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Shadow Priest Gear Discussion (ToTC)


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#1 Mearis

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 09:43 AM

I wanted to get another thread with some more in-depth discussion of shadowpriest gearing, because for the first time in an expansion, there are actually significant itemization choices to be made.

What makes gearing 'tricky' is that heroic ToTC provides a huge amount of ilevel 258 loot, but set items are incredibly rare, and almost nobody will have a full 258 T9 set. A lot of shadowpriests will now be in a position where keeping the set bonuses means forsaking well itemized 258 gear for absolutely terrible 245 set gear loaded with spirit and haste.

Tedv wrote a very good thread about how terrible spirit is for shadowpriests, but the short version is that due to how abysmal our scaling with spirit is, gear loaded with spirit is almost always worse than gear almost two tiers below it that does not have spirit.

This means that the theoretical best in slot uses full 258 set pieces, but realistically, for the first time in recent wow raiding history, aiming for full bis is completely impossible. Assuming 6 months until icecrown, and 2 or 3 regalias per hardmode clear, your guild will have at most 6*4*3 regalia, which is woefully insufficient to fill out a BiS set. We thus have to aim not at BiS sets but at REALISTIC BiS sets.

For reference, here is an excellent thread, courtesy of Althor and other shadowpriests who ran the numbers with the fantastic Simcraft:

shadowpriest.com • View topic - Best Raiding Gear Available 3.2

As you can see, all our set pieces are absolutely terrible. They have a lot of spirit, which is pretty much a dump stat, and a lot of useless stats.

For example, compare Merlin's robe:

Merlin's Robe

to:

Velen's Raiments of Triumph

For Gloves:

Gloves of the Lifeless Touch - Items - Sigrie

to:

Velen's Handwraps of Triumph

Given that the 2+4 piece set bonus is worth roughly 165 spell power, how many people are planning on skipping the set bonuses all-together? This looks like the most sensible path unless you get very lucky and score some 258 regalias.

#2 Uzziel

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 01:20 PM

Right now, I am at a very sad point where I don't even see a reason to break my 2pc T8 bonus and at the same time, I don't see myself getting the T9 2pc until I have at least two pieces of 258. Every slot for 245-tier pieces has another item that is significantly better and just as hard to attain. I am not entirely sold on the set bonus for Tier 9 either. I know that it will be a DPS increase, but it doesn't seem quite as tangible as a flat damage increase (as with T8.)

It seems to me that every slot for 245-tier pieces has another item that is significantly better and just as easy to attain. I compared what I've looked at below. Right now, I am planning my gear upgrades around getting a sort of "Pre-BiS" set that includes T8 2pc as well as a bunch of other ilvl 245 and 258 nonset pieces until I can get two pieces of ilvl 258 T9.

Head:
Pre-BiS: - 1 of 2 T8
BiS: - Healing 258 Helmet

Shoulder:
Pre-BiS: - 67 Hit, Crit, SP, 0 spirit.
BiS: - DPS 258

Chest:
Pre-BiS: - No Spirit.
BiS: - DPS 258

Gloves:
Pre-BiS - 2 of 2 T8
BiS: - DPS 258 (68 Hit)

Legs:
Pre-BiS: - DPS 245 (90 Hit)
BiS: - DPS 258 (102 Hit)

One nice thing about ToTC gear is that non-set slots seem to be pretty straight forward. In my opinion, based on the Pseudo Power calculations, the decisions for other slots other than back is straight forward. For the most part, it comes down to where you are juggling hit on your outfit (which also depends on your luck of course!)

Neck: (no spirit!)
Back: Right now? Whatever you can get in my opinion.
Wrist:
Belt: (ilvl 258, 58 Hit)
Feet: (ilvl 258) OR (ilvl 258, 60 Hit)
Finger: (258) and (ilvl 258)/ (Darkmender has 0.3 more PP)
Wand: (245)

I know this post is somewhat lengthy, but I want to tie it together with the matter of hit on our gear. Thankfully, as shadow priests, we get a lot of hit from talents and we bring misery, needing only 289 to be at hit cap (without Heroic Presence of course.) Using the items above, my Pre-BiS set comes out to a total of 275 hit. A single hit gem or even icewalker enchant would be more than enough to overcome the last few points. And the BiS set? 288 when including the Boots of Icy Floe, otherwise it is 228 that can be overcome with either a +hit cloak, trinket or rings. As nice as it is to need so little hit, I've found it hard to determine which pieces I want to go with when considering hit because each piece has so much hit.

#3 Gofa

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 01:26 PM

My intention is to go 2 piece t9 (shoulders + gloves) and fill the rest of my gear with offset pieces. According to some simcraft data going for the 4pc setbonus with the 258 set (without head I believe) offers the best dps but just as you said, it's really hard to get these tokens. Of course we still don't know how many tokens drop if you can clear ToTC in less than 25 or in less than 45 attempts, but even if noticeable more tokens drop there, I really doubt many guilds can accomplish this soon.

I think gearing is a little bit similar to old sunwell gearing. There are so many upgrades available that you basically take (almost) everything you can get and ignore a BiS gear set first of all. I even think the biggest factor about your gear decisions will be your hit rating at the moment. You don't want to end up with way too much hit, because excessive hit is just wasted.

#4 Horky

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 04:55 PM

For example, compare Merlin's robe:

Merlin's Robe

to:

Velen's Raiments of Triumph

For Gloves:

Gloves of the Lifeless Touch - Items - Sigrie

to:

Velen's Handwraps of Triumph



Well, neither are a good compare for the point.

Assuming all red gems for simplification, Merlin's is 331.38 pseudo-power and the 245 tier chest is 284.92. But if you add in the 41 spell power that 1/4 of the 2+4 piece is worth on the chest, it jumps to 326.17 pseudo-power, which is not that far behind Merlin's.

Similarly with the gloves, assuming we're comparing 258 against each other, 258 Lifeless Touch are worth 273.81. The 258 tier gloves are worth 220.64. If you add in the 41 spell power, they become worth 261.89. That's a bit short but that's not even including the hit. With hit they are worth 365.93 and not a shabby hit piece at that, considering that they have almost as much hit as Dying Curse and since they only fall behind the highest pseudo-power piece, Lifeless Touch, by 75 dps without the hit or the 4 piece bonus.

It was pretty shocking to see that only the 245 and 258 tier helms could beat the Conqueror's Circlet of Sanctification in pure pseudo-power. At least the 258 shoulders are BiS. Barely. I did like what they did with the two piece; at least it will change the rotation a bit.

As far as ignoring the tier gear, here are some comparisons between a few sets in Simcraft. The sets all have the same hit, trinkets and spec across each, so that it wouldn't change anything else in Simcraft, as well as all of the other stats (except for the mp5) from Althor's current BiS 258, no Shadow Word: Death set:

Althor's
head=velens_cowl_of_triumph,
neck=wail_of_the_valkyr
shoulders=velens_mantle_of_triumph
chest=velens_raiments_of_triumph
waist=cord_of_biting_cold
legs=velens_pants_of_triumph
feet=boots_of_the_mourning_widow
wrists=bejeweled_wizards_bracers
hands=velens_handwraps_of_triumph
finger1=band_of_deplorable_violence
finger2=ring_of_the_darkmender
trinket1=flare_of_the_heavens
trinket2=reign_of_the_unliving
back=jainas_radiance
main_hand=miserys_end
off_hand=symbol_of_transgression
ranged=rod_of_imprisoned_souls

3065 spell power
297 hit
890 crit
537 haste
1189 int
441 spirit


No tier bonus and using Belt of the Biting Cold, Breeches of the Deepening Void, Talisman of Heedless Sins and Skyweaver Vestments for hit. Everything else is the highest pseudo-power including the 258 Shadow tier shoulders and 258 Holy tier helm.

3179 spell power
295 hit
974 crit
514 haste
1332 int
532 spirit


2pc, using the tier shoulders and the pants, as well as the Holy tier helm, and Skyweaver Vestments, Dark Essence Bindings and the Belt of Biting Cold for hit.

