modeling rogue energy/CP usage and do it exhaustively! Only so many weapon speeds, after all. :p
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#23 Lactose

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 09:42 PM

Ooooor... I could say...
with consumables you're able to outlast a 7 minute fight (even as horde), I'm not planning on adding mana any time soon.

;)
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#24 Kalman

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 10:04 PM

Ooooor... I could say...
with consumables you're able to outlast a 7 minute fight (even as horde), I'm not planning on adding mana any time soon.

;)

Then, as I said, our hunters (who are alliance and complain that going optimal cycle runs them OOM too fast) are doing something wrong. What consumables do you typically use for a 7 minute fight, for point of comparison (i.e. so I can yell at them to farm)?
Melador> Incidentally, these last few pages are why people hate lawyers.
Viator> I really don't want to go all Kalman here.
Bury> Just imagine what the world would be like if you used your powers for good.

#25 Lactose

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 10:14 PM

Mageblood Potion, Nightfin Soup, Major Mana Potion, 2x Lesser Mana Oil, Demonic / Dark Runes.
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#26 balgrim

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 10:17 PM

Since we put Patch on farm status, I've moved down to Superior/Combat Mana Pots and Demonic Runes (very easily farmed)-- these, combined with BoW/JoW keep my mana bar afloat, easily.

Thanks for the Spreadsheet btw, Lactose. :)

#27 Gwaihir

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 10:22 PM

Just did patchwerk last night, 6:21 kill, as alliance with Ash. JoW was up the entire fight, and I used two runes, two mana pots. one mana oil(one chage left, and I do DW =/ ), no mageblood, no nightfin (I used squid instead). I ended the kill with mana to spare. I have about 4900 mana buffed, for what its worth.

This was with a normal cycle as well. I do have 5/5 for 10% less mana cost on shots. I guess one thing that people can forget is to pop your pot or rune as soon as it would fill you to full, to get your cooldowns going.

<Gwaihir> mage time is like booterang
<Gwaihir> AUGH BOOTERANG
<Gwaihir> AUGH MAGE TIME
<Ama> AUGH MAGE TIME
<XI|> AUGH MAGE TIME


#28 Lactose

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 10:23 PM

WTB paladins.
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#29 Gwaihir

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 10:27 PM

Ahhh, the SCT +40 mana +59 mana spam :P

<Gwaihir> mage time is like booterang
<Gwaihir> AUGH BOOTERANG
<Gwaihir> AUGH MAGE TIME
<Ama> AUGH MAGE TIME
<XI|> AUGH MAGE TIME


#30 christide

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 10:47 PM

Then, as I said, our hunters (who are alliance and complain that going optimal cycle runs them OOM too fast) are doing something wrong. What consumables do you typically use for a 7 minute fight, for point of comparison (i.e. so I can yell at them to farm)?

If JoW is up the entire time, and you aren't doing something stupid (like spamming serpent sting) you don't need anything more than major mana pots to not go OOM.

Hell, our last kill I only used 1 major mana pot, and I still didn't have any mana issues. The fight didn't even last long enough for me to get my second rapid fire off, but going to 7 minutes isn't going to drastically change anything if you're using the first pot as soon as you're short 2250 mana.

#31 balgrim

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 10:47 PM

Just did patchwerk last night, 6:21 kill, as alliance with Ash. JoW was up the entire fight, and I used two runes, two mana pots. one mana oil(one chage left, and I do DW =/ ), no mageblood, no nightfin (I used squid instead). I ended the kill with mana to spare. I have about 4900 mana buffed, for what its worth.

This was with a normal cycle as well. I do have 5/5 for 10% less mana cost on shots. I guess one thing that people can forget is to pop your pot or rune as soon as it would fill you to full, to get your cooldowns going.

10% less...

on...

Are you using Arcane Shot...?

#32 Starks

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 11:17 PM

Just did patchwerk last night, 6:21 kill, as alliance with Ash. JoW was up the entire fight, and I used two runes, two mana pots. one mana oil(one chage left, and I do DW =/ ), no mageblood, no nightfin (I used squid instead). I ended the kill with mana to spare. I have about 4900 mana buffed, for what its worth.

