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#41 Rabid Rob

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 06:51 PM

Rating -> Percentage is dependent solely on your own level from the information I've gotten. If you want an in-game example to compare it to, think of the way Agi -> Crit changes for melee classes as they level.

Rob, I doubt hunters will see 50% crit, given that only Karazhan+ gear is quoted as being an improvement over Naxx gear, and Naxx gear won't allow 50% crit as is, even before it begins to scale down with level.

I said "+ buffs" because combining shammy GoA + pally BoK + upgrades to those buffs + possible new feral druid buffs (and more Agi from new Mark of Wild) + more Agi from Elixir + Lightning Reflexes... well, it's just plain crazy how much that is going to add up to!

BoK + LR is actually multiplicative, so thats 27.5% Agi increase of all the previous 100s Agi's in that buff list.

#42 Kalman

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 07:17 PM

And rogues will be getting a 21% agility increase (new sub talent plus Kings) and require only slightly more than half as much base agility per point crit, but I don't expect them to allow rogue 50% crit rates either. If the scaling follows the way I'd expect, hunters will be looking at 60+ agi per % crit at level 70, which eliminates much of the benefit of the buffs in the first place.

We'll have to see, of course, but I think the whole point of this "rating" system is to avoid 50%+ crit rates.
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#43 Rabid Rob

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 07:25 PM

And rogues will be getting a 21% agility increase (new sub talent plus Kings) and require only slightly more than half as much base agility per point crit, but I don't expect them to allow rogue 50% crit rates either. If the scaling follows the way I'd expect, hunters will be looking at 60+ agi per % crit at level 70, which eliminates much of the benefit of the buffs in the first place.

We'll have to see, of course, but I think the whole point of this "rating" system is to avoid 50%+ crit rates.

Yup, that's precisely why they're being implemented.

#44 Kalman

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 08:43 PM

And rogues will be getting a 21% agility increase (new sub talent plus Kings) and require only slightly more than half as much base agility per point crit, but I don't expect them to allow rogue 50% crit rates either. If the scaling follows the way I'd expect, hunters will be looking at 60+ agi per % crit at level 70, which eliminates much of the benefit of the buffs in the first place.

We'll have to see, of course, but I think the whole point of this "rating" system is to avoid 50%+ crit rates.

Yup, that's precisely why they're being implemented.

Hunters will be critting > 50% in raids.

I'm confused.
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#45 Kollar

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 07:52 AM

http://img201.images...ackhandsbg4.jpg

New Blackhand's Breadth. Don't know if it adds anything to the discussion, but might be good to know. Also, one of my friends tell me that Hunter's currently only get 1 RAP per AGI on the servers.

EDIT: Fixed the URL.

#46 Decker

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 08:20 AM

Ask him about talents! :P

#47 Kollar

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 08:25 AM

Talent's are not done yet. I'm also guessing Blizzard will put them up as soon as they are.

#48 twofold

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 08:29 AM

Yeah, but us evil hunters get 2 RAP for each Agi, and with LR, our Agi pool is hooooge... leading up to probiscus' comment smile

Rumour has it hunters only get 1 RAP per agi in the expansion, so, what you've said isn't quite correct.

#49 Chicken

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 09:01 AM

Yeah, but us evil hunters get 2 RAP for each Agi, and with LR, our Agi pool is hooooge... leading up to probiscus' comment smile

Rumour has it hunters only get 1 RAP per agi in the expansion, so, what you've said isn't quite correct.

Rumour has it the first raid boss in TBC that's going to be beatable is a giant naked Tigole who drops a 40-slot resist armour bag.

(Apologies to the mods!)

#50 aquacadet

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 04:23 PM

I've also heard the 1 RAP per agi rumor. To counter it current ranged weapons are getting boosted damage. Hmm maybe R14 or a Huhu bow isn't such a bad idea.

#51 Rabid Rob

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 05:07 PM

I'm confused.

Yeah, we're in the middle of a convo here, dude, don't forget all the previous posts. Given the current mechanic of hunter talents, itemization, buffs, the implication is hunters will be getting to 50% crit in the raid setting.

The rating system will make it a little harder, but all the Agi buffs are getting overwhelming.

Which I think entirely supports the rumors hinting at complete reworking of hunter mechanics in the form of the Agi -> Rap nerf, etc.

So on the one hand we'd end up doing too much damage, but with a complete rework, will we do enough to be worth bringing along? We're essentially a pure ranged DPS class, in competition with a superior melee DPS class and another DPS class with considerable utility. It's gonna be a scary ride! :)

#52 frmorrison

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 05:11 PM

Also, one of my friends tell me that Hunter's currently only get 1 RAP per AGI on the servers.

If Hunters are on the Alpha server, what do they have for talents (the current ones or just no talents)?.

If 1 agility becomes 1 RAP, then I hope the agi/crit ratio goes down.