3139 spell power
289 hit
913 crit
550 haste
1339 int
589 spirit


Tier gear using every piece but the gloves, Dark Essence Bindings and the Belt of Biting Cold for additional hit.

3178 spell power
297 hit
827 crit
550 haste
1339 int
675 spirit


The above 4 pc tier set with 245 tier instead of 258, which requires you to use the Talisman offhand instead of the Dark Essence Bindings to make up for the hit, and a Veiled Noble in a Yellow socket.

3057 spell power
297 hit
783 crit
576 haste
1284 int
585 spirit



8660 12.0% Tier258_T9_13_00_58_258
8600 11.9% 2pc258_T9_13_00_58_258
8491 11.7% Notier_T9_13_00_58_258
8450 11.7% AlthorsPriest_T9_13_00_58_258
8439 10.5% Tier245_T9_13_00_58_258

There's a 200 dps difference, or the equivalent not equipping your cloak or bracers.

Maybe it would be best to go for 2 piece and hope for the rest.

#5 Breklin

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 05:41 PM

8660 12.0% Tier258_T9_13_00_58_258
8600 11.9% 2pc258_T9_13_00_58_258
8491 11.7% Notier_T9_13_00_58_258
8450 11.7% AlthorsPriest_T9_13_00_58_258
8439 10.5% Tier245_T9_13_00_58_258

There's a 200 dps difference, or the equivalent not equipping your cloak or bracers.

Maybe it would be best to go for 2 piece and hope for the rest.


Is that a suggestion for 2pcT9.245 or 258? I personally have gone for 2pcT9.245 for the set bonus given how it has a positive effect on our 'rotation'. I'm also picking up 258 offset pieces where I can given the large stat increases, but not breaking 2pcT8 along the way (will most likely keep helm/chest). Once we have access to more T9.258 I'll aim at getting 4pc.

We use loot council and so I generally have access to some good and frequent gear upgrades - people with other loot systems may need to evaluate their priorities differently.

#6 moowalk

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 09:42 PM

An important flip side to this arguement is how important set bonuses are for other classes. For the most part, I get the impression that they're pretty lackluster.

Horky's analysis suggests 60 dps difference between 2 piece t258 and 4 piece t258. I'd feel uncomfortable taking those items if going from 2 piece to 4 piece was a much greater improvement for other classes.

#7 Gourd

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 02:03 AM

An important flip side to this arguement is how important set bonuses are for other classes. For the most part, I get the impression that they're pretty lackluster.

Horky's analysis suggests 60 dps difference between 2 piece t258 and 4 piece t258. I'd feel uncomfortable taking those items if going from 2 piece to 4 piece was a much greater improvement for other classes.


While true for some classes, you'd need to compare both their set bonuses against ours, and the dps loss from poor itemization of the two sets, in order to really get an accurate idea of how the sets compare overall.

If given the option of a bis set that is based around 4pc t9, and one that is not, the 4pc t9 set is indeed superior because of the set bonuses. However, if you end up picking up numerous heroic drops and are still without the higher ilvl t9 gear, it's possible that you'll be (temporarily) better off skipping out on wearing some of your t9 until you have access to enough of the higher ilvl set pieces.

#8 Althor

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 06:59 AM

Just as an update to my BiS 258 set:

1) Given that the 245 ilvl Reign of the Unliving trinket builds stacks of Mote of Flame and the 258 ilvl one builds stacks of Shard of Flame it would seem *highly* likely that both trinkets can be used together. SimCraft shows that using both of these trinkets is a better combination (at least in BiS T9 gear) than using Flare of the Heavens + the 258 Reign of the Unliving.

2) Maybe especially because of using not 1, but *2* Reign's (sorry, I couldn't resist) the relative value of crit rating is a lot higher than before. These trinkets don't scale with spell power or spirit. However the more crit% you have the more often they will proc (until you reach the ICD of course) and the faster you're casting the more often they will proc. As mentioned this definitely raises the value of crit rating, but it also boosts the value of haste rating.
Because of this, the heroic 10man version of the Firestorm Ring/Band becomes a very good source of +hit rating and, especially when combined with the increase to spirit scaling in 3.2.2, the relative worth of the Symbol of Transgression compared to the Chalice of Searing Light drops.

As such I've updated the SimulationCraft T9 258 BiS set to replace the Ring of the Darkmender with the 10man heroic Firestorm Ring, the Symbol of Transgression is replaced with the Chalice of Searing Light and the Flare of the Heavens is replaced by the ilvl 245 Reign of the Unliving.

There's an alternative to that set that is just as good (the DPS difference even after 40000 iterations was still under 1 dps) which uses the Bindings of Dark Essence to replace the Bejeweled Wizard Bracers instead of replacing the Ring of the Darkmender with the Firestorm Ring/Band.

I ran a bunch of scaling tests the other day and wrote up a report about them on shadowpriest.com.
See: shadowpriest.com • View topic - Scaling Coefficients

As for a "Reasonable-To-Expect" BiS set... I agree. It would appear unlikely that anyone will (fairly) achieve the full T9 BiS set before Icecrown is released.

And so I imagine there would be some interest in a BiS set that maybe allowed only say, 2 of the ilvl 258 set pieces and maybe disallowed the tribute chest cloak? Though I could see allowing the cloak.

What do you guys think would be a useful guide?

As for the sets listed above which are claimed to out-perform my BiS set...I'll run the numbers and see if my results match yours.

#9 Althor

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 07:33 AM

8660 12.0% Tier258_T9_13_00_58_258
8600 11.9% 2pc258_T9_13_00_58_258
8491 11.7% Notier_T9_13_00_58_258
8450 11.7% AlthorsPriest_T9_13_00_58_258
8439 10.5% Tier245_T9_13_00_58_258

There's a 200 dps difference, or the equivalent not equipping your cloak or bracers.

Maybe it would be best to go for 2 piece and hope for the rest.


I've tried to reconstruct your various sets (apart from the 245 one) and run them through SimCraft myself.

I'm using the latest version of SimCraft from the trunk.

My results after 10000 iterations were:

With patch=3.2.0 (the default)
SimulationCraft for World of Warcraft build 3.2.0 ( iterations=10000, max_time=300, optimal_raid=1, smooth_rng=0 )

DPS Ranking:
  41529 100.0%  Raid
   8423  20.3%  Priest_T9_13_00_58_258
   8379  20.2%  4pc
   8342  20.1%  2pc
   8230  19.8%  notier
   8200  19.7%  notier_firestorm

With patch=3.2.2 (Latest PTR build)
SimulationCraft for World of Warcraft build 3.2.2 ( iterations=10000, max_time=300, optimal_raid=1, smooth_rng=0 )

DPS Ranking:
  42248 100.0%  Raid
   8583  20.3%  Priest_T9_13_00_58_258
   8538  20.2%  4pc
   8480  20.1%  2pc
   8357  19.8%  notier
   8335  19.7%  notier_firestorm

(The notier_firestorm one is notier but using firestorm ring rather than Ring of the Darkmender and Chalice of Searing Light rather than Symbol of Transgression).


In my runs my BiS set came out ahead. It's possible that I've missed an item you expected. Or it's possible that you may have made a mistake when calculating your stats.

