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#21 Darkside

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Posted 26 November 2009 - 01:10 AM

That's fine, I'm relieved to hear that the problem wasn't on my end.

Looking over the sample output on the wiki page, I noticed that the numbers for Obliterate on the frost sim seem really really low. I normally have obliterate hits that are 1-2k higher than my frost strikes and here you have then listed as much, much lower. Also, the overall percentage of damage that is the result from frost strike seems off (too high), but I can't quite tell why.

e: When you list how much damage an attack has done, are you counting the MH/OH hits as one attack?

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#22 Starfox

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Posted 26 November 2009 - 11:16 AM

That's fine, I'm relieved to hear that the problem wasn't on my end.

Looking over the sample output on the wiki page, I noticed that the numbers for Obliterate on the frost sim seem really really low. I normally have obliterate hits that are 1-2k higher than my frost strikes and here you have then listed as much, much lower. Also, the overall percentage of damage that is the result from frost strike seems off (too high), but I can't quite tell why.

e: When you list how much damage an attack has done, are you counting the MH/OH hits as one attack?


A DW+ToT Obliterate will add 2 obliterates to the statsitics both hits with their individual damage/hit-result
So it is reported as the average of mh and oh hits.
I also noticed that ToT OH/MH hits are independant, so when you MH misses, the OH strike happens nevertheless (unlike rogue mutilate for example)
Edit: Just fixed a bug with the frost/blood/unholy options. (<=x, =x, >=x)
They returned 0-3 instead of 0-2
0 = none ready
1 = first ready
2 = second ready
3 = both ready

Never looked at that code. I simply implied that if you call something GET_BLOOD_RUNE_COUNT, it will return the count of blood runes ready :|
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#23 Quetz

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Posted 26 November 2009 - 06:35 PM

I'm not sure why but my ghoul and gargoyle don't use their abilities, while they do use them on SampleOutputT9DeathKnight.
ghoul  (DPS=1598.7)
    ghoul_melee        Count=394.3|0.76sec  DPE=  1214|19%  DPET=  1141  DPR=   0.0  pDPS=1598  Miss=0.00%  Hit=1099| 951|1172  Crit= 2198| 1901| 2345|16.5%  Glance= 825|24.1%
   gargoyle  (DPS=75.1)
    gargoyle_melee     Count= 50.0|4.33sec  DPE=   331| 1%  DPET=   273  DPR=   0.0  pDPS=  55  Miss=0.00%  Hit= 300| 300| 300  Crit=  600|  600|  600|16.6%  Glance= 225|24.3%
Any plans to include Army of the Dead?
In the constant buffs section Blood Presence doesn't appear while it does show on SampleOutputT9DeathKnight.
Bone Shield isn't applied in the action priority list. Not sure if the 2% dmg increase is factored in as passive aswell as the runic power gain from using Rune Tap + Bone Shield.
I'm also kinda confused about the position of Horn of Winter in the priority list, isn't it more logic to put Death Coil above Horn of Winter? Given you have a shaman with Strenght of Earth, you would only use Horn of Winter to get more runic power when you don't got anything else to do.

#24 Darkside

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Posted 26 November 2009 - 06:58 PM

A DW+ToT Obliterate will add 2 obliterates to the statsitics both hits with their individual damage/hit-result
So it is reported as the average of mh and oh hits.
I also noticed that ToT OH/MH hits are independant, so when you MH misses, the OH strike happens nevertheless (unlike rogue mutilate for example)
Edit: Just fixed a bug with the frost/blood/unholy options. (<=x, =x, >=x)
They returned 0-3 instead of 0-2
0 = none ready
1 = first ready
2 = second ready
3 = third ready

Never looked at that code. I simply implied that if you call something GET_BLOOD_RUNE_COUNT, it will return the count of blood runes ready :|


Ah, that makes sense. I grabbed the new code and now everything appears to be largely working; I can sim my character and get interesting looking results. However, I'm still seeing a large discrepancy between Obliterate damage in the sim and Obliterate damage as seen in game. As mentioned earlier, it's about 4k damage too low. I've gone through your code looking for reasons why this might be true, but I can't find any. It looks like you have all talent/disease/glyph buffs covered so I can't for the life of me figure out what's causing this problem.

ginger booty get on with yo bad self


#25 Starfox

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Posted 26 November 2009 - 07:24 PM

simc-322-10-win32.zip - simulationcraft - patch 3.2.2 and 3.3.0; GUI is win32-mingw; CLI is win32-msvc++ - Project Hosting on Google Code
DRW still not working

@Quetz: Can you try with that download?
But I'll look into it nevertheless
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#26 Darkside

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Posted 26 November 2009 - 08:24 PM

Found some more stuff for fixing!

