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Team Robot Simulator and Gear Comparison Tool


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#41 revulva

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 05:08 PM

Simulator doesn't work with russian realms...
EU Хедушка Гордунни won't work


Is that realm and character name? Or is that just the realm name? Sorry, my russian is rusty...

#42 Yellowsix

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 06:40 PM

Simulator doesn't work with russian realms...
EU Хедушка Гордунни won't work


edit: I had realm and character backwards -- I was able to load your character from the armory. What doesn't work for you? Is it failing when trying to load your character? What error message does it give you?

edit: I posted a small update to the site that should force the silverlight plugin to use english as its language setting, and hopefully avoid issues that may arise due to the settings on a particular user's computer. Please let me know if you are still experiencing problems.

#43 prime311

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 04:03 PM

Unfortunately the armory does not provide sufficient data for socket bonuses. I can tell what socket bonuses you have active when you load your particular character, but I cannot determine the socket bonuses for random item XYZ from the armory. It's a strange omission on the armory's part. Thus, I just ignore socket bonuses entirely. It doesn't significantly impact DPS though, so coming up with some way to build up a database of socket bonuses is a pretty low priority.


Not to belabor the point, but it would be really helpful to have this. For example if I have a Yellow socket that offers a +6 Strength socket bonus will I get more DPS from using a 20 Str gem or using a 10 Str/10 Crit gem. Of course I can manually determine this based on generic stat weights for the spec, but if I'm comparing different specs, as I do quite a bit, that ends up being a fair amount of manual effort involved. And since the sim results will vary each time you can't really get a definitive answer that way. Sorry if I sound like I'm being picky, I really love the site, I'm just saying that there is definitely some usefulness here should you get an opportunity to develop this piece. Perhaps it would be enough to adjust the displayed DPS based on the current simulation when you change anything rather then rerunning the sim everytime?

#44 Yellowsix

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 06:29 PM

I'll give some more thought to the socket bonus issue... the problem is one of maintainability: I want to rely on the armory for item information as much as possible, which should keep the simulator up to date without requiring constant maintenance on my part.

One idea for a quick solution might be to show somewhere on the UI what kind of socket bonus you would need for it to be worthwhile to match it instead of just using +20str gems, or, allow users to manually specify what the socket bonus is.

Once I roll out this next update I'll see what I can do, because yes I agree, it would be nice to somehow factor in socket bonuses.

(In general though, the difference in DPS between matching a bonus and just using a BiS gem is so small, that you don't have to worry about it when gearing your character -- it would just be nice to add that extra level of polish to the UI.)

#45 jacaregorgo

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 12:35 PM

I tried out your character, but you were in tank gear, so I was unable to determine why it thought the PvP helmet should be ranked so highly.

Somebody else mentioned these "40k" auto-attacks... I'm pretty sure that it's a display error somehow, because someone else was getting item tooltips with extra zeroes on the end for some stats. What culture settings do you have on your computer? e.g. mine is en-US for english-United States. I'm going to try and test various cultures this weekend.

It is a complex simulator... I'm curious as to what leads you to believe that it is not? It models every DPS-relevant DK ability, talent, trinket proc, etc. with as accurate information as I could locate. The only fundamental difference between ours and others that I have seen, is that it is web-based and has a "point-and-click" user interface on top of it.

By default it runs 100 5-minute fight simulations, which isn't quite enough to get the same result every time (you can see the margin of error next to the DPS result). It seemed like a good trade-off between speed and accuracy. We plan to expose those settings though, so that people can run longer simulations if they desire.


Hi Yellow,

that was me, i mentioned it in your Robot Forum. I use an enGB WoW and culture settings are geman. Maybe it's really a similiar prob to Allcom's since i remember he used to be on my server so he could have similiar settings.

greets

#46 prime311

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Posted 30 October 2009 - 04:19 PM

Got another one for you. I noticed Sparkling Onyxia Hide Pendant isn't available in the gear selector. Maybe because its not a Str neck?

#47 Hugsie

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Posted 30 October 2009 - 05:51 PM

To deal with the haste issue (and potentially others related to fight length), why not allow users to randomize fight length within a certain range? I think this would create a more realistic model because real fights have reasonable windows of possible length but can never be predicted down to the last second.

This would also produce the novel result of allowing players to get an average of their dps performance across fights of several different lengths, which is arguably more useful than just modeling for a single fight duration.

Really neat app, it's young but already pretty useful in its current state. =)

#48 Yellowsix

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Posted 30 October 2009 - 08:24 PM

I'll add that missing item prime311.

I like the idea of randomizing the length of the fight within a specified range. It wouldn't even have to be that large of a range to get rid of most "weird" behavior due to particular values of haste, e.g. 4-6 minute fights ought to do it.

I'll put a UI that exposes these options in the next update. I have made several other updates and bug fixes that I am almost done testing, so I'll try to roll this into it.

#49 Deathwarp

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Posted 31 October 2009 - 06:15 PM

I really like the idea of a web based simulator, mainly because i play on a MAC and using Mr. Robot i don't need to boot up another computer just to run some sims ;)

Good job, keep it up ;)

And a suggestion, i couldn't be ar*ed to read the whole topic, but you could add an option to load the secondary spec/glyphs.. Or am I just blind and the option is there?

#50 Dynami

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 03:34 PM

I ran a sim on Mr. Robot with my gear and quickly realized that my Gargoyle is critting when Gargoyle Strike can't crit.

#51 Yellowsix

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 08:30 PM

I ran a sim on Mr. Robot with my gear and quickly realized that my Gargoyle is critting when Gargoyle Strike can't crit.