Here is the .simcraft file I used to generate the profiles:
#!simcraft

Globals_T9.simcraft

optimal_raid=1


wowhead=13357966 name=Priest_T9_13_00_58_258      save=h_Priest_T9_13_00_58_258.simcraft
head=velens_cowl_of_triumph,id=48035,gems=chaotic_skyflare_12sp_10spi_9sp,enchant=30sp_20crit
neck=wail_of_the_valkyr,id=47144,gems=12sp_10crit_5sp
shoulders=velens_mantle_of_triumph,id=48082,gems=12sp_10crit_5sp,enchant=24sp_15crit
back=jainas_radiance,id=47552,gems=23sp_5sp,enchant=lightweave
chest=velens_raiments_of_triumph,id=48083,gems=23sp_23sp,enchant=10all
wrists=bejeweled_wizards_bracers,id=47585,gems=23sp,enchant=30sp
hands=velens_handwraps_of_triumph,id=48086,gems=12sp_10crit_5sp,enchant=28sp
waist=cord_of_biting_cold,id=47084,gems=12sp_10spi_23sp_23sp_7sp
legs=velens_pants_of_triumph,id=48084,gems=23sp_23sp,enchant=50sp_20spi
feet=boots_of_the_mourning_widow,id=47097,gems=23sp_23sp,enchant=12crit_12hit		
finger1=band_of_deplorable_violence,id=47237,gems=12sp_10crit_5sp,enchant=23sp
finger2=firestorm_ring,id=47928,gems=23sp_5sp,enchant=23sp
trinket1=reign_of_the_unliving,id=47182,gems=0sp
trinket2=reign_of_the_unliving,id=47188,gems=0sp
main_hand=miserys_end,id=47206,gems=0sp,enchant=63sp
off_hand=chalice_of_searing_light,id=47146,gems=0sp
ranged=rod_of_imprisoned_souls,id=47922,gems=0sp


wowhead=13357966 name=notier_firestorm      save=h_notier_firestorm.simcraft
head=velens_cowl_of_triumph,id=48035,gems=chaotic_skyflare_12sp_10spi_9sp,enchant=30sp_20crit
neck=wail_of_the_valkyr,id=47144,gems=12sp_10crit_5sp
shoulders=velens_mantle_of_triumph,id=48082,gems=12sp_10crit_5sp,enchant=24sp_15crit
back=jainas_radiance,id=47552,gems=23sp_5sp,enchant=lightweave
chest=skyweaver_robes,id=47129,gems=23sp_23sp_23sp,enchant=10all
wrists=bejeweled_wizards_bracers,id=47585,gems=23sp,enchant=30sp
hands=gloves_of_the_lifeless_touch,id=47236,gems=23sp_23sp,enchant=28sp
waist=cord_of_biting_cold,id=47084,gems=12sp_10spi_23sp_23sp_7sp
legs=leggings_of_the_deepening_void,id=47189,gems=23sp_23sp_23sp,enchant=50sp_20spi
feet=boots_of_the_mourning_widow,id=47097,gems=23sp_23sp,enchant=12crit_12hit		
finger1=band_of_deplorable_violence,id=47237,gems=12sp_10crit_5sp,enchant=23sp
finger2=firestorm_ring,id=47928,gems=23sp_5sp,enchant=23sp
trinket1=reign_of_the_unliving,id=47182,gems=0sp
trinket2=reign_of_the_unliving,id=47188,gems=0sp
main_hand=miserys_end,id=47206,gems=0sp,enchant=63sp
off_hand=chalice_of_searing_light,id=47146,gems=0sp
ranged=rod_of_imprisoned_souls,id=47922,gems=0sp

wowhead=13357966 name=notier      save=h_notier.simcraft
head=velens_cowl_of_triumph,id=48035,gems=chaotic_skyflare_12sp_10spi_9sp,enchant=30sp_20crit
neck=wail_of_the_valkyr,id=47144,gems=12sp_10crit_5sp
shoulders=velens_mantle_of_triumph,id=48082,gems=12sp_10crit_5sp,enchant=24sp_15crit
back=jainas_radiance,id=47552,gems=23sp_5sp,enchant=lightweave
chest=skyweaver_robes,id=47129,gems=23sp_23sp_23sp,enchant=10all
wrists=bejeweled_wizards_bracers,id=47585,gems=23sp,enchant=30sp
hands=gloves_of_the_lifeless_touch,id=47236,gems=23sp_23sp,enchant=28sp
waist=cord_of_biting_cold,id=47084,gems=12sp_10spi_23sp_23sp_7sp
legs=leggings_of_the_deepening_void,id=47189,gems=23sp_23sp_23sp,enchant=50sp_20spi
feet=boots_of_the_mourning_widow,id=47097,gems=23sp_23sp,enchant=12crit_12hit		
finger1=band_of_deplorable_violence,id=47237,gems=12sp_10crit_5sp,enchant=23sp
finger2=ring_of_the_darkmender,id=47224,gems=12sp_10crit_5sp,enchant=23sp
trinket1=reign_of_the_unliving,id=47182,gems=0sp
trinket2=reign_of_the_unliving,id=47188,gems=0sp
main_hand=miserys_end,id=47206,gems=0sp,enchant=63sp
off_hand=symbol_of_transgression,id=47064,gems=0sp
ranged=rod_of_imprisoned_souls,id=47922,gems=0sp


wowhead=13357966 name=2pc      save=h_2pc.simcraft
head=velens_cowl_of_triumph,id=48035,gems=chaotic_skyflare_12sp_10spi_9sp,enchant=30sp_20crit
neck=wail_of_the_valkyr,id=47144,gems=12sp_10crit_5sp
shoulders=velens_mantle_of_triumph,id=48082,gems=12sp_10crit_5sp,enchant=24sp_15crit
back=jainas_radiance,id=47552,gems=23sp_5sp,enchant=lightweave
chest=skyweaver_robes,id=47129,gems=23sp_23sp_23sp,enchant=10all
wrists=dark_essence_bindings,id=47467,gems=12sp_10crit_5sp,enchant=30sp
hands=gloves_of_the_lifeless_touch,id=47236,gems=23sp_23sp,enchant=28sp
waist=cord_of_biting_cold,id=47084,gems=12sp_10spi_23sp_23sp_7sp
legs=velens_pants_of_triumph,id=48084,gems=23sp_23sp,enchant=50sp_20spi
feet=boots_of_the_mourning_widow,id=47097,gems=23sp_23sp,enchant=12crit_12hit		
finger1=band_of_deplorable_violence,id=47237,gems=12sp_10crit_5sp,enchant=23sp
finger2=ring_of_the_darkmender,id=47224,gems=12sp_10crit_5sp,enchant=23sp
trinket1=reign_of_the_unliving,id=47182,gems=0sp
trinket2=reign_of_the_unliving,id=47188,gems=0sp
main_hand=miserys_end,id=47206,gems=0sp,enchant=63sp
off_hand=chalice_of_searing_light,id=47146,gems=0sp
ranged=rod_of_imprisoned_souls,id=47922,gems=0sp

wowhead=13357966 name=4pc      save=h_4pc.simcraft
head=velens_circlet_of_triumph,id=48085,gems=chaotic_skyflare_12sp_10spi_9sp,enchant=30sp_20crit
neck=wail_of_the_valkyr,id=47144,gems=12sp_10crit_5sp
shoulders=velens_mantle_of_triumph,id=48082,gems=12sp_10crit_5sp,enchant=24sp_15crit
back=jainas_radiance,id=47552,gems=23sp_5sp,enchant=lightweave
chest=velens_raiments_of_triumph,id=48083,gems=23sp_23sp,enchant=10all
wrists=dark_essence_bindings,id=47467,gems=12sp_10crit_5sp,enchant=30sp
hands=gloves_of_the_lifeless_touch,id=47236,gems=23sp_23sp,enchant=28sp
waist=cord_of_biting_cold,id=47084,gems=12sp_10spi_23sp_23sp_7sp
legs=velens_pants_of_triumph,id=48084,gems=23sp_23sp,enchant=50sp_20spi
feet=boots_of_the_mourning_widow,id=47097,gems=23sp_23sp,enchant=12crit_12hit		
finger1=band_of_deplorable_violence,id=47237,gems=12sp_10crit_5sp,enchant=23sp
finger2=ring_of_the_darkmender,id=47224,gems=12sp_10crit_5sp,enchant=23sp
trinket1=reign_of_the_unliving,id=47182,gems=0sp
trinket2=reign_of_the_unliving,id=47188,gems=0sp
main_hand=miserys_end,id=47206,gems=0sp,enchant=63sp
off_hand=chalice_of_searing_light,id=47146,gems=0sp
ranged=rod_of_imprisoned_souls,id=47922,gems=0sp

save_profiles=1

And here are the stats portions of each set:

