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Moonkin TTT Article pre-publish draft


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#21 Calmwind

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 03:10 AM

Want to thank you both for posting the info about WiseEclipse. I think it helped me catch an eclipse proc more than 5 times in one 10 man Ulduar fight earlier this evening. Didn't really have a chance to really make it far but still i think its a great addition to my addon list.

#22 Hamlet

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 06:34 AM

Yep, sorry for that (*60), I was trying with MotW because It`s a bit late and my shaman was asleep, will correct it now.
I dont't know why I had written EU, will correct it now

The comments are in Spanish because I wasn't in the mood to translate all, however, if there is something you want to discuss, I'd be pleased to explain the code. (I think all the remarkable stuff is covered in the first few lines, however, I tried to follow a logical coding path so anyone who looks the code could understand it, despite speaking Spanish or not)

Link updated to 1.1.1, BL/H function corrected, thank you for you advice, as it is, in 1.1.0, the BL/H funtion doesn't work.


Mil gracias.

Have you tested the 4T8 proc functionality much? I want to make sure
1) It's even necessary--typically a proc (especially during Lunar) results in two simultaneous Starfires, so they'd both be covered just fine anyway.
2) It doesn't prevent valid cancellations--when you cast an instant Starfire, is Elune's Wrath always gone by the time UNIT_SPELLCAST_SUCCEEDED fires?

#23 Latas

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 12:17 PM

I've found myself wondering lately as I think I am seeing this in my raids properly, even though its very infrequent given the circumstances. There are times that I've had both eclipses available and I will throw up my dots and 4t8 will proc and I will use the starfire while the current wrath is in flight and I know the wrath is a crit and even though the starfire hits first and crits, when the wrath lands I end up getting a lunar proc. Now this string of events makes me wonder if the chance for spells to proc eclipse is not determined at spell hit but at the same time it is determined if the spell crit like natures grace is. Now given this it would seem that latency would play much less of a part in the macro's success than the slight flight time that starfire actually has.

Not sure if this would spur you on to modify the way the macro is presented in the guide or not, but I thought I would share these findings with you.

#24 copialinex

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 03:40 PM

Have you tested the 4T8 proc functionality much? I want to make sure
1) It's even necessary--typically a proc (especially during Lunar) results in two simultaneous Starfires, so they'd both be covered just fine anyway.
2) It doesn't prevent valid cancellations--when you cast an instant Starfire, is Elune's Wrath always gone by the time UNIT_SPELLCAST_SUCCEEDED fires?


I don't have the 4pT8 bonus yet, so I haven't tested.
1) I haven't thought that... You must be right. I'll try to be sure, but it'll require a little time.
2) I don't have the bonus yet, but with a DK's Rime and Howling Blast, if you have the Rime buff and you cast a HB, when UNIT_SPELLCAST_SUCCEEDED of Howling Blast is fired, UnitBuff("player","Rime") returns valid information (time ~= nil).

edit: 1) You were right, both are covered by the Eclipse buff, it doesn't matter which one cancels the Eclipse. I will remove the 4pT8 function soon.
edit2: WiseEclipse updated and uploaded (the link remains the same). I think the addon is now complete, I won't update it so often if no problems or new mechanics are found. I hope it proves useful.

#25 Droo.

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Posted 02 September 2009 - 06:24 AM

A great article, but I agree with erdluf. It needs an introduction saying it's for moonkin raiding.

Sorry to ask, but I've been searching for ages now and still can't find anything on Moonkin PVP anywhere. Can anyone link me to a good thread? Help is greatly appreciated.

#26 Erdluf

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Posted 02 September 2009 - 01:01 PM

A great article, but I agree with erdluf. It needs an introduction saying it's for moonkin raiding.

Sorry to ask, but I've been searching for ages now and still can't find anything on Moonkin PVP anywhere. Can anyone link me to a good thread? Help is greatly appreciated.


There doesn't seem to be a lot of discussion by hi-ranked Moonkin.

Best recent discussion I've seen was on US Blizz forum.

EJ has a PvP forum, but you won't see much Balance talk there.

Themoonkinrepository.com has a PvP Forum with some signs of life. It has been a while since I've looked there.

#27 smygelfh

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 02:07 PM

45.9 crit rating gives 1% to crit. With Vengeance and a Chaotic Skyflare Diamond, crits with our main nukes do 2.09 times the damage of non crits.


Can you elaborate a bit on how this formula looks? For it to fit the measured 1.545 damage multiplier without vengeance and 2.09 with vengeance, I seem to end up with a formula that looks way too complex to make sense.

#28 Boevis

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 05:28 PM

Crits usually do 50% Bonus Damage, or 1.5 increases this by 3% so you do 1.5 * 1.03 = 1.545
Vengeance doubles the Bonus Damage (.545) so 2 * .545 = 1.09 additional, or 2.09 total.

The Logic is a bit off, one would expect the meta to apply after vengeance (thus 2 * 1.03 = 2.06), but with testing we can see that it's prior.

#29 Teleria

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Posted 07 September 2009 - 01:47 PM

Excelent post, have not read it all yet but definitly will finish reading through it after work !

Would like to ad one thing I saw so far,

you wrote:

can save a tiny bit of mana if you ever have to rebuff people during a fight.