#53 Oaken

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 06:06 PM

I guess I can't see why people are all that shocked that their gear with ilvl less than 70 would get replaced on the way to level 70. Don Julio's is a level 65 item. Tier 1 gear is ilvl 66. Tier 2 is ilvl 76, so you will probably keep a lot of that gear or better until you start picking up epics at level 70. Where's the surprise in that?

I don't think you are looking at those items very closely:

Sure-Step Boots
+16 Agi
+24 Sta
+32 AP
(roughly 0.5% crit or equivalent and 48AP)

Bloodfang Boots
+6str
+25 Agi
+17 Sta
+10 FR
+1% dodge
(just under 1% crit and 31 AP)

I'm going to guess there are more than a few rogues willing to trade 9 agility for 17AP. And this is T2 versus a blue quest reward that it appears to be possible to get at level 60-62, not level 70.

I do think its pretty funny that it wasn't that long ago people were using ilvls to claim Blizzard would not obsolete T3 gear very fast. It was based of course on the faulty assumption that ilevel formulas would not change:

http://forums.elitis...pic.php?id=7635

Hindsight being, of course, 20-20.

Edit: missed strength on Bloodfang. My point still stands though. :) BWL gear equivalents will show up very quickly. Will be interesting to see how quickly people are having similar debates about Naxx sidegrades/upgrades.

#54 frmorrison

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 06:21 PM

Sure-Step Boots (roughly 0.5% crit or equivalent and 48AP)

Bloodfang Boots
+6 Str
+25 Agi
+17 Sta
+10 FR
+1% dodge
(just under 1% crit and 31 AP)

There is 6 strength on BF boots. So .5% crit 1.75% dodge vs. 17 AP and 7 stam.

I would prefer the blue boots over BF for group dps and the BF boots for leveling (that dodge is handy for something and the armor is a little higher).

However, that 1% dodge will turn into a rating, so it will weaken as you level, making the blue boots better for leveling at a certain point.

#55 Gort

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 06:40 PM

It's worth noting that the BF boots kinda blow goat chunks, and many of their points are spent in an inexplicable--though occasionally handy--and expensive dodge bonus.

#56 Degorn

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 08:50 PM

So flat melee/spell crit/hit items scale down with level as they should, but...what about Hand of Justice?

#57 impossible!

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 09:04 PM

So flat melee/spell crit/hit items scale down with level as they should, but...what about Hand of Justice?

I honestly doubt that we'll ever truly be rid of Hand of Justice. It'll be Spring of 2009, everyone will be level 100 and people will still be sporting that trinket. :V:

#58 Shalas

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 10:01 PM

At least you'll be able to solo farm it instead of needing a friend or two.

#59 Zeboim

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 10:58 PM

OK I'm crying now. Well, this is what I'm telling folks so the can freak out now not later, and prepare:

First off, some of you when you see this are gonna freak out, scream bloody murder etc etc... Well, to fight mudflation, they gotta do this, and to stop us from having 50% crit at lvl 70, and finally, to give us incentive to get gear sooner rather than later. I really don't see any way to get around doing something like this, it'll hurt at first, but pay off later.

Leaked ALPHA info:
Crit bonus Level of player:
1 60
.92 61
.87 62
.81 63
.75 64

So it appears to be a steady .07 decrease in effectiveness per level, assuming blizz's usual rounding oddness. The 1% to crit gets converted to a crit rating of, say, 100. That stays constant, but the ammount of crit rating required to get 1% crit bonus increases enough each level to chop off .07 crit per level.

This means items with stats converted to the rating system will decay in effectiveness faster than oher items.

Stats that I know are being converted to ratings:
tohit - crit - spell tohit - spell crit

Stats that I haven't seen confirmed as being converted yet (but I bet they are!):
parry - dodge - defense (I think this is the new "resilience" rating)

Yeah... warriors get the worst of it I think.

An item example:
Don Julio's Band
11 stamina
1 crit
1 tohit
16 attack power

This item has 2 abilities that are decaying as I level. Assuming I don't respec to Lightning Reflexes, it'll be outmoded by an Agi ring I have at level 61. At level 64 it'll have lost 25% off both the crit and tohit, making other stat based epics it once outshined quite superior.

So be prepared! For the expac, the items that will last the longest will be the non-rating converted ones. Strong rating gear will give a boost for the first few levels, but then you'll want those stats.

Please tell me if I got this wrong.
From what I understand, x amount of crit rating will be 1% crit at level 60 and 0.3% crit at level 70. If this is correct, then at level 75, no matter how much crit rating you get, you will not get any addiditonal crit. That would mean either this is a temporary mechanical fix for this xpac only, or blizzard screwed up, or i misunderstood.

#60 Celandro

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 11:18 PM

Leveling up causing you to be less effective against the same mob is an obvious problem they should fix. Basing it on target level somehow would work pretty well. If they are using it to slow down leveling, increasing the exp required to level substantially and the exp for killing mobs higher level than 60 would do the trick.

Getting less powerful as you level up is an obvious design flaw.




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