Priest_T9_13_00_58_258
# Gear Summary
# gear_strength=10
# gear_agility=10
# gear_stamina=1189
# gear_intellect=1183
# gear_spirit=498
# gear_spell_power=3215
# gear_hit_rating=296
# gear_crit_rating=793
# gear_haste_rating=488
# gear_armor=2169
# meta_gem=chaotic_skyflare
# tier9_2pc_caster=1
# tier9_4pc_caster=1
# back=jainas_radiance,enchant=lightweave
# main_hand=miserys_end,weapon=mace_1.80speed_125.3dps

notier:
# Gear Summary
# gear_strength=10
# gear_agility=10
# gear_stamina=1200
# gear_intellect=1189
# gear_spirit=347
# gear_spell_power=3262
# gear_mp5=28
# gear_hit_rating=307
# gear_crit_rating=830
# gear_haste_rating=527
# gear_armor=2169
# meta_gem=chaotic_skyflare
# back=jainas_radiance,enchant=lightweave
# main_hand=miserys_end,weapon=mace_1.80speed_125.3dps

2pc:
# Gear Summary
# gear_strength=10
# gear_agility=10
# gear_stamina=1207
# gear_intellect=1196
# gear_spirit=404
# gear_spell_power=3253
# gear_mp5=28
# gear_hit_rating=301
# gear_crit_rating=769
# gear_haste_rating=563
# gear_armor=2176
# meta_gem=chaotic_skyflare
# tier9_2pc_caster=1
# back=jainas_radiance,enchant=lightweave
# main_hand=miserys_end,weapon=mace_1.80speed_125.3dps

4pc:
# Gear Summary
# gear_strength=10
# gear_agility=10
# gear_stamina=1207
# gear_intellect=1196
# gear_spirit=490
# gear_spell_power=3239
# gear_mp5=28
# gear_hit_rating=309
# gear_crit_rating=683
# gear_haste_rating=563
# gear_armor=2176
# meta_gem=chaotic_skyflare
# tier9_2pc_caster=1
# tier9_4pc_caster=1
# back=jainas_radiance,enchant=lightweave
# main_hand=miserys_end,weapon=mace_1.80speed_125.3dps


#10 Graf

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 10:28 AM

What do you guys think would be a useful guide?


A BiS based on multimob, non mindsearable bossfight.

In TotGC almost all fight there is multiDotting involed, this BiS is based
on single target, and thats abit 2008.

No idea if the values gonna differ alot (2pt9 might jump up), but it might have
some influence on certain items.

#11 Althor

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 10:37 AM

A BiS based on multimob, non mindsearable bossfight.

In TotGC almost all fight there is multiDotting involed, this BiS is based
on single target, and thats abit 2008.

No idea if the values gonna differ alot (2pt9 might jump up), but it might have
some influence on certain items.


I mean: Given that it seems rather improbable that anyone is going to be able to reach the full BiS set before Icecrown is released given the low availability of the ilvl 258 tier tokens as well as the high contention and difficulty of obtaining the ilvl 278 cloaks, what sort of restrictions on loot would be "appropriate" for a More-Realistic-But-Still-Hardcore BiS list.

While there has been a little bit of discussion about modeling cleaves and maybe proper multi-target support to SimulationCraft on our developer mailing list, it's only at the early discussion phase at present. It would be a while before there was any such support.

#12 Graf

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 11:17 AM

Maybe make a BiS 245, from thereon, make a small "best bang for buck" list of 258 items.

#13 Horky

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 09:49 PM

I've tried to reconstruct your various sets (apart from the 245 one) and run them through SimCraft myself.

I'm using the latest version of SimCraft from the trunk.

My results after 10000 iterations were:

With patch=3.2.0 (the default)

SimulationCraft for World of Warcraft build 3.2.0 ( iterations=10000, max_time=300, optimal_raid=1, smooth_rng=0 )

DPS Ranking:
  41529 100.0%  Raid
   8423  20.3%  Priest_T9_13_00_58_258
   8379  20.2%  4pc
   8342  20.1%  2pc
   8230  19.8%  notier
   8200  19.7%  notier_firestorm


I found the problem. In trying to keep the trinkets the same, I'd left them unmarked in the gear listing but the on-equips were included in the total stats. So each of my sets had an additional 168 spellpower and 120 crit rating.

Furthermore, my spreadsheet adds the spellpower from Twisted Faith, as well as the Racial base stats, so that it will match doll sheets, and that's what's causing the difference in our stat listings.

The other difference with my spreadsheet is that it is based on Forsaken base stats. Also, Juggernaut uses Run Speed exclusively. :)

So I replaced the Ice Walker and added a Veiled to the gloves on your set and changed the races on both sets to Undead and got these results. (This is using your original set, not the new set with the Firestorm Band. )

DPS Ranking:
79688 100.0% Raid
8418 10.6% Horky_T9_13_00_58_258
8414 10.5% Althors_T9_13_00_58_258
8387 10.5% 2pc258_T9_13_00_58_258
8279 10.4% Notier_T9_13_00_58_258
8212 10.3% Tier245_T9_13_00_58_258


Changing the race made the difference.

The 200 dps difference between the 245 set and the 258 remains, despite the trinket mistake, naturally. The 2 piece set, however, is now only 30~ dps behind the full 258 set.

.simcraft:

priest=Althor_T9_13_00_58_258
origin=http://profiler.wowhead.com/?profile=13357966
level=80
race=undead
talents=http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=5&tal=0503203000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000325023051223010323152301351
glyphs=mind_flay/shadow_word_pain/shadow/fortitude/fading/levitate
actions=flask,type=frost_wyrm
actions+=/food,type=tender_shoveltusk_steak
actions+=/fortitude
actions+=/divine_spirit
actions+=/inner_fire
actions+=/shadow_form
actions+=/wild_magic_potion
actions+=/shadow_fiend
actions+=/shadow_word_pain,shadow_weaving_wait=1
actions+=/vampiric_touch
actions+=/devouring_plague
actions+=/mind_blast
actions+=/vampiric_embrace
actions+=/dispersion
actions+=/mind_flay
actions+=/shadow_word_death
head=velens_cowl_of_triumph,stats=282armor_86crit_151sp_116sta_116int_94spi,gems=chaotic_skyflare_12sp_10spi_9sp,enchant=30sp_20crit
neck=wail_of_the_valkyr,stats=65sta_65int_91sp_57crit_43haste,gems=12sp_10crit_5sp
shoulders=velens_mantle_of_triumph,stats=260armor_68crit_124sp_86sta_86int_76spi,gems=12sp_10crit_5sp,enchant=24sp_15crit
chest=velens_raiments_of_triumph,stats=347armor_94haste_160sp_116sta_116int_94spi,gems=23sp_23sp,enchant=10all
waist=cord_of_biting_cold,stats=195armor_58hit_73crit_114sp_86sta_86int,gems=12sp_10spi_23sp_23sp_7sp
legs=velens_pants_of_triumph,stats=303armor_102hit_86haste_160sp_116sta_116int,gems=23sp_23sp,enchant=50sp_20spi
feet=boots_of_the_mourning_widow,stats=238armor_68haste_124sp_86sta_86int_76spi,gems=23sp_23sp,enchant=15sta
wrists=bejeweled_wizards_bracers,stats=145armor_42crit_50haste_80sp_58sta_58int,gems=23sp,enchant=30sp
hands=velens_handwraps_of_triumph,stats=217armor_68hit_76crit_124sp_86sta_86int,gems=12sp_10hit_5sp,enchant=28sp
finger1=band_of_deplorable_violence,stats=65sta_50spi_65int_91sp_53crit,gems=12sp_10crit_5sp,enchant=23sp
finger2=ring_of_the_darkmender,stats=65sta_65int_91sp_28mp5_49haste,gems=12sp_10crit_5sp,enchant=23sp
trinket1=flare_of_the_heavens,stats=120crit,equip=onspellhit_850sp_10%_10dur_45cd
trinket2=reign_of_the_unliving,stats=168sp,equip=onspellcrit_2117fire_3stack_2.0cd
back=jainas_radiance,stats=74sta_74int_105sp_65crit_57haste_182armor,gems=23sp_5sp,enchant=lightweave
main_hand=miserys_end,stats=66sta_66int_701sp_44crit_66haste,gems=0sp,enchant=63sp,weapon=mace_1.80speed_125.3dps
off_hand=symbol_of_transgression,stats=65sta_65int_57hit_100sp_57crit,gems=0sp
ranged=rod_of_imprisoned_souls,stats=40sta_29int_50sp_31crit_24haste,gems=0sp
# Gear Summary
# gear_strength=10
# gear_agility=10
# gear_stamina=1200
# gear_intellect=1189
# gear_spirit=441
# gear_spell_power=3065
# gear_mp5=28
# gear_hit_rating=297
# gear_crit_rating=890
# gear_haste_rating=537
# gear_armor=2169
# meta_gem=chaotic_skyflare
# tier9_2pc=1
# tier9_4pc=1
# back=jainas_radiance,enchant=lightweave
# main_hand=miserys_end,weapon=mace_1.80speed_125.3dps


