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SimulationCraft for Shamans


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#41 Aten

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 11:05 AM

i notice that on the t11 elemental profile this

glyphs=lava_burst/lightning_bolt/flame_shock/lightning_bolt/healing_stream_totem/ghost_wolf

LB is duplicated

i was also very surpised by the D/D post, and i cant stop thinking to myself, there must be something wrong with the SIM, cause even on patchwerk tests this figures seem way to high.

Also i couldnt see Fulmination on the damage pie

#42 Zimeron

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 04:30 PM

i notice that on the t11 elemental profile this LB is duplicated

i was also very surpised by the D/D post, and i cant stop thinking to myself, there must be something wrong with the SIM, cause even on patchwerk tests this figures seem way to high.

Also i couldnt see Fulmination on the damage pie


We fixed the typo so Glyph of Lightning Shield is used instead of Lightning Bolt x2. The damage from Fulmination was showing up as Lightning Shield on the report,it has been renamed to Fulmination in the SVN. Also, if something appears to be wrong in the sim, please point to specific things with reasoning/proof behind why they are wrong. Saying that the damage appears to be to high doesn't help us improve the sim.

#43 Aten

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 06:37 PM

It wont happen again.

Does the Sim, takes in consideration that Unleash Flame, for Elemental shamans, buffs LvB, FS DD, FS DoT and FN, and that is also affected by Elemental Fury, because its a fire spell.

On the file, sc_shaman.cpp, it says Unleash Elements "...for elemental is a downgrade in dps ...", whats the reason behind that note?

#44 maronics

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 09:44 AM

Does SimCraft model Flametongue weapon?

Kinda necessary to know, because Armory just counts it to your spellpower if you logout with Flametongue on your weapon, which would result in double dipping.

#45 dedmonwakeen

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 01:17 PM

Does SimCraft model Flametongue weapon?

Kinda necessary to know, because Armory just counts it to your spellpower if you logout with Flametongue on your weapon, which would result in double dipping.


When SimC downloads your character it does not look at the paper-doll "summaries". Instead, it grabs all your equipped items, talents, and glyphs. Only permanent enchants are considered because temporary ones are applied during player initialization inside the sim.

#46 dedmonwakeen

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 12:15 AM

Where does one modify the rotation settings? I'm trying to look at how the shock use affects DPS, as we've always assumed that FS>ES9 due to rotation mechanics as opposed to max dps


After importing your character you will see a number of lines starting with "actions+=/". Modify these as you see fit.

#47 Kitteh

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 12:50 PM

After importing your character you will see a number of lines starting with "actions+=/". Modify these as you see fit.


If i'm reading it right this section is the priority:

actions+=/lightning_bolt,if=buff.maelstrom_weapon.stack=5&buff.maelstrom_weapon.react
actions+=/searing_totem
actions+=/lava_lash
actions+=/lightning_bolt,if=buff.maelstrom_weapon.stack=4&buff.maelstrom_weapon.react
actions+=/unleash_elements
actions+=/flame_shock,if=!ticking
actions+=/earth_shock
actions+=/stormstrike
actions+=/spirit_wolf
actions+=/fire_nova
actions+=/lightning_bolt,if=buff.maelstrom_weapon.stack>1&buff.maelstrom_weapon.react
actions+=/lava_burst,if=dot.flame_shock.remains>cast_time+0.1

Which would be:

LB on a 5 stack
LL
LB on a 4 stack
UE
FS if it's not up
ES
SS
FS (spirit wolf is travelform ;))
FN (i'd guess it knows we drop searing totem)

The last 2 seem a little "off" as we tend not to cast a low maelstrom LB and LvB is generally accepted as being a DPS loss. Would it be safe to assume one could remove these without really effecting figures? How are they effecting the model if not?

Very, very good tool otherwise.
We can freely modify this at will? Where are these settings pulled from (so I can go save my "current" setup, I dont see a "save sim settings" button so I guess they are in a text file?).

If you have further questions, feel free to raise them, but keep in mind when so doing that I'm right, you're wrong, and that you're annoying me.

:keke:

#48 Zimeron

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 02:55 PM

The last 2 seem a little "off" as we tend not to cast a low maelstrom LB and LvB is generally accepted as being a DPS loss. Would it be safe to assume one could remove these without really effecting figures? How are they effecting the model if not?

Very, very good tool otherwise.
We can freely modify this at will? Where are these settings pulled from (so I can go save my "current" setup, I dont see a "save sim settings" button so I guess they are in a text file?).

The default actions we have are giving us the most dps in the simulator. Converting to the accepted EnhSim priority results in a dps loss, roughly 2k in 377. Our Shaman developer has been over the mechanics quite a lot and is fairly confident in the results, but extra sets of eyes are always welcome.

Where you see the actions in the GUI you can modify them as you see fit. The profile is automatically saved in the same directory as SimulationCraft.exe as simc_gui.simc.

#49 Rouncer

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 04:30 PM

When I run your priority setup in EnhSim it results in about a 1.5k dps loss. Guessing one of the sims is wrong but your money is as good as mine about which one.

