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Unholy Dps | 3.3.5, King of Anything


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#3481 Guest_Aliocha_*

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 08:17 PM

It's a priority system, not a cycle.

So you put diseases on all the mobs, then when this is done, you use DnD, and when you did those two things, or when DnD is on cooldown, you use BB, and when none of the above are possible, SS or runic dumps.

#3482 Hodiste

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 04:53 PM

*Actual BiS has an incredibly minor amount of expertise; this is intentional. It is not worth capping exp. It just isn't - one quick glimpse at the stat weights will tell you as much. That said, if you run with high latency or multiple resto druids (or just have OCD and insist on having it capped), variations which force it are available. Just remember; those variations aren't actually BiS, technically.


I was curious. Why would High Latency or multiple resto druids make Expertise being worth capped?

#3483 Khaosknight

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 05:07 PM

I was curious. Why would High Latency or multiple resto druids make Expertise being worth capped?


High latency effects it because each attack that you cast that misses with high latency takes more away from your overall DPS then missing an attack does with low latency. As for Resto druids, I'm 99% sure its because of that talent of theirs that lets rejuv and wild growth ticks have a chance to restore/grant us 16 RP.

#3484 Hodiste

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 05:59 PM

Ahh ok, I figured as much for both. But I kinda still don't understand the logic behind the more RP from resto druids and that means we should be exp capped. I would think it should be the opposite.

#3485 ChaosReturner

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 06:42 PM

More RP from resto druids means that you will have less free GCDs, therefore misses and dodges are more costly. If your BS or SS gets dodged, you are losing an opportunity to cast DC instead of just an empty GCD.

#3486 Yubble

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 07:29 PM

I'm getting interesting results with my latest unholy sims - just wondering if anybody else sees the same...

kahorie's version 1.2.1.6

My standard 0-17-54 2h unholy build is doing less simmed dps than DW using the same build with 2/5 BI and 3/3 Nerves of Cold Steel - a DW derivative.

My 2h spec uses shadow's edge, my DW spec uses Bloodvenom Blade and Heroic frost giant's cleaver
Both specs are hit capped and exp capped

Priorty is: Diseases > BS > DC(max rp) > SS > DC > HoW

Blood pres, Sigil of Hanged Man, Dark Death - Icy Touch - Ghoul for glyphs

Make sure to test with similar gear lvl (i.e. no shadowmourne)

#3487 Krayken

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 11:24 PM

I'm getting interesting results with my latest unholy sims - just wondering if anybody else sees the same...

kahorie's version 1.2.1.6

My standard 0-17-54 2h unholy build is doing less simmed dps than DW using the same build with 2/5 BI and 3/3 Nerves of Cold Steel - a DW derivative.

My 2h spec uses shadow's edge, my DW spec uses Bloodvenom Blade and Heroic frost giant's cleaver
Both specs are hit capped and exp capped

Priorty is: Diseases > BS > DC(max rp) > SS > DC > HoW

Blood pres, Sigil of Hanged Man, Dark Death - Icy Touch - Ghoul for glyphs

Make sure to test with similar gear lvl (i.e. no shadowmourne)



I posted about this a couple of months ago, messing around with Kahorie's I noticed my Unholy DW spec did more damage than using SE or regular Bryntroll. As I have picked up better gear & 1H weapons the difference has become more pronounced. Since I'll never get Shadowmourne and most likely not get Heroic Brytroll short of getting Warmace of Menethil I suspect that DW will be the best Unholy DPS for me until the expansion (DW Frost is ~400DPS better with this gear but I stay Unholy for EPB since I am the only Unholy DK in the guild who raids regularly.)

Here are the reports from Kahorie's v1.2.1.7 using the standard 2H Frost sub-spec with SE and the same DW spec you mention (you can see my spec and gear on my character link):