The Frost Action list current looks like:

actions+=/food,type=dragonfin_filet
actions+=/presence,choose=blood
actions+=/snapshot_stats
actions+=/auto_attack
actions+=/unbreakable_armor,time>=10
actions+=/raise_dead,time>=15,time<=40
actions+=/raise_dead,bloodlust=1
actions+=/icy_touch,frost_fever<=2
actions+=/plague_strike,blood_plague<=2
actions+=/howling_blast,rime=1,killing_machine=1
actions+=/obliterate
actions+=/blood_strike,death<=2
actions+=/frost_strike
actions+=/empower_rune_weapon
actions+=/howling_blast,rime=1
actions+=/horn_of_winter
actions+=/blood_fury

It should be:

actions+=/food,type=dragonfin_filet
actions+=/presence,choose=blood
actions+=/snapshot_stats
actions+=/auto_attack
actions+=/blood_fury
actions+=/unbreakable_armor,time>=10
actions+=/raise_dead,time>=15,time<=40
actions+=/raise_dead,bloodlust=1
actions+=/howling_blast,rime=1,killing_machine=1
actions+=/frost_strike,killing_machine=1
actions+=/icy_touch,frost_fever<=2
actions+=/plague_strike,blood_plague<=2
actions+=/obliterate
actions+=/blood_strike,death<=2
actions+=/frost_strike
actions+=/empower_rune_weapon
actions+=/howling_blast,rime=1
actions+=/horn_of_winter

This will Frost Strike every time there is a KM proc, assuming Rime hasn't already proc'd. It will also force BF to be used on cooldown, which is a DPS increase at it is off the GCD.

Also, has blood tap been implemented yet?

ginger booty get on with yo bad self


#27 Starfox

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Posted 26 November 2009 - 08:32 PM

Found some more stuff for fixing!

The Frost Action list current looks like:

actions+=/food,type=dragonfin_filet
actions+=/presence,choose=blood
actions+=/snapshot_stats
actions+=/auto_attack
actions+=/unbreakable_armor,time>=10
actions+=/raise_dead,time>=15,time<=40
actions+=/raise_dead,bloodlust=1
actions+=/icy_touch,frost_fever<=2
actions+=/plague_strike,blood_plague<=2
actions+=/howling_blast,rime=1,killing_machine=1
actions+=/obliterate
actions+=/blood_strike,death<=2
actions+=/frost_strike
actions+=/empower_rune_weapon
actions+=/howling_blast,rime=1
actions+=/horn_of_winter
actions+=/blood_fury

It should be:

actions+=/food,type=dragonfin_filet
actions+=/presence,choose=blood
actions+=/snapshot_stats
actions+=/auto_attack
actions+=/blood_fury
actions+=/unbreakable_armor,time>=10
actions+=/raise_dead,time>=15,time<=40
actions+=/raise_dead,bloodlust=1
actions+=/howling_blast,rime=1,killing_machine=1
actions+=/frost_strike,killing_machine=1
actions+=/icy_touch,frost_fever<=2
actions+=/plague_strike,blood_plague<=2
actions+=/obliterate
actions+=/blood_strike,death<=2
actions+=/frost_strike
actions+=/empower_rune_weapon
actions+=/howling_blast,rime=1
actions+=/horn_of_winter

This will Frost Strike every time there is a KM proc, assuming Rime hasn't already proc'd. It will also force BF to be used on cooldown, which is a DPS increase at it is off the GCD.

Also, has blood tap been implemented yet?

Trinkets/Racials should be used after auto_attack normally
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For all my homies.
Do not run, we are your friends.
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#28 Quetz

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Posted 26 November 2009 - 09:07 PM

Using 322.10 now the ghoul/gargoyle issue is resolved (I was using 322.9), also Blood Presence is active in the Constant Buff section.
But earlier another thing came to mind, also from the priority list.
7	summon_gargoyle,bloodlust=1
I'm assuming that this means you activate your gargoyle when bloodlust is active, and only then.
Tho in a 5min fight you can use gargoyle twice since it has a 3min cooldown.