priest=Horky_T9_13_00_58_258
origin=http://profiler.wowhead.com/?profile=13357966
level=80
race=undead
talents=http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=5&tal=0503203000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000325023051223010323152301351
glyphs=mind_flay/shadow_word_pain/shadow/fortitude/fading/levitate
actions=flask,type=frost_wyrm
actions+=/food,type=tender_shoveltusk_steak
actions+=/fortitude
actions+=/divine_spirit
actions+=/inner_fire
actions+=/shadow_form
actions+=/wild_magic_potion
actions+=/shadow_fiend
actions+=/shadow_word_pain,shadow_weaving_wait=1
actions+=/vampiric_touch
actions+=/devouring_plague
actions+=/mind_blast
actions+=/vampiric_embrace
actions+=/dispersion
actions+=/mind_flay
actions+=/shadow_word_death
main_hand=sufferings_end,stats=66sta_66int_701sp_44crit_66haste,gems=0sp,enchant=63sp,weapon=mace_1.80speed_125.3dps
off_hand=mystifying_charm,stats=65sta_57spi_65int_100sp_57crit,gems=0sp
ranged=scepter_of_imprisoned_souls,stats=40sta_29int_50sp_31crit_24haste,gems=0sp
head=zabras_circlet_of_triumph,stats=282armor_94hit_151sp_116sta_116int_86spi,gems=chaotic_skyflare_12sp_10spi_9sp,enchant=30sp_20crit
neck=cry_of_the_valkyr,stats=65sta_65int_91sp_57crit_43haste,gems=12sp_10crit_5sp
shoulders=zabras_mantle_of_triumph,stats=260armor_68crit_124sp_86sta_86int_76spi,gems=12sp_10crit_5sp,enchant=24sp_15crit
back=aethas_intensity,stats=74sta_74int_105sp_65crit_57haste_182armor,gems=23sp_5sp,enchant=lightweave
chest=zabras_raiments_of_triumph,stats=347armor_94haste_160sp_116sta_116int_94spi,gems=23sp_12sp_10spi_7sp,enchant=10all
wrists=dark_essence_bindings,stats=152armor_57crit_43hit_91sp_65sta_65int,gems=12sp_10crit_5sp,enchant=30sp
hands=handwraps_of_the_lifeless_touch,stats=217armor_76haste_60crit_114sp_86sta_86int,gems=23sp_23sp,enchant=28sp
waist=belt_of_biting_cold,stats=195armor_58hit_73crit_114sp_86sta_86int,gems=23sp_23sp_23sp
legs=zabras_pants_of_triumph,stats=303armor_102hit_86haste_160sp_116sta_116int,gems=23sp_23sp,enchant=50sp_20spi
feet=sandals_of_the_mourning_widow,stats=238armor_68haste_124sp_86sta_86int_76spi,gems=23sp_23sp,enchant=15sta
finger1=lurid_manifestation,stats=65sta_50spi_65int_91sp_53crit,gems=12sp_10crit_5sp,enchant=23sp
finger2=nebula_band,stats=48sta_36int_74sp_36haste_46crit,gems=23sp,enchant=23sp
trinket1=flare_of_the_heavens,stats=120crit,equip=onspellhit_850sp_10%_10dur_45cd
trinket2=reign_of_the_dead,stats=168sp,equip=onspellcrit_2117fire_3stack_2.0cd
# Gear Summary
#gear_strength=10
#gear_agility=10
#gear_stamina=1253
#gear_intellect=1167
#gear_spirit=489
#gear_spell_power=3078
#gear_mp5=0
#gear_hit_rating=297
#gear_crit_rating=827
#gear_haste_rating=550
#gear_armor=2169
#meta_gem=chaotic_skyflare
#tier9_2pc=1
#tier9_4pc=1
#back=aethas_intensity,enchant=lightweave
#main_hand=sufferings_end,weapon=mace_1.80speed_125.3dps


#14 Althor

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 01:12 AM

What do you get when you run it with my current BiS set (which does include the Firestorm Ring)?

Changing the race between Undead and Night-Elf shouldn't change much. As you said, it should just change the base stats. I chose Night-Elf as the default rather than Undead because....I play one. Both would have been good choices however.

There's also very little actual gain from choosing Draenei for the Priest itself as my BiS Draenei set is the same as the BiS set for Priests without Heroic Presence as well.

Troll Priests definitely do see a DPS gain however from my modeling of Berserking.

By the way, I compiled my first shot at the Moonkin T9 BiS set for SimulationCraft last night using one of the Moonkin EJ threads for background as I have no direct experience playing a Moonkin.

The set I came up with was:
#!simcraft 

druid=Druid_T9_58_00_13
origin=http://profiler.wowhead.com/?profile=14187592
level=80
race=night_elf
talents=http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=11&tal=5012203125331323213305301031000000000000000000000000000000205003012
glyphs=starfire/moonfire/insect_swarm/the_wild/unburdened_rebirth/thorns
actions=flask,type=frost_wyrm
actions+=/food,type=fish_feast
actions+=/mark_of_the_wild
actions+=/moonkin_form
actions+=/snapshot_stats
actions+=/faerie_fire
actions+=/speed_potion
actions+=/innervate,trigger=-2000
actions+=/treants
actions+=/starfall,skip_on_eclipse=1
actions+=/starfire,instant=1
actions+=/moonfire
actions+=/insect_swarm
actions+=/wrath,eclipse=trigger
actions+=/starfire,eclipse=benefit
actions+=/wrath,eclipse=benefit
actions+=/starfire
head=malfurions_cover_of_triumph,stats=529armor_94hit_86crit_151sp_116sta_116int,gems=chaotic_skyflare_10crit_12sp_9sp,enchant=30sp_20crit
neck=wail_of_the_valkyr,stats=57crit_43haste_91sp_65sta_65int,gems=10crit_12sp_5sp
shoulders=malfurions_mantle_of_triumph,stats=489armor_68crit_124sp_86sta_86int_76spi,gems=10crit_12sp_5sp,enchant=24sp_15crit
chest=malfurions_vestments_of_triumph,stats=652armor_86crit_102haste_160sp_116sta_116int,gems=23sp_12sp_10spi_7sp,enchant=10str_10agi_10sta_10int_10spi
waist=cord_of_biting_cold,stats=195armor_58hit_73crit_114sp_86sta_86int,gems=23sp_23sp_23sp
legs=malfurions_trousers_of_triumph,stats=570armor_102hit_160sp_116sta_116int_86spi,gems=23sp_12sp_10spi_7sp,enchant=50sp_20spi
feet=boots_of_the_unrelenting_storm,stats=448armor_76crit_114sp_86sta_86int_60spi,gems=10crit_12sp_10crit_12sp_7sp,enchant=12crit_12hit
wrists=bejeweled_wizards_bracers,stats=145armor_42crit_50haste_80sp_58sta_58int,gems=23sp,enchant=30sp
hands=gloves_of_the_lifeless_touch,stats=86sta_86int_114sp_60crit_76haste_217armor,gems=23sp_23sp,enchant=28sp
finger1=band_of_deplorable_violence,stats=65sta_50spi_65int_91sp_53crit,gems=12sp_10crit_5sp,enchant=23sp
finger2=ring_of_the_darkmender,stats=49haste_28mp5_91sp_65sta_65int,gems=10crit_12sp_5sp,enchant=23sp
trinket1=reign_of_the_unliving,stats=150sp,equip=onspelldirectcrit_1882fire_3stack_2.0cd
trinket2=reign_of_the_unliving,stats=168sp,equip=onspelldirectcrit_2117fire_3stack_2.0cd
back=jainas_radiance,stats=74sta_74int_105sp_65crit_57haste_182armor,gems=23sp_5sp,enchant=lightweave
main_hand=miserys_end,stats=66sta_66int_701sp_44crit_66haste,gems=0sp,enchant=63sp,weapon=mace_1.80speed_125.3dps
off_hand=chalice_of_searing_light,stats=65sta_57spi_65int_100sp_57crit,gems=0sp
ranged=idol_of_lunar_fury
# Gear Summary
# gear_strength=10
# gear_agility=10
# gear_stamina=1160
# gear_intellect=1160
# gear_spirit=380
# gear_spell_power=3155
# gear_mp5=28
# gear_hit_rating=266
# gear_crit_rating=905
# gear_haste_rating=443
# gear_armor=3427
# meta_gem=chaotic_skyflare
# tier9_2pc_caster=1
# tier9_4pc_caster=1
# back=jainas_radiance,enchant=lightweave
# main_hand=miserys_end,weapon=mace_1.80speed_125.3dps