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[TABLE]Ability| Damage done|||| hits||| Crits||| Misses|| Glances||| Uptime|
|Total| %| #| Avg| #| %| Avg| #| %| Avg| #| Avg| #| %| Avg| %|
MainHand| 937484978| 22.3| 158597| 7962.2| 57584| 35| 4465.7| 60158| 36.6| 9187.6| 5836| 3.5| 40855| 24.8| 3123.8| |
ScourgeStrike| 435769937| 10.3| 53979| 8073| 31145| 55.7| 5102.9| 22834| 40.8| 12124| 1974| 3.5| | | | |
Ghoul| 390830226| 9.3| 394894| 1318.6| 244936| 62| 937.4| 51472| 13| 1876.1| | | 98486| 24.9| 656.5| |
DeathCoil| 337070142| 8| 51677| 6522.6| 32741| 63.2| 4703| 18936| 36.5| 9668.8| 142| .3| | | | |
BloodStrike| 300135878| 7.1| 71811| 4179.5| 45736| 61.5| 3019.5| 26075| 35| 6214.2| 2615| 3.5| | | | |
Gargoyle| 256341094| 6.1| 49385| 5190.7| 42985| 86.8| 4596.9| 6400| 12.9| 9178.6| 144| .3| | | | |
Diseases.FrostFever| 243363682| 5.8| 108922| 2234.3| 108922| 100| 2234.3| | | | | | | | | 98.9|
ScourgeStrikeMagical| 240815052| 5.7| 53979| 4461.3| 31145| 57.7| 2820| 22834| 42.3| 6699.9| | | | | | |
Diseases.BloodPlague| 205360725| 4.9| 109737| 1871.4| 109737| 100| 1871.4| | | | | | | | | 99.5|
Necrosis| 182144642| 4.3| 158597| 1148.5| 158597| 100| | | | | | | | | | |
WanderingPlague| 161801102| 3.8| 78982| 2048.6| 78982| 99.7| | | | | 230| .3| | | | |
BloodCakedBlade| 140859452| 3.3| 46075| 3057.2| 46075| 96.3| 3057.2| | | | 1759| 3.7| | | | |
Ghoul: Claw| 131924695| 3.1| 90000| 1465.8| 78188| 86.9| 1404.5| 11812| 13.1| 1871.6| | | | | | |
PlagueStrike| 91381824| 2.2| 18000| 5076.8| 10407| 55.9| 3212.5| 7593| 40.8| 7631.9| 608| 3.3| | | | |
IcyTouch| 74794206| 1.8| 18000| 4155.2| 11312| 62.7| 2984.1| 6688| 37.1| 6136.1| 46| .3| | | | |
Army of the Dead| 48237548| 1.1| 334992| 144| 291056| 86.9| 141.7| 43936| 13.1| 159.3| | | | | | |
UnholyBlight| 33706148| .8| 51677| 652.2| 51677| 100| | | | | | | | | | |
DPS| 11700(+/- 758)
Total Damage| 4212.02m | in 100h
Total runic power used: 2216760 (0 wasted)
Threat Per Second| 7871
Generated in |29s
Template:| Kray-2H
Rotation: |Unholy-ReapingLess
Presence: |Blood
Sigil: |HangedMan
RuneEnchant: |FallenCrusader
Pet Calculation: |True
[/TABLE]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[TABLE]Ability| Damage done|||| hits||| Crits||| Misses|| Glances||| Uptime|
|Total| %| #| Avg| #| %| Avg| #| %| Avg| #| Avg| #| %| Avg| %|
MainHand| 777082532| 18.3| 199290| 5588| 46236| 19.2| 2784.7| 92827| 38.5| 5722.2| 41938| 17.4| 60227| 25| 1945.3| |
OffHand| 482683208| 11.4| 197423| 3519.6| 44489| 18.4| 1742.3| 92653| 38.4| 3580.9| 43894| 18.2| 60281| 25| 1217.4| |
Ghoul| 388048500| 9.1| 406860| 1270.8| 252363| 62| 903.8| 52988| 13| 1806.9| | | 101509| 24.9| 632.5| |
DeathCoil| 317866233| 7.5| 52160| 6094.1| 32889| 63.1| 4382| 19271| 36.9| 9016| | | | | | |
ScourgeStrike| 308204561| 7.3| 54000| 5707.5| 30104| 54.2| 3548.9| 23896| 43| 8426.8| 1539| 2.8| | | | |
Gargoyle| 265771594| 6.3| 52007| 5110.3| 45287| 87.1| 4524.4| 6720| 12.9| 9058.9| | | | | | |
Diseases.FrostFever| 225551732| 5.3| 108578| 2077.3| 108578| 100| 2077.3| | | | | | | | | 99.1|
BloodStrike| 211416562| 5| 71959| 2938| 44415| 60| 2091.2| 27544| 37.2| 4303.5| 2070| 2.8| | | | |
Diseases.BloodPlague| 189872430| 4.5| 109373| 1736| 109373| 100| 1736| | | | | | | | | 99.6|
ScourgeStrikeMagical| 162573628| 3.8| 54000| 3010.6| 30104| 55.7| 1872.2| 23896| 44.3| 4444.7| | | | | | |
WanderingPlague| 158346225| 3.7| 83174| 1903.8| 83174| 100| | | | | | | | | | |
Necrosis| 150976687| 3.6| 199290| 757.6| 199290| 100| | | | | | | | | | |
Ghoul: Claw| 127185345| 3| 90000| 1413.2| 78188| 86.9| 1354| 11812| 13.1| 1804.9| | | | | | |
BloodCakedBlade| 110803013| 2.6| 58145| 1905.6| 58145| 97.1| 1905.6| | | | 1715| 2.9| | | | |
Necrosis(OH)| 93765067| 2.2| 197423| 474.9| 197423| 100| | | | | | | | | | |
IcyTouch| 69816481| 1.6| 18000| 3878.7| 11271| 62.6| 2778.4| 6729| 37.4| 5721.6| | | | | | |
BloodCakedBlade(OH)| 68208302| 1.6| 57181| 1192.8| 57181| 96.5| 1192.8| | | | 2052| 3.5| | | | |
PlagueStrike| 62122096| 1.5| 18000| 3451.2| 10006| 54.2| 2139.5| 7994| 43.3| 5093.1| 463| 2.5| | | | |
Army of the Dead| 46914142| 1.1| 344912| 136| 300079| 87| 133.6| 44833| 13| 152| | | | | | |
UnholyBlight| 31790865| .7| 52160| 609.5| 52160| 100| | | | | | | | | | |
DPS| 11803(+/- 712)
Total Damage| 4249m | in 100h
Total runic power used: 2230400 (0 wasted)
Threat Per Second| 7941
Generated in |36s
Template:| Kray-DW
Rotation: |Unholy-ReapingLess
Presence: |Blood
Sigil: |HangedMan
RuneEnchant: | FallenCrusader / |FallenCrusader
Pet Calculation: |True
[/TABLE]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#3488 rh8452