#29 dedmonwakeen

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Posted 26 November 2009 - 09:12 PM

I just put out a new release fixing a bug introduced back in v9. Argh.

#30 Starfox

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Posted 26 November 2009 - 09:29 PM

Using 322.10 now the ghoul/gargoyle issue is resolved (I was using 322.9), also Blood Presence is active in the Constant Buff section.
But earlier another thing came to mind, also from the priority list.

7	summon_gargoyle,bloodlust=1
I'm assuming that this means you activate your gargoyle when bloodlust is active, and only then.
Tho in a 5min fight you can use gargoyle twice since it has a 3min cooldown.


I changed the default actions so unholy summons the gargoyle once in the first 20seconds and the second time under bloodlust
Edit: Tundra Stalker was not in. Added it :/
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Light the fuse.
For all my homies.
Do not run, we are your friends.
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#31 tripp6sic6

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 05:48 PM

I see a possible bug in the 3.3 Scourge Strike. On the pie chart that shows the damage sources of the player, scourge_strike and scourge_strike_shadow are both colored purple instead of scourge_strike being brown and scourge_strike_shadow being purple. Does this mean that the physical portion is doing shadow damage or is it simply a visual bug?

#32 Starfox

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 07:01 PM

I see a possible bug in the 3.3 Scourge Strike. On the pie chart that shows the damage sources of the player, scourge_strike and scourge_strike_shadow are both colored purple instead of scourge_strike being brown and scourge_strike_shadow being purple. Does this mean that the physical portion is doing shadow damage or is it simply a visual bug?


Ah, just a visual bug, I only set the school on the action itself to physical. Forgot to also change it in the stats for SS.
Fixed in r4027
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For all my homies.
Do not run, we are your friends.
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#33 Darkside

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    I find your lack of faith disturbing.

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 07:07 PM

Edit: Tundra Stalker was not in. Added it :/


Whoa, that amped up Frost Damage by quite a bit. The damage from Oblit is still several thousand lower than what it is on live though :(

I've been doing a few sims to get an idea of stat weights, but I've noticed that there can be absolutely enormous variance in the values produced. For example:

3.2104 1.1999 1.0000 4.1707 1.8148 2.9310 2.0621 1.9866 8.2241 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000

2.0750 1.0161 1.0000 1.7200 1.3800 1.1491 1.4473 1.3451 5.3868 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000

I got those values on back to back simulations. Is such an incredible amount of deviation commonplace for such calculations or unique to the Death Knight model?

ginger booty get on with yo bad self


#34 dedmonwakeen

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 07:14 PM

I have found that it takes about 10k ( or even 20k ) iterations to get reasonable scale factors.

We've experimented a ton with contorting the various RNG packages (aka smooth_rng=1). This will provide repeatability, but there are some stats such as Crit Rating where I'm just happy with results yet.

#35 Starfox

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 07:15 PM

Whoa, that amped up Frost Damage by quite a bit. The damage from Oblit is still several thousand lower than what it is on live though :(

I've been doing a few sims to get an idea of stat weights, but I've noticed that there can be absolutely enormous variance in the values produced. For example:

3.2104 1.1999 1.0000 4.1707 1.8148 2.9310 2.0621 1.9866 8.2241 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000

2.0750 1.0161 1.0000 1.7200 1.3800 1.1491 1.4473 1.3451 5.3868 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000

I got those values on back to back simulations. Is such an incredible amount of deviation commonplace for such calculations or unique to the Death Knight model?

Oh, that is clearly an issue here.
It is pretty common when you forget to reset things, don't initialize variables etc. :S
One of the included profiles? Or was it just out of line for every DK profile?
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Do not run, we are your friends.
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#36 Darkside

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 07:21 PM

Those values were calculated using my character's gear. I'll check again later with the provided profiles.

I've noticed that the error decreases if I run more simulation iterations, but it is still too large for comfort (on the order of 10-15%).

I have found that it takes about 10k ( or even 20k ) iterations to get reasonable scale factors.

We've experimented a ton with contorting the various RNG packages (aka smooth_rng=1). This will provide repeatability, but there are some stats such as Crit Rating where I'm just happy with results yet.