This glyph is extremly usefull in mana intensive fights with aoe, when you cast gift of the wild on your raid it has 25 chances to proc clearcasting of omen of clarity, which is pretty much a 100% chance to proc clearcasting

This means that instead of spending 81% of your base mana on a hurricane you only spend 32% of your base mana on Gift of the wild to proc clearcast and cast a free hurricane

Hope this was usefull, will see if I can ad anything else after I have read the post through :)

#30 Knofle

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 12:07 AM

Very good post, very good for refreshing up on numbers one should know, but can't remember. :)

Anyways, I thought I'd just come with a small suggestion, and that is to add a small note about stacking trinkets and hurricane.
Back some time before Ulduar, Hurricane stacked up my Illustration of the Dragon Soul, but it doesn't do that anymore. What I find useful is to use a GCD on insect swarm or equivalent to keep that stack up in for the added spell power during AoE. The same issue is found with Eye of the Broodmother, and I'm using both of those, making it even a bigger issue for me to not let them drop.

Just a tip, I don't know if it is worth adding something this item specific.

#31 Hamlet

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 06:34 AM

Very good post, very good for refreshing up on numbers one should know, but can't remember. :)

Anyways, I thought I'd just come with a small suggestion, and that is to add a small note about stacking trinkets and hurricane.
Back some time before Ulduar, Hurricane stacked up my Illustration of the Dragon Soul, but it doesn't do that anymore. What I find useful is to use a GCD on insect swarm or equivalent to keep that stack up in for the added spell power during AoE. The same issue is found with Eye of the Broodmother, and I'm using both of those, making it even a bigger issue for me to not let them drop.

Just a tip, I don't know if it is worth adding something this item specific.


Hurricane was fixed in 3.2 to refresh/add a single stack of these trinkets when you cast it.

#32 klüger

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 06:36 AM

This glyph is extremly usefull in mana intensive fights with aoe, when you cast gift of the wild on your raid it has 25 chances to proc clearcasting of omen of clarity, which is pretty much a 100% chance to proc clearcasting

This means that instead of spending 81% of your base mana on a hurricane you only spend 32% of your base mana on Gift of the wild to proc clearcast and cast a free hurricane

Hope this was usefull, will see if I can ad anything else after I have read the post through :)


Very nice, thanks a lot :)

#33 Knofle

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 12:26 PM

Hurricane was fixed in 3.2 to refresh/add a single stack of these trinkets when you cast it.


Woops, wasn't aware of that. Can't say there are many AoE fights in ToC, so I guess I've just not found out yet.
I just remember it stacked on hurricane, and that was awesome.

#34 Galvatr0n

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 11:48 PM

In your description of haste, you say that we should aim for 401 haste rating to be at soft cap. Are you taking into consideration the 3% haste from Imp Moonkin Form? Just wondering.
Thanks!

#35 Belaya

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Posted 09 September 2009 - 10:27 PM

The link to the core-specc doesn't work any longer since mmo-champion changed their talent-calculator to shorten the URLs.

#36 Hamlet

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 10:44 PM

Fixed a few minor things. This will probably be on the TTT forum soon.

I might not be doing too much more with this for a little while--I just joined a new guild and am playing mostly Resto. I'll probably try to keep it up to date, which shouldn't be too much work since I don't foresee anything game-changing between now and Cataclysm.

#37 Hamlet

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 11:57 PM

Of course, as soon I post that I think of something kind of interesting. I'm pretty sure Glyph of Starfall isn't worth it even in an AoE-heavy situation.

A Starfall with one target in range drops 10 stars in 10 seconds; a Starfall with more than one target in range drops 20 stars in 10 seconds. As a brief test, I tried doubling the damage output of Starfall in the spreadsheet and it still came out below Glyph of Insect Swarm. So it seems that even in an ideal situation where there are multiple targets available every time Starfall comes off cooldown, the Glyph isn't worthwhile.

This is a slight underestimate since you might gain some splash damage against many targets. But on the other hand, most multi-target situations allow for multi-dotting, which increases the value of Glyph of IS far more anyway.

In short, those of you who had been using Glyph of Starfall in the first place (though I hadn't recommended it for a while) probably shouldn't bother.

#38 Royalite

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 07:52 PM

Interesting point Arawethion. I had watch the Paragon video of the Anub kill. I don't know if you watched the fight but they tanked the four adds and the boss next to each other (essentially 5 targets) and aoe-ed them down.

I was just thinking about how in such an encounter if using the two gylphs on starfall, gale winds and hurricane would be benefical. But as I understand it when my guild reaches that encounter, I should try to IS the five targets and then use hurricane w/ gale winds?

You mentioned two targets but I wondered if your analysis considered 5 or if the point was irrelevent b/c the damage just doesn't scale well with starfall w/ glyphs.

#39 Hamlet

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 09:06 PM

I was purely comparing Glyphs there, not commenting on ideal AoE rotations.

AoE situations are all slightly different--if you're trying to completely optimize DPS at a progression encounter, I'd check the damage done by each of your spells in the spreadsheet and use that to plan out an ideal sequence (remember assumption made about debuffs).

We're not supposed to talk about Heroic Anub yet so I'll only speak generally--5 mobs lasting more than a few seconds each. If had to guess at the right rotation, it would be pure Hurricane spam, not tab-IS. Maybe with a Moonfire cast periodically to proc the Idol and hope for a NG for your Hurricane, that's an interesting option.

If it turns out that you're using IS very little during the DPS-senstive part of the fight, you might use Glyph of Starfall. The big benefit is two NG'd Hurricanes from each Starfall. But again, use what you know about the fight to plan it out exactly--how long is the phase and how many Starfalls will you get, how often are you dotting the boss between add spawns, etc.--and compute what's better.

#40 Moome

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 05:11 AM

so i was wondering if you have t8 4 piece or t9 2 piece would consistantly keeping up the dots all the time be benificial and tip the scale in the favor of throwing them in before they drop in a eclipse cycle?




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