This was with a normal cycle as well. I do have 5/5 for 10% less mana cost on shots. I guess one thing that people can forget is to pop your pot or rune as soon as it would fill you to full, to get your cooldowns going.

10% less...

on...

Are you using Arcane Shot...?

I think he's talking about effiecency, you seem to be thinking of the 3/5 Striker's set bonus :P

Lactose, I'm glad to see this is updated, awesome work.

#33 Gwaihir

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 11:33 PM

yea, effiecency. must have had a mental blip and left out the word.

<Gwaihir> mage time is like booterang
<Gwaihir> AUGH BOOTERANG
<Gwaihir> AUGH MAGE TIME
<Ama> AUGH MAGE TIME
<XI|> AUGH MAGE TIME


#34 balgrim

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 11:52 PM

Ah, yeah for some reason 5/5 Strikers popped into my head instead of 5/5 Efficiency~ I very often take Efficiency for granted. I did some work for mana stability for Patchwerk and got called on my shot cost numbers by one of our hunters since he's PvP spec'd (5/5 Imp. Conc.). Oops~ :D

#35 Gwaihir

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Posted 15 August 2006 - 12:02 AM

I would spec a mix of effiency and conc even for pvp =/ I always run dry for mana long before getting a free refill from dying.

<Gwaihir> mage time is like booterang
<Gwaihir> AUGH BOOTERANG
<Gwaihir> AUGH MAGE TIME
<Ama> AUGH MAGE TIME
<XI|> AUGH MAGE TIME


#36 Shalas

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Posted 15 August 2006 - 12:08 AM

You could do what healers do and grab muse/old spirit vs. int and just find out how much time you spend under the 5SR empirically. Patchwerk is long enough that you should be able to get a fairly accurate number.

#37 Guest_alienangel_*

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 07:55 PM

Lovely, an update :). I've been trying variations on the old download link to check if you've been sneakily updating it for a while :)

Would it be hard for you to print out values for Buffed RAP and Buffed Crit as well? Just to satisfy my curosity whether I've got everything filled in right and the spreadsheet values agree with my screenshotted character sheet values (aside from Hunter's Mark of course)?

#38 Guest_alienangel_*

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 07:58 PM

oo one more request: would it be possible to add in an option for the +4% multishot damage from PvP gloves? Rank 12 gloves + 8/9 CS seems a sexy prospect.

#39 Lactose

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 10:39 PM

PvP gloves noted, will see when I find the time to add it.
Post buff stats: Check cells B/C 145-148
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#40 Guest_alienangel_*

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Posted 18 August 2006 - 12:47 AM

Post buff stats: Check cells B/C 145-148

hmm. either I'm misunderstanding something, or the buffed stats aren't quite right (probably Bok).

Here's a screenshot of me buffed a while back - note my melee crit rate is visible in the top centre:

Posted Image

624 agi, 1650 RAP with AotH VII and TSA, and 23.79% melee crit (28.79 ranged).

Here's a CT profile with the unbuffed stats for that particular set of gear: http://ctprofiles.net/3323732

526 agi, 1234 RAP unbuffed and 19.90% melee crit (24.9 ranged).

Here's a screenshot of the spreadsheet, with buffs enabled:

Posted Image

I'm not sure what the values in cells B145:C148 represent, but they seem similar to the AGI RAP Crit values, but slightly off:

571 agi, 1544.2 RAP 27.75 ranged crit

Note that in cell B7 I entered my unbuffed RAP + AotH, since the comment only said to leave off TSA.

Am I misunderstanding something about the values I'm supposed to fill in?

edit: I looked at the formulae you're using, I think you're not applying the BoK modifier to base agi, only to buff agi >.>. So B145 should be:
=B63*B140+B141
and C145 should be:
=C130*C140+C141
And the Buffed RAP and Crit calculations need corresponding adjustments.




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