That seems odd, especially since I noticed that my damage output for both simulations was essentially the same (very minor deviance, maybe 2-3%). What is happening to produce such wild swings in the stat weights?

ginger booty get on with yo bad self


#37 Starfox

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 07:42 PM

Those values were calculated using my character's gear. I'll check again later with the provided profiles.

I've noticed that the error decreases if I run more simulation iterations, but it is still too large for comfort (on the order of 10-15%).



That seems odd, especially since I noticed that my damage output for both simulations was essentially the same (very minor deviance, maybe 2-3%). What is happening to produce such wild swings in the stat weights?


There is clearly an issue, consecutive iterations get slower and slower.
For scale factors you need very high iteration counts, that's when I noticed the issue (I rune scalefactors with iterations=50k)
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Light the fuse.
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Do not run, we are your friends.
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#38 dedmonwakeen

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 08:42 PM

Those values were calculated using my character's gear. I'll check again later with the provided profiles.

I've noticed that the error decreases if I run more simulation iterations, but it is still too large for comfort (on the order of 10-15%).


That error value is not only outside of "comfort" but well into "bug" range. We will dive in.

EDIT: I solved the runtime issue, but I doubt this will solve the variance problem. I will continue analysis.

#39 tripp6sic6

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 04:15 PM

I edited the current Unholy profile to use the rotation that will be used in 3.3 and am getting the same variance he talked about. In three different runs at 10,000 iterations with no smooth RNG, here were the results.

2.0116 1.7981 1.0228 0.0827 1.6544 1.4802 2.0179 1.8565 5.7330
2.0116 1.5881 0.7054 0.5889 1.3504 1.7968 1.6783 1.7021 4.7066
1.6978 0.8282 0.7130 1.6894 1.3522 2.5918 1.3952 1.1694 3.7944

death_knight=Death_Knight_T9_17_00_54
origin=http://profiler.wowhead.com/?profile=18127877
level=80
race=tauren
talents=http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#jfVMVZZfMbI0cdg0ux0uIqo
glyphs=the_ghoul/dark_death/icy_touch/horn_of_winter/pestilence/raise_dead
actions=flask,type=endless_rage
actions+=/food,type=dragonfin_filet
actions+=/presence,choose=blood
actions+=/snapshot_stats
actions+=/auto_attack
actions+=/raise_dead
actions+=/plague_strike,blood_plague<=2
actions+=/icy_touch,frost_fever<=2
actions+=/blood_strike,death=0
actions+=/scourge_strike
actions+=/summon_gargoyle,time<=20
actions+=/summon_gargoyle,bloodlust=1
actions+=/death_coil
actions+=/horn_of_winter
actions+=/empower_rune_weapon
ranged=sigil_of_virulence
# Gear Summary
gear_strength=1843
gear_agility=118
gear_stamina=1706
gear_intellect=20
gear_spirit=20
gear_attack_power=901
gear_expertise_rating=214
gear_armor_penetration_rating=94
gear_hit_rating=264
gear_crit_rating=1085
gear_haste_rating=342
gear_armor=14987
meta_gem=relentless_earthsiege
tier9_2pc_melee=1
tier9_4pc_melee=1
trinket1=deaths_choice
trinket2=deaths_verdict,id=47131
main_hand=dualblade_butcher,weapon=axe2h_3.60speed_811min_1217max,enchant=rune_of_the_fallen_crusader


#40 dedmonwakeen

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 05:00 PM

I edited the current Unholy profile to use the rotation that will be used in 3.3 and am getting the same variance he talked about. In three different runs at 10,000 iterations with no smooth RNG, here were the results.

2.0116 1.7981 1.0228 0.0827 1.6544 1.4802 2.0179 1.8565 5.7330
2.0116 1.5881 0.7054 0.5889 1.3504 1.7968 1.6783 1.7021 4.7066
1.6978 0.8282 0.7130 1.6894 1.3522 2.5918 1.3952 1.1694 3.7944


Is it possible for you to run the CLI? The GUI is running with Qt+MinGW and the CLI is using MSVC++.

Running on my development platform (Linux) using the profile above I get a nice tight result with minimal variance. I am unable to test it on Windows until much later tonight.

To use the CLI, take your profile and add the following to the top:
patch=3.3.0
calculate_scale_factors=1
iterations=10000

If you want to speed it up, you can just analyze a subset of the stats:
scale_only=str,agi

simc.exe your_profile output=output.txt html=output.html




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