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 09:41 AM

Dual-wield builds taking points out of black ice will do better on paper on a tank and spank patchwerk style boss such as saurfang or festergut. However on any fight with multiple targets you need to DPS (lich king, putricide, heroic 25-man halion) or the boss being out of melee range for any significant length of time (sindragosa, blood prince council), they should fall behind a bit due to diseases / death coil / DnD / blood boil not hitting as hard, and pets inheriting less AP due to the 1H weapons not having strength on them to scale with FC and raid buffs.

That isn't to say "don't ever DW", as the DPS loss isn't huge and some people find it more fun, but it won't give you more DPS on most of the heroic mode fights.

#3489 Knaledge

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Posted 04 September 2010 - 06:40 AM

One thing I guess maybe I am just... not getting... is the way the following is worded:

Although these specs do not have any specific free floating points to spend on whatever you choose, one can take points from Dark Conviction, the weakest single target dps talent, or from Necrosis, the weakest multi-target dps talent, at a relatively minor dps loss in favor of the utility provided by other talents:


I think what I'm getting hung up on (and hey... this could be the sleepiness talking) - if I'm in 2pT10 + 2pT9.5 and looking to talent a strictly AoE DPS spec... which talent is it that I'm supposed to be taking away from in order to pick up Morbidity?

I'm running 0/17/54 (for AoE) and 14/0/57 (for single target). This isn't so much a simulator question as it is a request for clarification.

SO - if I want to run 0/17/54 (for AoE)... I should... take points out of Necrosis? Because the above quote says it's the weakest multi-target DPS talent? Or does it mean that it IS a multi-target DPS talent and, therefore, I shouldn't take points from it?

As in - 0/17/54 is thereby not necessarily "the" AoE DPS spec since you don't have "the weakest single target talent" (Dark Conviction) to drop points from?? Which leads me to...

This is especially curious to me when I consider trying to go for a 14/0/57 spec for AoE. So now what? Now, in this case, I DO have points in both Necrosis and Dark Conviction and it seems like (at least to me and based on the quoted item above)... Dark Conviction is the "weakest single target DPS talent" so - does that mean it is a strong/strongest multi-target DPS talent? And I should STILL take points out of Necrosis?

Sorry if this seems a bit redundant - I just am somehow having a hard time wrapping my head around the train of thought presented in the quoted item. It's as if it almost assumes that, regardless of AoE or single-target nature of your spec, "everyone" reading is 14/0/57 and the quote is tailored to that - seemingly ignoring/abandoning the 0/17/54 spec just above it. As if everyone is running a 14/0/57 spec with Morbidity and another 14/0/57 without Morbidity.