#50 dedmonwakeen

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 08:22 PM

We can freely modify this at will? Where are these settings pulled from (so I can go save my "current" setup, I dont see a "save sim settings" button so I guess they are in a text file?).


The gui is merely a glorified front-end to a parm-value command line interface.

Option toggles are evaluated first, followed by text in Simulate tab, followed by text in Overrides tab, followed by text on the command line.

When the tool encounters something other than parm=value it assumes that the string is a file name containing more parm=value pairs. This means that after importing, you could cut-and-paste the wall of text to a file using your favorite editor. Once this is done, no need to import, just refer to that file on the cmd-line. You can make changes to the actions as you see fit.

Also: Hitting the "<" or ">" buttons will cycle through previous Imports for quick experiments. Similarly, hitting the "Up" and "Down" arrows while the command line has focus will cycle through previous texts. (similar to unix shell behavior)

#51 Zimeron

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 02:21 PM

When I run your priority setup in EnhSim it results in about a 1.5k dps loss. Guessing one of the sims is wrong but your money is as good as mine about which one.


From a commit this morning (not released yet):

Fix a pretty massive bug with Lava Burst. Now hard casting it properly resets swing timers, instead of pushing them into the future. This change removes hard casting of Lava Bursts from the melee/melee profile, as they result in a dps loss. With a caster mainhand, hard casting lava bursts still remains a dps upgrade.

There goes one squashed bug to get us closer together. Is it still a DPS loss in EnhSim to hard cast LvB even with the extra spell power from a caster MH?

#52 Rouncer

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 04:03 PM

EnhSim isn't modeling the 10% boost yet so those results fit with what I am getting from EnhSim, ie that it could easily be a dps increase to hard cast lava burst as the lowest option on the priority list when running FT/FT with a caster mainhand. Only thing you might want to test out in your action priority list for both WF/FT and FT/FT is that EnhSim is showing that making sure to consume UE with a FS is more overall dps then just prioritizing refreshing FS based on remaining dot duration.

DMC is showing in the CharDev for WF/FT but the item list still shows H. Essence and Lightning Strike doesn't show on the damage breakdown list. DMC for WF/FT is at least a 450 dps upgrade over H Essence so that should help with the spread between them.

Still really not happy to see such a small dps difference between the two conditions. Part of that is that Crul's aren't very well itemized for us while Andoros isn't too shabby since it has mastery on it but even so they are just way too close in value for my liking.

Would you mind updating those things for the sample output, I want to link to it in Cochice's thread over on the DD forums to show that their fix to the caster weapon issue really just wasn't enough.

#53 Zimeron

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 05:41 PM

Would you mind updating those things for the sample output, I want to link to it in Cochice's thread over on the DD forums to show that their fix to the caster weapon issue really just wasn't enough.


The profiles were changed recently in SVN, the release just hasn't caught up yet. We should have a new release with the LvB fix and the new profiles out "soon".

Here's the latest output using the new gear setups: Simulationcraft Results

#54 Rouncer

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 07:16 PM

The profiles were changed recently in SVN, the release just hasn't caught up yet. We should have a new release with the LvB fix and the new profiles out "soon".

Here's the latest output using the new gear setups: Simulationcraft Results


Wow, so their "fix" really just leveled the playing field. Thanks for linking that. How did FT/FT with the caster mainhand do once you incorporated those fixes?

#55 Zimeron

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 08:11 PM

Does that fix involve fixing the uptimes section? We need to know the FS uptime for elemental to see if the rotation logic we're changing works.


Reporting has been quite volatile lately as we are making back end changes. FS uptime and various other outputs should be fixed in the next release, which is the only thing preventing us from releasing a new build currently.

[e] Unless you're referring to how FS is no longer listed under the Uptime section, which has moved to Up% in the damage report.

#56 Warsur

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 07:30 PM

Following Bink's guidelines at Totemspot, I've been trying to prioritize FS cast adding this option (other default options unchanged, ES at 9, etc):
actions+=/flame_shock,if=!ticking|dot.flame_shock.remains<=X
I've run tests with values from X = 2 to 5 (shock CD talented) at intervals of 0.5 using many profiles (mine, BiS in simulator, current BiS in this post and many others) and I'm getting always a dps increase, the best at 3.5s with a ~150 dps gain, maybe due to the GCD and the time between the last two ticks.

Hope this helps, please correct me if I'm wrong.

#57 Bartuc

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Posted 27 June 2011 - 10:48 AM

So I was simming some of my characters this evening and in the middle of that process I noticed simcraft finally updated to 4.2 (live) with T12 gear.

Now this is nothing out of the ordinary, and should be expected. What I didn't expect to see we're results like this:

Simulationcraft Results

Now considering that I play resto 90% of the time and play a prot pally the other 10% of the time, I'm no expert on Enhancement. With that said, I do know that enhancement hasn't really ever been flavor of the month (ahem, Frost) or really even above average dps. Dont take that the wrong way, Enh is also one of the most engaging and all-around fun specs in the game. So I have two questions for you super serious enhancement heroes before I go back to bitching about druids over on the resto forums:

1. Is the newest simcraft legit?
2. What does Enhancement_caster mean per se? I know that entails using a caster weapon and hard casting lava burst on cooldown, but is that it?