When I simmed this it was doing 9481 DPS in 3.2.0.

I ran the scale factor tests and the results were:

Druid_T9_58_00_13          Int=0.78  Spi=0.58  SP=1.69  Hit=3.95  Crit=1.52  Haste=1.36

This compares with the 3.2.0 scale factors from my Priest BiS set of:

Priest_T9_13_00_58_258      Int=0.407849  Spi=0.336746  SP=1.615100  Hit=3.029410  Crit=1.361240  Haste=1.166916

And, for 3.2.2:

Priest_T9_13_00_58_258      Int=0.418287  Spi=0.544676  SP=1.617890  Hit=3.084558  Crit=1.381826  Haste=1.191991

This (using 3.2.2 numbers) puts the relative scaling of a Moonkin versus a Shadow Priest at:
Intellect: +86.5%, Spirit: +6.5%, SP: +4.6%, Crit: +10%, Haste: +14.1%

#15 Gourd

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 04:04 AM

Has anyone perchance done any further gearset comparisons that take into consideration the base stats of races other than undead? I am currently trying to swap in and out various pieces of gear from Horky's set (in SimCraft) that will allow me to take the most advantage of my racial, as it would put me ~1.3% over the hit cap... However even despite this, I'm having a hard time finding a better combination.

edit: Right you are, somehow I missed that! Delete this please :)

#16 Althor

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 06:55 AM

Has anyone perchance done any further gearset comparisons that take into consideration the base stats of races other than undead? I am currently trying to swap in and out various pieces of gear from Horky's set (in SimCraft) that will allow me to take the most advantage of my racial, as it would put me ~1.3% over the hit cap... However even despite this, I'm having a hard time finding a better combination.


Read my previous post:

There's also very little actual gain from choosing Draenei for the Priest itself as my BiS Draenei set is the same as the BiS set for Priests without Heroic Presence as well.


There is a Priest_T9_13_00_58_258_draenei.simcraft profile included in SimulationCraft but it currently has the exact same gear as the non-draenei one.

#17 UnholY_Prince

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Posted 14 September 2009 - 08:52 AM

Alathor out of curiosity do you have an updated model for best simulated DPS combination that keeps 2 piece T8 and two piece 245 T9? how does this stack up to the model for 245 T9 4 piece and 245 T9 2 piece + other random stuff? I tried to find your models again back on Spriest.com but was having trouble finding what I was looking for.

Basically wondering if, until 258 T9 pieces become available is better to.

1. Keep two piece T8 in some way or form (Head + something) and combine other piece of 245/258?

2. Go 4 piece 245 and upgrade into any 258 that comes along?

3. Do two piece 245 and upgrade into any 258 that comes along?

#18 Horky

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 06:31 PM

What do you get when you run it with my current BiS set (which does include the Firestorm Ring)?

Changing the race between Undead and Night-Elf shouldn't change much. As you said, it should just change the base stats. I chose Night-Elf as the default rather than Undead because....I play one. Both would have been good choices however.


Oh absolutely, the race change was just to show why I was getting higher numbers on my set in the spreadsheet. The base stats were enough to make a dps difference in the sets.

Running your new Firestorm BiS set, tier and no tier, using everything from before, as Undead and with Flare of the Heavens, the results look like this:

8450 12.6% Tierfirestorm_T9_13_00_58_258
8415 12.6% Horkytier_T9_13_00_58_258
8414 12.6% Althor_T9_13_00_58_258
8385 12.5% 2pc_T9_13_00_58_258
8282 12.4% Notier_T9_13_00_58_258
8259 12.4% Notierfirestorm_T9_13_00_58_258
8214 12.3% Tier245_T9_13_00_58_258


It keeps coming up 35 dps above everything else. Very interesting.

I'm going to get the latest Simcraft and add the 3.2.2 equivalence points to the spreadsheet and then see how things come out of the blender.

#19 Althor

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Posted 18 September 2009 - 05:26 AM

Running your new Firestorm BiS set, tier and no tier, using everything from before, as Undead and with Flare of the Heavens, the results look like this:

<snip>

It keeps coming up 35 dps above everything else. Very interesting.


When I run the following:

#!simcraft
Globals_T9.simcraft

optimal_raid=1

Priest_T9_13_00_58_258.simcraft
Priest_T9_13_00_58_258.simcraft name=Priest_T9_13_00_58_258_foth race=undead trinket2=flare_of_the_heavens,stats=120crit,equip=onspellhit_850sp_10%_10dur_45cd

I get the following:


SimulationCraft for World of Warcraft build 3.2.0 ( iterations=10000, max_time=300, optimal_raid=1, smooth_rng=0 )

DPS Ranking:
  16782 100.0%  Raid
   8418  50.1%  Priest_T9_13_00_58_258
   8378  49.9%  Priest_T9_13_00_58_258_foth

