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Details on 1.12 PvP Content


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#1 frmorrison

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 03:57 AM

http://pc.ign.com/ar...8/718310p1.html

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the new world PvP content will take place in Silithus and Eastern Plaguelands, although it may eventually branch out to other areas. Silithus and EPL are the highest-level zones in the game right now anyway (Deadwind Pass is too small to count, really), so it will generally be level 55-60 players bashing away at each other.

In Silithus, the objective revolves around collecting dust, called "silithyst," and players will activate the geysers to collect the silithysts. You get a nice "buff" (stat boost) when you turn in the resources, but you'll be flagged as a PvP player as soon as you pick the stuff up, making you attackable by anyone in the opposing faction while you attempt to make your way back the Field Duty camps associated with the Cenarion Hold faction quests. If you manage to turn in enough of the dust, all of your fellow faction members in the zone will gain a buff as well, including those in the "AQ20" Ahn'Qiraj dungeon. Also, Blizzard tells us that no new PvP rewards are on the horizon, although faction and PvP honor points will be involved.

In the Eastern Plaguelands, we'll have a PvP mode that's similar to the Arathi Basin play style, rather than the resource collection in Silithus. There are several towers in this zone, already standing, that will be converted to captureable bases. You'll need to control and defend each tower, and the faction who possesses all four will gain zone-wide benefits like in Silithus. In addition to increased damage against the many undead creatures there (and in Stratholme), there will also be PvP-specific flight paths connecting the towers to each other. Although this game type has been prone in the past to tactical exploitation by rogues and other stealthy classes, Blizzard plans to implement a feature where the time it takes to capture a tower is reduced according to how many friendly players are nearby. If you are a stun-kill-disappear commando, you may find your usual tactics less useful here. Also, unlike Silithus, there is no automatic PvP flagging.

#2 joki

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 04:06 AM

Awesome incentive, lets get buffs for the farmers in the zone.

#3 Maledict

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 12:28 PM

I hate to sound whiney, but I read this as effectively saying, for the majority of servers :

All alliance players are permanently buffed in Silithus, Eastern Plaguelands and the Ruins of Ahn'Qhiraj. ]

I know it doesn't seem like much, and yes it's no detriment to the horde - but the population balance is *already* so massive on many, many servers, that adding just another little thing to it just makes me think more and more about re-rolling.

And yes, it's whiney and moany. I don't get why people who have 3* the numbers of one side get to be permanently boosted in a PvE instance...

#4 Mem

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 12:32 PM

Its almost impossible to rebalance existing faction balances. I don't think that these buffs will be outrageously powerful. However I doubt that the minority faction will really put up an effort to fight for these buffs. On our realm horde queues are instant, faction imbalance is pretty awful. I guess, no horde player will go to the open pvp areas if he can have a "fair" 10 on 10 in WSG instead of being zerged down by the masses.

#5 DiscW

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 12:35 PM

I'm alliance and agree with you Maledict. It will probably just end up that the underpopulated side just never bothers with this.

#6 Falcon24

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 12:35 PM

Forgive me for saying, but this seems pretty bland.

#7 TheRealJon

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 12:47 PM

I was really hoping for something like contested zones having checkpoint towers that can be captured by either horde or alliance, if one faction eventually gains control of all the towers the zone becomes that faction's territory for however long the towers are held.

How great would it be to get control of a place like Stranglethorn and let all the low level guys grind in peace for a bit until a tower is taken again. I'd enjoy it. Or start making use of the arena's and have a BG type 1v1, 2v2, etc tournaments set up through there for big cp or gear prizes.

This just sounds really boring, but I guess it can be a way to kill time between BG waits, which will probably not be bad at all with the cross server ones being implemented at the same time.

#8 Praetorian

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 12:47 PM

I see it as proof of concept, basically, for ideas that will be expanded upon in TBC. Because of population imbalance issues, I imagine they're hesitant to add anything with truly significant effects on the game world (e.g., if certain points of interest are controlled one faction pays higher merchant prices across the board and the other pays lower prices). People fought over a damn tower in Hillsbrad for a month just because it was there, and other players were there. I think they're curious to see if giving a little nudge in that direction will encourage more world PvP -- even if you don't go there for the rewards themselves, but simply because you know other players looking for PvP will also be found there.

#9 Thrillho

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 12:48 PM

Yeah, if this is their awesome solution to bring back world pvp, it's pretty weak. Hopefully it's just one aspect of a bigger system, but I dunno.

#10 Greybone

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 12:53 PM

I want to kill jaina, or go pvp'ing outside ironforge, or even kill the archbishop again, that's the sort of thing that really needs fixing.
But yeah, lets wait for the full patch notes.

#11 Krill

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 12:56 PM

I'm suprised they are not trying to use experience gained from AQ opening event and AV... making said EPL towers real NPC hubs, with quests, special events (3rd party attacks - Scourge anyone) and so on would make it less AB like. In general, giving players something that make them feel like part of the army, not part of the zerg.

And it's actually even worse, because in AB you rarely can have full time zerg controlling all the nodes, while in outdoor PvP it is quite possible.

Silithus Dune-like spice harvesting is not even worth a comment.

#12 Stalkman

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 01:10 PM

I like the concept, but if I'm already in a mood to pvp I'll be in org queueing up. Sithilus and EPL are both pretty far to get to from org, involving at least 10 minutes travel time. The way the queues have been on MG lately I'll probably be in a BG before I get there. For servers with much more of a pop imbalance (practically all of them) the pop heavy side will just be in the zones turning in the dust and controling the towers and just griefing people trying to do quests while the other faction people that want to PvP are probably just going to be in a BG. This would be a lot more appealing to me if they changed one of two things.

