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Rawr DPSDK version 2.3.6 released 1/18/10


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#41 Bllets

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Posted 16 October 2009 - 12:56 PM

Was thinking if you were planning to introduce so it's possible to check specs against several targets?

I've seen it in other classes Rawr's, and i think it could be a nice addition, since we don't see many single target fights these days. And several targets benefits other stats more then others, specific sigils over others and so on.

#42 testor

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Posted 16 October 2009 - 05:27 PM

When adding glyph of rune strike, my threat actually goes down 1 point versus not activating it at all.

#43 frozenkex

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Posted 17 October 2009 - 02:10 AM

Hmm for some reason while im under hit cap, it prefers 10str + 10 crit over 10str + 10 hit, kind of weird, since it should be no brainer that under hit cap, hit>crit. Maybe the 4piece t9 bonus puts crit rating value too high.

#44 Shazear

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 11:26 PM

When adding glyph of rune strike, my threat actually goes down 1 point versus not activating it at all.


Are you referring to the DPSDK model or the TankDK model? Assuming that you mean Tank DK because you're referring to threat, there is some valuation for Glyph of Rune Strike. You can argue that the current implementation undervalues 10% crit for rune strikes. but in 2.2.22 & 23 both have a value for Glyph of RuneStrike.

I am currently working on refactoring how threat and abilities are used within the Tank model, so we may see an improvement in future releases, but I don't have anything that is specifically targeted at changing the value of this Glyph.

#45 Evilbunny

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 02:45 PM

Is there a Tank DK thread for rawr? I have noticed a number of issues (like sigil of virulence addings 600 strength and the relative stat value of stamina being stuck at 1) but I don't want to clutter up the DKDPS thread if possible.

#46 Shazear

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 05:10 PM

Is there a Tank DK thread for rawr? I have noticed a number of issues (like sigil of virulence addings 600 strength and the relative stat value of stamina being stuck at 1) but I don't want to clutter up the DKDPS thread if possible.


Not yet, because I haven't had enough posts to be able to start a new thread yet. Let me see if this puts me over the limit and then I'll start one.

#47 Shazear

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 05:16 PM

I have noticed a number of issues (like sigil of virulence addings 600 strength and the relative stat value of stamina being stuck at 1) but I don't want to clutter up the DKDPS thread if possible.


Unfortunately, still not over the 10 post limit yet, so let me speak to the issues you bring up.

1) Feel free to post issues on the Rawr Issue tracker: Rawr - Issue Tracker
2) Virulence should be fixed now. It may not be in 2.2.23, but should definitely be in 24 when it comes out.
3) Relative stat value of Stamina = 1. This is by design. Each model has the option of determining a "base-line" stat that all relative stats revolve around. I've chosen stamina, I believe Hunter at one time was using Agi, not sure if it still does. If you prefer to not see a baseline stat, I'd like to hear your reasons. I don't want to switch back and forth between turning this on or off, but maybe I could make an option to allow it to be user-configurable.

#48 Evilbunny

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 06:09 PM

Na, stamina makes sense as base stat, but it isn't functioning properly in .23.

I am using my current gear (changed virulence to a static 200 str for the time being) and a slightly modified blood rotation and changes the incoming damage per shot to 20k, everything else default.

The relative stat values it is showing me are:
Agility: 47.18
Dodge: 45.44
Defense: 45.20
Parry: 35.30
Expertise: 26.76
Strength: 21.12
Crit Rating: 15.93
Melee Crit: 15.93
Armor Pen: 13.13
Armor: 9.75
Haste: 8.83
Bonus Armor: 5.70
Attack Power: 5.37
Health: 4.11
Stamina: 1.00
Hit Rating: 0.15

I'm not melee hit-capped and yet hit is the lowest stat
Health is worth 4x as much as stamina
Agility is my best overall stat, worth 47.18 Stamina

Just at a quick glance (I don't know how you actually have it set up) it seems like the raw scores for Stamina and maybe Hit Rating are being divided by the Stamina raw score, but none of the other raw scores.

I'm using Win 7 RC; maybe I don't have an up to date copy of whatever rawr is built on and that is causing the problem? (e.g. java)

#49 Shazear

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 06:36 PM

Na, stamina makes sense as base stat, but it isn't functioning properly in .23.

I am using my current gear (changed virulence to a static 200 str for the time being) and a slightly modified blood rotation and changes the incoming damage per shot to 20k, everything else default.

I'm not melee hit-capped and yet hit is the lowest stat
Health is worth 4x as much as stamina
Agility is my best overall stat, worth 47.18 Stamina

Just at a quick glance (I don't know how you actually have it set up) it seems like the raw scores for Stamina and maybe Hit Rating are being divided by the Stamina raw score, but none of the other raw scores.

I'm using Win 7 RC; maybe I don't have an up to date copy of whatever rawr is built on and that is causing the problem? (e.g. java)


Win 7 should not be a problem. I'm running Win7 RTM on my laptop, and WinXP x64 on my Dev machine, and things seem pretty consistent. I have .NET 3.5 running on both.