Player: Priest_T9_13_00_58_258 night_elf priest shadow 80
  DPS: 8417.5  Error=2.8  Range=540  DPR=39.7  RPS=212.1/210.9  (mana)
  Origin: http://profiler.wowhead.com/?profile=13043848
  Core Stats:  strength=299|50(10)  agility=317|66(10)  stamina=1777|1305(1189)  intellect=1607|1357(1183)  spirit=883|679(498)  health=24090|19830  mana=27688|23938
  Spell Stats:  power=3928|3282(3215)  hit=11.28%|11.28%(296)  crit=33.16%|26.66%(793)  penetration=0|0(0)  haste=24.25%|14.88%(488)  mp5=0|0
  Attack Stats  power=1163|40(0)  hit=9.03%|9.03%(296)  crit=31.54%|21.72%(793)  expertise=0.00|0.00(0)  penetration=0.00%|0.00%(0)  haste=42.00%|14.88%(488)
  Defense Stats:  armor=6341|2301(2169)  blockv=150|25(0)  defense=0|0(0)  miss=1.70%|1.70%  dodge=0.00%|0.00%(0)  parry=0.00%|0.00%(0)  block=0.00%|0.00%(0) crit=13.90%|13.90%
  Glyphs: mind_flay/shadow_word_pain/shadow/fortitude/fading/levitate
  Actions:
    devouring_plague       Count= 12.0|25.6sec  DPE= 30196|14%  DPET= 23202  DPR=  33.3  pDPS=1209  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2511  Crit= 3879| 4063|41.5%  TickCount=93  Tick=2302  CritTick=4809|5059|47.5%
    mind_blast             Count= 34.2| 8.8sec  DPE=  7598|10%  DPET=  6072  DPR=  12.9  pDPS= 868  Miss=0.0%  Hit=5081  Crit=10620|11369|45.4%
    mind_flay              Count= 85.1| 3.5sec  DPE= 12441|42%  DPET=  4864  DPR=  45.4  pDPS=3532  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=254  Tick=2690  CritTick=5624|6128|50.3%
    reign_of_the_unliving  Count= 52.8|11.1sec  DPE=  2608| 5%  DPET=     1  DPR=   0.0  pDPS= 459  Miss=2.7%  Hit=2188  Crit= 3379| 3578|40.2%
    shadow_word_pain       Count=  1.0| 0.0sec  DPE=243340|10%  DPET=179286  DPR= 304.9  pDPS= 812  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=98  Tick=1642  CritTick=3434|3706|47.2%
    vampiric_touch         Count= 14.4|21.4sec  DPE= 28181|16%  DPET= 22528  DPR=  48.6  pDPS=1352  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=97  Tick=2742  CritTick=5724|6051|47.6%
   shadow_fiend  (DPS=263.1)
    melee                  Count= 26.0| 7.8sec  DPE=  2145| 2%  DPET=  1768  DPR=   0.0  pDPS= 186  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2104  Crit= 4208| 4429|8.2%  Glance=1578|24.0%
  Constant Buffs: arcane_brilliance/blessing_of_kings/blessing_of_might/blessing_of_wisdom/divine_spirit/fortitude
  Constant Buffs: inner_fire/inner_fire_armor/mark_of_the_wild/replenishment/shadow_form
  Dynamic Buffs:
    bloodlust             : start=1.0   refresh=0.0    interval=  0.0|0.0    uptime=13%
    glyph_of_shadow       : start=1.3   refresh=147.1  interval=125.2|2.0    uptime=99%  benefit=99%
    improved_spirit_tap   : start=12.7  refresh=2.8    interval= 23.1|18.7   uptime=41%
    lightweave_embroidery : start=5.0   refresh=0.0    interval= 61.2|61.2   uptime=25%  trigger=35%
    shadow_weaving        : start=1.0   refresh=413.0  interval=  0.0|0.7    uptime=100%  benefit=100%
  Procs:
    357.6 |   1.08sec : judgement_of_wisdom
     52.8 |  11.12sec : reign_of_the_unliving
  Gains:
     4651.3 : blessing_of_wisdom      (overflow=28.9%)
    27688.0 : initial_mana          
    22175.1 : judgement_of_wisdom     (overflow=19.7%)
    12016.7 : replenishment           (overflow=27.5%)
     6557.6 : shadow_fiend            (overflow=81.8%)
    17824.3 : spirit_intellect_regen  (overflow=24.9%)

Player: Priest_T9_13_00_58_258_foth undead priest shadow 80
  DPS: 8378.2  Error=2.7  Range=506  DPR=39.5  RPS=212.2/210.9  (mana)
  Origin: http://profiler.wowhead.com/?profile=13043848
  Core Stats:  strength=302|52(10)  agility=309|59(10)  stamina=1779|1307(1189)  intellect=1605|1355(1183)  spirit=889|684(498)  health=24120|19850  mana=27658|23908
  Spell Stats:  power=3778|3133(3065)  hit=11.28%|11.28%(296)  crit=35.76%|29.26%(913)  penetration=0|0(0)  haste=24.25%|14.88%(488)  mp5=0|0
  Attack Stats  power=1166|42(0)  hit=9.03%|9.03%(296)  crit=34.00%|24.20%(913)  expertise=0.00|0.00(0)  penetration=0.00%|0.00%(0)  haste=42.00%|14.88%(488)
  Defense Stats:  armor=6325|2287(2169)  blockv=151|26(0)  defense=0|0(0)  miss=0.00%|0.00%  dodge=0.00%|0.00%(0)  parry=0.00%|0.00%(0)  block=0.00%|0.00%(0) crit=13.90%|13.90%
  Glyphs: mind_flay/shadow_word_pain/shadow/fortitude/fading/levitate
  Actions:
    devouring_plague       Count= 12.0|25.6sec  DPE= 30869|15%  DPET= 23720  DPR=  34.0  pDPS=1237  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2526  Crit= 3902| 4623|44.3%  TickCount=93  Tick=2311  CritTick=4826|5733|50.1%
    mind_blast             Count= 34.3| 8.8sec  DPE=  7749|11%  DPET=  6192  DPR=  13.1  pDPS= 886  Miss=0.0%  Hit=5088  Crit=10638|12576|47.9%
    mind_flay              Count= 85.1| 3.5sec  DPE= 12720|43%  DPET=  4973  DPR=  46.4  pDPS=3611  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=254  Tick=2700  CritTick=5648|6955|52.9%
    reign_of_the_unliving  Count= 27.1|10.8sec  DPE=  2790| 3%  DPET=     1  DPR=   0.0  pDPS= 252  Miss=2.8%  Hit=2316  Crit= 3578| 3578|42.6%
    shadow_word_pain       Count=  1.0| 0.0sec  DPE=249274|10%  DPET=183658  DPR= 312.4  pDPS= 831  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=98  Tick=1651  CritTick=3453|4154|49.8%
    vampiric_touch         Count= 14.4|21.4sec  DPE= 28647|16%  DPET= 22901  DPR=  49.4  pDPS=1374  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=97  Tick=2740  CritTick=5717|6941|50.1%
   shadow_fiend  (DPS=264.3)
    melee                  Count= 26.0| 7.8sec  DPE=  2155| 2%  DPET=  1776  DPR=   0.0  pDPS= 187  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2115  Crit= 4233| 5096|8.2%  Glance=1586|24.0%
  Constant Buffs: arcane_brilliance/blessing_of_kings/blessing_of_might/blessing_of_wisdom/divine_spirit/fortitude
  Constant Buffs: inner_fire/inner_fire_armor/mark_of_the_wild/replenishment/shadow_form
  Dynamic Buffs:
    bloodlust             : start=1.0   refresh=0.0    interval=  0.0|0.0    uptime=13%
    flare_of_the_heavens  : start=6.3   refresh=0.0    interval= 49.8|49.8   uptime=21%  trigger=10%
    glyph_of_shadow       : start=1.2   refresh=155.0  interval=127.9|1.9    uptime=99%  benefit=99%
    improved_spirit_tap   : start=13.3  refresh=3.1    interval= 22.2|17.8   uptime=43%
    lightweave_embroidery : start=5.0   refresh=0.0    interval= 61.2|61.2   uptime=25%  trigger=35%
    shadow_weaving        : start=1.0   refresh=413.0  interval=  0.0|0.7    uptime=100%  benefit=100%
  Procs:
    341.2 |   1.08sec : judgement_of_wisdom
     27.1 |  10.83sec : reign_of_the_unliving
  Gains:
     4705.9 : blessing_of_wisdom      (overflow=28.0%)
    27658.0 : initial_mana          
    21358.7 : judgement_of_wisdom     (overflow=19.0%)
    12140.1 : replenishment           (overflow=26.7%)
     6630.0 : shadow_fiend            (overflow=81.6%)
    18380.7 : spirit_intellect_regen  (overflow=24.0%)

Auras and De-Buffs:
  Constant: abominations_might/battle_shout/bleeding/blood_frenzy/crypt_fever/curse_of_elements/earth_and_moon
  Constant: elemental_oath/expose_armor/faerie_fire/ferocious_inspiration/flametongue_totem/heart_of_the_crusader
  Constant: hunters_mark/improved_faerie_fire/improved_moonkin/improved_scorch/improved_shadow_bolt/infected_wounds
  Constant: insect_swarm/judgement_of_wisdom/judgements_of_the_just/leader_of_the_pack/mana_spring_totem/mangle
  Constant: master_poisoner/misery/moonkin/poisoned/rampage/sanctified_retribution/savage_combat/strength_of_earth
  Constant: sunder_armor/swift_retribution/thunder_clap/totem_of_wrath/totem_of_wrath_debuff/trauma/trueshot
  Constant: unleashed_rage/windfury_totem/winters_chill/wrath_of_air
  Dynamic:

Waiting:
    All players active 100% of the time.

Baseline Performance:
  TotalEvents   = 30587523
  MaxEventQueue = 27
  TargetHealth  = 5031946
  SimSeconds    = 3000536
  CpuSeconds    = 30.794
  SpeedUp       = 97439

RNG global Actual/Expected Roll=0.999741 Range=1.000000 Gauss=1.000000



i.e. Night-Elf 2*Reign of the Unliving (245 + 258 ones) is out-performing Undead Flare of the Heavens + 258 RotU by 40 DPS.