#58 Althor

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Posted 27 June 2011 - 11:11 AM

So I was simming some of my characters this evening and in the middle of that process I noticed simcraft finally updated to 4.2 (live) with T12 gear.

Now this is nothing out of the ordinary, and should be expected. What I didn't expect too see we're results like this:

Simulationcraft Results

Now considering that I play resto 90% of the time and play a prot pally the other 10% of the time, I'm no expert on Enhancement. With that said, I do know that enhancement hasn't really ever been flavor of the month (ahem, Frost) or really even above average dps. Dont take that the wrong way, Enh is also one of the most engaging and all-around fun specs in the game. So I have two questions for you super serious enhancement heroes before I go back to bitching about druids over on the resto forums:

1. Is the newest simcraft legit?
2. What does Enhancement_caster mean per se? I know that entails using a caster weapon and hard casting lava burst on cooldown, but is that it?


1. I'm biased in that I'm one of the SimulationCraft developers (and I communicate a lot with our guy who does Shaman stuff both for Ele and Enh) but yes, I believe it is pretty legit. We do have some things that could use a closer examination but some of the things we know we do model correctly. Especially when it comes to how much abilities hit for. We test to the sub-+/- 1 dmg level with those where possible (Fire Elemental melee abilities are an example where it's not possible to be that accurate). We know that compared to EnhSim we model latency a bit differently and our action list includes hardcasting LvB when using a caster weapon but only as the lowest priority.

2. The _caster profile uses the same priority list as the non-caster profile with the following changes:

At the bottom of the priority list we change:
actions+=/lightning_bolt,if=buff.maelstrom_weapon.react=4

to:

actions+=/lightning_bolt,if=buff.maelstrom_weapon.react>1
actions+=/lava_burst,if=dot.flame_shock.remains>cast_time+travel_time

Otherwise we use the same priorities and the only gear difference is that it uses the caster axe (with Landslide and the spirit reforged to expertise rating). Basically, in SimulationCraft we see higher returns from using this caster weapon than seen in EnhSim. We're not really sure why just yet but we've been looking into it. We did find a bug in EnhSim yesterday that was stopping LvB from being cast as often as it could be even if trying to hardcast. Maybe we'll find either more bugs in EnhSim or some in SimulationCraft to explain the differences.

#59 VileVoodoo

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Posted 27 June 2011 - 03:06 PM

I don't know if there is coding for this to ignore one or the other but i saw in the "Constant Buffs" section in the SimCraft that both Mark of the Wild and Blessing of Kings is there. Could be that maybe they are stacking and inflating some numbers?

Constant Buffs
arcane_brilliance
blessing_of_kings
blessing_of_might
blessing_of_might_regen
fortitude
lightning_shield
mark_of_the_wild
replenishment

I also noticed the following stats:

Raid-Buffed Unbuffed Gear Amount
Strength 738 154 20
Agility 8659 5917 5558
Stamina 8712 7039 6890
Intellect 370 353 217
Spirit 267 267 109

Raid-Buffed figures seem a bit off but maybe its my lack of experience on SimCraft that is about to make me look like an idiot.

#60 Althor

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Posted 27 June 2011 - 09:38 PM

I don't know if there is coding for this to ignore one or the other but i saw in the "Constant Buffs" section in the SimCraft that both Mark of the Wild and Blessing of Kings is there. Could be that maybe they are stacking and inflating some numbers?

Constant Buffs
arcane_brilliance
blessing_of_kings
blessing_of_might
blessing_of_might_regen
fortitude
lightning_shield
mark_of_the_wild
replenishment

I also noticed the following stats:

Raid-Buffed Unbuffed Gear Amount
Strength 738 154 20
Agility 8659 5917 5558
Stamina 8712 7039 6890
Intellect 370 353 217
Spirit 267 267 109

Raid-Buffed figures seem a bit off but maybe its my lack of experience on SimCraft that is about to make me look like an idiot.


The following is the code where things like MotW and BoK gets used:
// player_t::composite_attribute_multiplier ================================

double player_t::composite_attribute_multiplier( int attr ) SC_CONST
{
  double m = attribute_multiplier[ attr ];

  // MotW / BoK
  // ... increasing Strength, Agility, Stamina, and Intellect by 5%
  if ( attr == ATTR_STRENGTH || attr ==  ATTR_AGILITY || attr ==  ATTR_STAMINA || attr ==  ATTR_INTELLECT )
    if ( buffs.blessing_of_kings -> up() || buffs.mark_of_the_wild -> up() )
      m *= 1.05;

  if ( attr == ATTR_SPIRIT )
    m *= 1.0 + buffs.mana_tide -> value();

  return m;
}

As you can see (if you understand C++) you only get to benefit from them once. As for the Raid-Buffed values, they are taken when it first executes the "snapshot_stats" action in the priority list. For some profiles we still have that action happening after they pop their pre-combat potion whereas for others we call snapshot_stats before popping their pre-combat potion. snapshot_stats just takes a record of stats at that given point in time for the purposes of displaying it on the final report. It has no actual effect on the simming itself.




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