Yes -- I have fixed this in the beta version, which I will be posting to the main version in the near future. I took a short break from doing updates because the website was entered into a competition, but the competition is over now, so regular updates will resume later this week.

#52 phete

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Posted 04 December 2009 - 10:51 AM

Hi there, really nice sim I must say :) (and being a .net/silverlight-developer myself I'm happy to see good uses of it).
I found one way for getting socket bonuses from items though.
Take for example the xml you get from wowhead.com on let's say Dual-blade Butcher (to get xml back you just append &xml to the end of the url).
In the node "jsonEquip" there's an entry with the key "socketbonus" and the value is an enchantId.
Now to the tricky part. You basically have to save that huge table of id's/values as some kind of dictionary and parse it in some clever way, or find some css-selector-like library for silverlight and do it on the fly.

Would be really nice to get socket bonuses even though I see how much work it would be to get it working :)

#53 Yellowsix

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 11:45 PM

That's pretty interesting phete -- I might give that a shot. Thanks for the tip. Looking at the xml, it seems like the thing to do would be to find e.g. "Socket Bonus: +6 Strength" in the htmlTooltip section, then map that to the ID 3357. Then run through my item lists and tack the socket bonus ID onto each item.

A sidenote: I'll be updating the simulator this weekend with 3.3 DK information, a few new features, updated gear lists, and updated estimated DPS values for items.

#54 phete

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 10:58 AM

That's pretty interesting phete -- I might give that a shot. Thanks for the tip. Looking at the xml, it seems like the thing to do would be to find e.g. "Socket Bonus: +6 Strength" in the htmlTooltip section, then map that to the ID 3357. Then run through my item lists and tack the socket bonus ID onto each item.

A sidenote: I'll be updating the simulator this weekend with 3.3 DK information, a few new features, updated gear lists, and updated estimated DPS values for items.


yea that enchantid info is probably nothing wowhead etc feels nessecary to open up an api for :) so parsing seems like the only option

#55 Yellowsix

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 10:50 AM

I have made some general updates to the Team Robot Simulator, and updated the DK module with the 3.3 changes. You can read the complete change log at:

WoW Simulator Change Log

I wanted to get the 3.3. changes in sooner, so a few features didn't make it in yet: most notably the socket bonuses need further testing, and will be in the next update.

A few of the features were direct responses to requests made here at EJ, such as the new Settings section that allows you to change the fight duration, number of runs, and adds an option to randomize the fight durations (only by a couple of seconds -- just enough to prevent haste from doing weird things at particular fight lengths). This option is turned off by default.

As always, take the estimated DPS/item rankings with a grain of salt: they are quick approximations based on a default talent/glyph setup. Always remember to press Simulate and run an actual simulation with your gear and build to get a more accurate result if the item lists look a little out of order.

#56 Gort

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 08:03 PM

I give. I've been staring and staring and I realise I've probably missed it three times, but... Is there a button/section to output individual stat weights?

#57 revulva

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 06:15 PM

No, there is not currently an option to output stat weights.

We have contemplated adding that feature to support some in-game mods that use stat weights, but, it is not high on the priority list. Finishing additional classes is our highest priority at the moment.

#58 Yellowsix

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 05:56 PM

If stat weights are something that people would like sooner rather than later, if someone wanted to give me the details of how that works, it would speed things along. I only know the general concept of stat weights (determine an equivalence for each stat to AP or something to that effect). If someone wanted to gather up the details of what I would need to output for mods that use stat weights and post it or PM me, I could probably implement it fairly quickly. Otherwise, it'll have to wait until I have time to research it myself.

Right now I am working on some of the other classes, and getting socket bonuses ironed out. I'm also comparing the output of the DK simulator to some recent combat logs of our fights, and making some adjustments to improve the simulator's accuracy.

#59 Darkside

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 06:02 PM

From what I understand the calculation for stat weights works something like this: Each stat is increased by a set amount (probably 10 or so) and then the simulations are run again. The DPS gain is recorded and divided by 10. From there, the stats are normalized (typically to attack power) and reported to the user.

There is probably a lot small tweaks you could make to the process; things like iterating over different stat increases (10, 20, 30 etc.) subtracting stats instead of adding them and so forth. It takes a fairly substantial amount of computing power and time to produce accurate stat weights, but they are probably the most useful part of any simulator.

ginger booty get on with yo bad self


#60 revulva

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 06:09 PM

It takes a fairly substantial amount of computing power and time to produce accurate stat weights, but they are probably the most useful part of any simulator.


Stat weights have typically been the most useful part of simulators because it is cumbersome to enter all of the necessary information about your character in order to get the desired simulator output. Once you enter all that data, the simulator gives you stat weights that you can plug in to a simple in-game mod that can then give you fast estimates on whether items are upgrades or not.

Stat weights are only truly accurate for the exact set of conditions that you create them with. As soon as you change one piece of gear, those weights need to be recalculated for true accuracy.

On the Team Robot site, the estimates for the DPS on items are all pre-calculated over the full range of possible stat values. As soon as you change an item, all the estimates update automatically*. So, you really don't need to output any stat weights when using this simulator. The only reason you would need them is to interface with some of the existing in-game mods. We would like to support these mods eventually.

*We have worked hard to find a point at which the site can still run fairly quickly and also give reasonably good DPS estimates. In 98% of cases, the relative value of the items is correct, but there is still an item or two that will show up in the "wrong" order. You can always hit the simulate button to find out manually if an item is better or not. It would take an extreme amount of data points to achieve 100% accuracy over the full range of possible configurations, thus slowing the response of the site dramatically.




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