I'm not seeing that 8450 DPS you got. Can you please post the full profile?

Priest_T9_13_00_58_258.simcraft is:

#!./simcraft 

priest=Priest_T9_13_00_58_258
origin=http://profiler.wowhead.com/?profile=13043848
level=80
race=night_elf
talents=http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=5&tal=0503203000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000325023051223010323152301351
glyphs=mind_flay/shadow_word_pain/shadow/fortitude/fading/levitate
actions=flask,type=frost_wyrm
actions+=/food,type=fish_feast
actions+=/fortitude
actions+=/divine_spirit
actions+=/inner_fire
actions+=/shadow_form
actions+=/snapshot_stats
actions+=/wild_magic_potion
actions+=/shadow_fiend
actions+=/shadow_word_pain,shadow_weaving_wait=1
actions+=/vampiric_touch
actions+=/devouring_plague
actions+=/mind_blast
actions+=/vampiric_embrace
actions+=/mind_flay
actions+=/shadow_word_death,moving=1
actions+=/dispersion
head=velens_cowl_of_triumph,stats=282armor_86crit_151sp_116sta_116int_94spi,gems=chaotic_skyflare_12sp_10spi_9sp,enchant=30sp_20crit
neck=wail_of_the_valkyr,stats=57crit_43haste_91sp_65sta_65int,gems=10crit_12sp_5sp
shoulders=velens_mantle_of_triumph,stats=260armor_68crit_124sp_86sta_86int_76spi,gems=10crit_12sp_5sp,enchant=24sp_15crit
chest=velens_raiments_of_triumph,stats=347armor_94haste_160sp_116sta_116int_94spi,gems=23sp_23sp,enchant=10str_10agi_10sta_10int_10spi
waist=cord_of_biting_cold,stats=195armor_58hit_73crit_114sp_86sta_86int,gems=12sp_10spi_23sp_23sp_7sp
legs=velens_pants_of_triumph,stats=303armor_102hit_86haste_160sp_116sta_116int,gems=23sp_23sp,enchant=50sp_20spi
feet=boots_of_the_mourning_widow,stats=238armor_68haste_124sp_86sta_86int_76spi,gems=23sp_23sp,enchant=12crit_12hit
wrists=bejeweled_wizards_bracers,stats=145armor_42crit_50haste_80sp_58sta_58int,gems=23sp,enchant=30sp
hands=velens_handwraps_of_triumph,stats=217armor_68hit_76crit_124sp_86sta_86int,gems=10crit_12sp_5sp,enchant=28sp
finger1=band_of_deplorable_violence,stats=65sta_50spi_65int_91sp_53crit,gems=12sp_10crit_5sp,enchant=23sp
finger2=firestorm_ring,stats=56hit_33crit_80sp_54sta_59int,gems=23sp_5sp,enchant=23sp
trinket1=reign_of_the_unliving,stats=168sp,equip=onspelldirectcrit_2117fire_3stack_2.0cd
trinket2=reign_of_the_unliving,stats=150sp,equip=onspelldirectcrit_1882fire_3stack_2.0cd
back=jainas_radiance,stats=74sta_74int_105sp_65crit_57haste_182armor,gems=23sp_5sp,enchant=lightweave_embroidery
main_hand=miserys_end,stats=66sta_66int_701sp_44crit_66haste,gems=0sp,enchant=63sp,weapon=mace_1.80speed_125.3dps
off_hand=chalice_of_searing_light,stats=57crit_100sp_65sta_65int_57spi
ranged=rod_of_imprisoned_souls,stats=31crit_24haste_50sp_40sta_29int
# Gear Summary
# gear_strength=10
# gear_agility=10
# gear_stamina=1189
# gear_intellect=1183
# gear_spirit=498
# gear_spell_power=3215
# gear_hit_rating=296
# gear_crit_rating=793
# gear_haste_rating=488
# gear_armor=2169
# meta_gem=chaotic_skyflare
# tier9_2pc_caster=1
# tier9_4pc_caster=1
# back=jainas_radiance,enchant=lightweave_embroidery
# main_hand=miserys_end,weapon=mace_1.80speed_125.3dps


#20 tedv

tedv

    Observation: I am awesome

  • Allied Members
  • 1,796 posts

Posted 18 September 2009 - 07:25 PM

I've been thinking about this gearing problem as well. Gearing shadow is certainly harder than holy, where you can just take the highest ilvl pieces. For the purpose of analysis, I think it's reasonable to consider all 258 ilvl except set pieces, of which 245 is the reasonable limit. If you happen to get the 258 versions, so much for the better, but you're on your own to figure out how to use it. Hint: Take set pieces with more item points allocated to them (ie. not shoulders and gloves).

The general gearing heuristic is still:

No hit or spirit > Gear with hit > Gear with Spirit > Hit and Spirit

Given that we need some gear with hit, however, it makes sense to choose them wisely. First, you want to use any piece with hit rating that's almost best in slot even ignoring the hit. There are:

Belt: (vs. )
Offhand: (vs. )

Together, they account for 115 hit rating, leaving 170 to get from other slots.

Next, because our T9 set bonuses are good, we should consider any piece that's well itemized if you actually need hit. There are two such pieces:

Gloves: (vs. Gloves of the Lifeless Touch)
Legs: (vs. )

The legs are clearly worth using for the hit rating alone, given their alternative has spirit. The gloves are worth using as a second piece when account for the set bonus.

After including these four pieces, you will be at 264 hit rating. To round out the remaining 25 hit rating, you can use some combination of these three options:

A) Use Veiled Ametrine in a few sockets.
B) Use a random cloak / boots / ring with hit and no spirit in some slot you've been unable to upgrade.
C) Get the 258 ilvl version of T9 gloves and legs.

Icewalker enchant on your boots is not an option. You should be using Tuskarr's Vitality.

For the helm slot, the 245 T9 healing helm is only minutely better than the 226 T8 helm. And you wouldn't spend a regalia on the 258 T9 healing helm until you've already upgraded your better itemized gloves and legs. So pragmatically I recommend continuing to use the T8 helm until Icecrown.

The neck, bracer, trinket, main hand, and wand choices are all obvious. For rings, some combination of Lurid Manifestation, Circle of the Darkmender, and will be fine, drop dependent. For boots, take . The only remaining choices are what to use for shoulders and chest. In other words, if you want 2T8, 2T9, or best in slot non-set pieces.

Theorycrafting suggests that 4T9 is not as good as 2T8, but close. If Devouring Plague is 13% of our damage including the bonus, the set bonus is roughly a 1.7% damage increase. Mind Flay being around 35% of our damage at a 35% crit rate means that a 40% crit rate will provide 1.3% increase in damage (35 * 5/135). So switching out 2T8 for 4T9 will cost you around 30 DPS if you were doing 6000 DPS. This loss is not insurmountable, but given that you were already using the T8 helm, it might be worth keeping the T8 shoulders and using something like Merlin's Robe instead of four pieces of T9. The loot list on shadowpriest.com suggests that 226 T8 shoulders and Merlin's Robes are notably superior to 245 T9 shoulders and chest, and only slightly worse than having both 258 T9 shoulders and chest to complete your four piece bonus.

With that in mind, I suggest this list as the optimal item set that someone could conceivably assemble before Icecrown, barring dictatorial control of the loot council. I'm also ignoring the tribute cloaks. We know they are good. If you get one, grats to you.

Helm:
Neck:
Shoulders:
Cloak:
Chest:
Bracers:
Gloves:
Belt:
Legs:
Boots:
Ring: Lurid Manifestation (258)
Ring: Circle of the Darkmender (258)
Trinket: Reign of the Dead (258)
Trinket:
Main Hand: Suffering's End (258)
Off Hand:
Wand:

Note that and are also options instead of the cloak for finishing off the hit rating. In that case, is the best non-tribute cloak.

Of course, that's all theorycrafting. We should probably simulate this set as well.




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