I'll look at your character as soon as Armory comes back from Maintenance.

#50 Shazear

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 10:01 PM

Ok... There is definitely some funny-business going on with your character. Looks like the problem is in the talents. With your current Blood DPS build that I see on the armory, the stats are as you describe them. Even on my latest local build. As soon as I clear them out, or apply a couple different tank builds, the numbers are more reasonable. So something in the way I'm processing the talents are making for really weird numbers.

Do you want to write up the issue on the Rawr Issue Tracker or should I?

#51 Evilbunny

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 03:13 PM

Ok... There is definitely some funny-business going on with your character. Looks like the problem is in the talents. With your current Blood DPS build that I see on the armory, the stats are as you describe them. Even on my latest local build. As soon as I clear them out, or apply a couple different tank builds, the numbers are more reasonable. So something in the way I'm processing the talents are making for really weird numbers.

Do you want to write up the issue on the Rawr Issue Tracker or should I?


Those were from my blood tanking build, not DPS. So, basically I am breaking the program somewhere, awesome. So my blood DPS build breaks it too? That leads me to believe that it is a problem with a blood talent, maybe one of the proc talents? Procs seem to be a bit screwy in 23 in general.

It would be awesome if you could do that write up. =)

#52 ariantes

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 03:26 PM

It would be awesome if Blood Boil could be included in the DK rotation for the DPSDK version.

#53 Evilbunny

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 07:13 PM

It would be awesome if Blood Boil could be included in the DK rotation for the DPSDK version.


[Raises Eyebrow]
... for why?

Are you trying to figure out your best DPS set for Onyxia Whelps? With T9 2pc I can't really see you using Blood Boil in many other situations.

#54 RADRyanD

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 08:12 PM

[Raises Eyebrow]
... for why?

Are you trying to figure out your best DPS set for Onyxia Whelps? With T9 2pc I can't really see you using Blood Boil in many other situations.


Blood Boil > Blood Strike for DW Unholy when Desolation is up.

#55 Gearbox

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Posted 28 October 2009 - 12:35 AM

Any particular reason that is coming up as a fractionally higher rating when socketing an item with a yellow slot that has +Str socket bonus?

Example considering only the gem in question and the socket bonus of +4 STR:

Bloodbath Girdle + > (20*2.89) = 57.8
Bloodbath Girdle + > ((14*2.89)+(10*1.56)) = 56.06

Follows suit to show that Gemming for +STR wins, but the most recent version of Rawr doesn't seem to agree. I did not notice it doing this a month or so ago.

#56 Bloody_sorcerer

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Posted 28 October 2009 - 03:05 AM

Where are you getting the 2.89 and 1.56 multipliers from?

Torture/terrorism/war/taxes? Whatever. But if this motherfucker doesn't realize why the heroic strike change is complete shit...

STOP SHITTING UP THE THREAD MALAN


#57 Evilbunny

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Posted 28 October 2009 - 03:00 PM

Where are you getting the 2.89 and 1.56 multipliers from?


The first page in Blood Simple under stat weights.

#58 Bloody_sorcerer

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Posted 28 October 2009 - 04:20 PM

Rawr does not use any stat weight system internally in order to calculate the DPS benefit of a given item. Instead, it uses a closed-form mathematical model to calculate DPS for your current gear, the DPS of your current gear with a selected slot empty, and the DPS of your current gear with every available item in that slot. The difference between DPS with that slot empty and that slot full is then assigned to that item for your current gear setup. As a result, Rawr is able to dynamically determine DPS benefits with a much higher granularity than traditional stat weighting systems.

Basically, it's telling you the inscribed ametrine is marginally higher DPS because it is marginally higher DPS for your character with your current gear, raid buffs, and rotation options.

Torture/terrorism/war/taxes? Whatever. But if this motherfucker doesn't realize why the heroic strike change is complete shit...

STOP SHITTING UP THE THREAD MALAN


#59 Gearbox

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Posted 28 October 2009 - 04:37 PM

I gotcha. I will wait patiently for my last piece for 4pt9 and for your GoD updates and see where I stand :) Thanks!

#60 evilhacker

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Posted 30 October 2009 - 08:44 PM

Rawr does not use any stat weight system internally in order to calculate the DPS benefit of a given item. Instead, it uses a closed-form mathematical model to calculate DPS for your current gear, the DPS of your current gear with a selected slot empty, and the DPS of your current gear with every available item in that slot. The difference between DPS with that slot empty and that slot full is then assigned to that item for your current gear setup. As a result, Rawr is able to dynamically determine DPS benefits with a much higher granularity than traditional stat weighting systems.

Basically, it's telling you the inscribed ametrine is marginally higher DPS because it is marginally higher DPS for your character with your current gear, raid buffs, and rotation options.


When Rawr evaluates DPS for hit (or more properly, for miss), is it assuming you'll reapply the disease as soon as the next rune is available or when the strike comes back into rotation?

When I use a gear setup that's significantly under the hit cap and a non-GoDisease blood spec, Rawr still strongly prefers crit gems to hit gems and I just can't seem to understand why this would be the case.




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