Thanks for the help!

#3490 Trath

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Posted 04 September 2010 - 08:47 PM

To play a bit of devil's advocate and answer your question at the same time, let me present you with this:

As far as Blood Boil, DnD, and your diseases (i.e., all of your AoE capabilities) are concerned:

1. Necrosis affects 0/3, as it only adds to your melée auto-attacks.
2. Dark Conviction affects 2/3, as both Blood Boil and DnD may crit.

Which do you think you should take for an AoE spec?

#3491 Guest_Aarpia_*

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 04:16 PM

Am I right in thinking that while the AP your diseases inherit from you is refreshed when you hit pestilence (assuming you have glyph of disease here), any percentage modifiers to them are still rolled? I.e., reapplying diseases manually after your initial application will cause them to benefit from Rage Of Rivendendare (if you applied FF first).
If this is the case, would it not be prudent to start the fight dual-wielding with Cinderglacier on one hand and Razorice on the other, reapply diseases when Frost Vulnerability is at 5 stacks and cinderglacier has procced, then switch back to Fallen Crusader?

#3492 PristineChaos

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 07:43 PM

start the fight dual-wielding with Cinderglacier on one hand and Razorice on the other, reapply diseases when Frost Vulnerability is at 5 stacks and cinderglacier has procced, then switch back to Fallen Crusader?


This has been brought up before and the general consensus was that the proc-rate on Cinderglacier is not reliable enough to make this viable.

#3493 Spuddelkopf

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 03:07 PM

This has been brought up before and the general consensus was that the proc-rate on Cinderglacier is not reliable enough to make this viable.


In addition to that, this behaviour does not help damage regarding razorice because the diseases roll percentage damage buffs on you (like cinderglacier) but for percentage debuffs on the enemy, the damage is adjusted on every tick as far as I know.

#3494 Breuger

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 10:02 PM

@Knaledge

You're going to want the 0/17/54 spec vs. 14/0/57 because of Black Ice and Endless Winter. 2% Str vs AP from armor, and 10% frost and shadow dmg vs 4% crit.

I think the description is more for "If you like the Blood Subspec, DC is the weakest ST talent, so if you wanna buff your ST then move things around, but if you like the Frost Subspec, Necrosis is your worst AoE talent, move from there it if you wanna buff your AoE."

#3495 Carebare

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Posted 27 September 2010 - 11:06 AM

I just shit-heaped around 10 posts and passed out one week-long ban. I would like to remind everyone that you need actual support for your position. Some of you also need to remember that we have forum moderators for a reason. The next time I see a bunch of back and forth horseshit, I'll infract everyone whose post I remove. Consider this fair warning.

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#3496 Malsarys

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Posted 27 September 2010 - 05:30 PM

I'm curious what everyone is currently doing on the PTR with Ebon Plaguebringer. I went on to the PTR last night for the first time to get a feel for things, and I noticed that Festering Strike would only reset Ebon Plague to 12 sec after a certain point. Sometimes it would fall off and I would have to re-apply with Icy Touch/Plague Strike. Are people living with this 12 sec Ebon Plague and simply making sure they Festering Strike once over 10-12 sec? Or, am I missing something? Granted, this was my first time so I know I don't have the priority rotation down yet, so it could all be me. Thanks for any responses.

#3497 Azatiwatas

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Posted 27 September 2010 - 06:59 PM

Consider,

Which presence do you use in Cata Unholy Spec? I was able to do a little bit more with Unholy Presence in compare to Frost Presence, but I'm not sure if after all raid buffs, this would remain same.

What about presence's affect on single target and multi target dps? In my opinion, Unholy Presence is good for single target dps and frost presence is my favorite on multiple targets due to increased disease damage.

#3498 Velliuss

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 04:59 AM

I believe that the Unholy presence's haste affects the diseases, also. If thats the case, it might not favor Frost presence as much as you'd think. I'm also kind of curious if haste affects DND ticks. I would get no, though.

#3499 Guest_Afabar_*

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 08:01 AM

I believe that the Unholy presence's haste affects the diseases, also. If thats the case, it might not favor Frost presence as much as you'd think. I'm also kind of curious if haste affects DND ticks. I would get no, though.

Unless it changed recently no, haste do not affects disease length nether D&D. And in the state of the PTR you are in Unholy Presence. 1 second GCD is too good for this spec.




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