1. Be able to queue for a battleground from more places around the world (gaget, all major factions cities).

2. Have battlegrounds dump you more or less right where you were when you entered them. I have no idea how feasable this is design wise.
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#13 aquacadet

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 01:10 PM

Forgive me for saying, but this seems pretty bland.

This is what I figured it would be, if there is no bonus honor for doing either look for this to only be used to get buffs, and generally ignored by most PvP oriented people on balanced population servers.

I do hope that what gurg said is true and this is a test for the expansion. Hopefully in the expansion with PvP oriented zones they will be exciting.

#14 Flubber

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 01:11 PM

Ya...I can imagine that one "World Pvp, raiding is for carebears" guild just camping on the towers casting shadowbolts and aimed shot at people questing or farming scourgestones and pallys bubble-consecrating the capturable points. Only with no queues and no ability to /afk out.

Best case, 2 guilds duking it out for control in laggy world pvp with random server crashes. (Eranikus event anyone?). Worst case, a guild of 15 people in Ubrs-blues making EPL even more miserable. Itll be like CH tower camping all over again.

You want to make world PvP fun again? Make a couple goblin caravans from a horde town to an alliance town one hour, and from an alliance town to a horde town the next hour. Have the goblin sell goodie bags containing potions, trash, and recipes used by raiding guilds for the first 5 minutes after he arrives safely in the city. If he dies. He resets in the other factions town. People have to defend their potions so they can raid at a cheaper cost, while simultaneously nerfing the other factions ability to raid on the cheap.

Give the goblin 400,000 hit points and the ability to be healed. Put em between Duskwood and Stonard. Tarren mill and Southshore. Kargath and Thorium Point. Cenarion Hold and Marshall's Refuge. Basically within one hop flightpoint from any of the major raiding zones.

It prolly wouldnt work and would be ignored after the first month or so (Arena Events anyone?), but it would be an entertaining way to bring back the sea-saw from the pre-BG days.

#15 Tuco

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 01:17 PM

It needs to be more rewarding than BGs for people that want 'honor'. If it isn't, it will be less populated.

#16 Malan

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 01:22 PM

Good luck to anyone trying to grind CC rep in Silithus after this goes into place - can't really say there will be a lot of "PvP" going on in the sense of what they're implementing, but its sure as hell going to increase the random gank squads roaming around.

Honestly though, am I the only one who sees World PvP and Cross Server BGs as imcompatible? Near instant queue times 24/7 with new teams from other servers? Who the hell would ever leave Org/UC to go to EPL or Silithus?

#17 frmorrison

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 01:25 PM

Certainly the devs need to provide some amount of Honor for holding the objectives, possibly some quest rewards as well. The harvesting, similar to Arakkiss spice farming, is an interesting idea. Druids/Shaman will be good spice runners ;).

I have no idea how they will balance factions, but on a PvE server you choose to flag (if you feel it is safe enough to do).

Also, this preview isn't everything, another thing I know they are going to do is allow more people to get rank 10 and below (maybe by lowering honor decay at those ranks).

#18 Mem

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 01:26 PM

Honestly though, am I the only one who sees World PvP and Cross Server BGs as imcompatible? Near instant queue times 24/7 with new teams from other servers? Who the hell would ever leave Org/UC to go to EPL or Silithus?

Or at least instant BGs for the minor faction. But I think, don't speculate too much about it, wait, how people react to this. Sometimes the momentum of the masses can produce truly unpredictables results.

#19 Praetorian

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 01:30 PM

The problem is largely what was hit on in the first replies to this thread: Population imbalance across factions is the elephant in the room when it comes to designing world PvP objectives.

Would it be cool to be able to attack Kargath, kill the tower guards and an elite named inside, and defend it for 15-20 minutes while Horde rushed to defend it after hearing the call on WorldDefense, and shift the outpost to Alliance control? Hell yes. Would it suck to be a level 40 Orc trying to level in Badlands on an Alliance-dominated server if that were possible? Hell yes.

On a 50/50 server, you could have all sorts of cool back-and-forth, with territories and outposts shifting from one faction to another on a regular basis. But on an imbalanced server (almost all of them), all that means is further inconvenience to the already-ganked minority who have no power to stop it.

Blizzard doesn't want to force world PvP on anyone, particularly on PvE servers. Their attitude in that regard is clear. That's why they limit it to high-level areas, and that's why they've structured the rewards the way they have. I think that philosophically, if Horde A kills Alliance B, they don't want that to have an indirect negative effect on Alliance C who hasn't participated at all. At least not in the old world.

I know for a fact that world PvP is far more integrated into the Outlands, which are being designed with it in mind, so I wouldn't give up hope just yet. Playing at E3, if I brought up the map of the Hellfire Peninsula, I could see the Horde and Alliance outposts marked as red-flagged points of interest on the map, and I'm fairly sure I recall quests available at the Horde outpost that sent me to the Alliance outpost to do stuff. They were clearly fortifications with NPC guards beyond what you find at a typical settlement like Stonard or Nethergarde or whatever -- there were named officers and other elites -- and I expect that Outlands will bring a new meaning to the term "Contested" zone. Or so I hope.

#20 oldmandennis

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 01:33 PM

The underpopulated side just woln't bother. Why fight the odds when you can easily go to a BG and face even odds, while getting PvP items for rep? On PvE servers, it woln't change anything. On PvP servers, one sides farmers get a buff, while another sides get a bunch of kiddies trying to gank them all the time. Cheaper agility enchants - another benefit of playing the pretty toons. Now I have to consider if I want to try and grind out CC rep and badges, while I have a chance.

To the extent that its not underwhelming, it seems pretty stupid. If anything it should be in the lower level zones, that way even on PvE servers people would have a chance to opt in to a bit of PvP action.

Edit: Jebus, this topic is moving fast. These remarks weren't so bland when I started typing them.




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