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#1 Rouncer

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 07:17 PM

Going to continue this thread for Cataclysm updates and to garner help with testing on the Beta and PTRs. Please see the second post to see what Ziff would like tested and if that seems out of date then please check the last page of the thread.

What is EnhSim and what can it do for you?

EnhSim is a World of Warcraft utility for simulating shaman combat. EnhSim tries to accurately replicate combat and it's mechanics inside WoW to generate useful data to enhance your playing. In damage dealing role, this means maximizing your DPS. EnhSim helps you to:

  • Find the best rotation for max DPS.
  • Optimize your talents.
  • Choose the best equipment, enchants, consumables etc. available.
  • Calculate your personal EP values.

Information for using EnhSim can be found at About EnhSim

The latest version can always be found at EnhSim

Current Release Notes

2.0.2 ALPHA
This alpha adds in the changes for Cataclysm up to beta build 12942. This initial alpha does not include the GUI, just the command line version.
To use this alpha, you must have the Microsoft Visual C 2010 Redistributable Package installed. This can be downloaded from Download details: Microsoft Visual C++ 2010 Redistributable Package (x86)

Added Fire Nova to UW Flametongue
Added LL_SFx to the rotation to allow you to hold Lava Lash until x stacks of Searing Flames
Switched the Glyph of Stormstrike to a crit bonus buff


2.0.1 ALPHA
This alpha adds in the changes for Cataclysm up to beta build 12942. This initial alpha does not include the GUI, just the command line version.
To use this alpha, you must have the Microsoft Visual C 2010 Redistributable Package installed. This can be downloaded from Download details: Microsoft Visual C++ 2010 Redistributable Package (x86)

Chain Lightning now has a 3 sec cooldown, down from 6 sec.
Stormstrike now increases your chance to critical strike the enemy with Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, Lightning Shield and Earth Shock spells by 25% for 15 sec instead of increasing nature damage by 20% on the target.
Windfury Weapon - Unleash Weapon now lasts 6 swings or until 12 sec, instead of a flat 12 sec.
Maelstrom Weapon no longer affects Lava Burst.
Lighning Shield can now crit


2.0.0 ALPHA
This alpha adds in the changes for Cataclysm up to beta build 12857. This initial alpha does not include the GUI, just the command line version.

Added level85.h with approximations of 85 combat ratings, spell base damage, and coefficients for known spells. Fire Elemental, Earth Elemental, and Feral Spirits were not updated.
Changed mana regen to a flat 1171 mp5, as in combat regen is not affected by int or spirit anymore for non-healers.
Added in Mastery rating
Changed how Primary Talents are described in the config file to reduce the chance of conflicts
Changed how spell damage multipliers are applied to be more dynamic in preparation of having dynamic mastery buffs
Added Unleashed Elements into the standard rotation, as UE
Updated all buff and debuffs and all enhance relevant talents except the Unleashed Elements aspect of Elemental Weapons.
Show output for Searing Flames and Improved Lava Lash, including uptimes and damage.
Updated the config file to match with above changes.
Added in the Unleashed Weapon effects for Windfury and Flametongue.
Added initial version of Unleashed Elements.
Updated to Boost 1.44.0
Also fixed a problem with the flurry haste effect not getting cleared if it was active at the end of a combat run
Removed the "Cast LvB only if FS dots left" option for Work Item # 7089


EnhSim 1.9.8.10
Release Notes
Added in the Charred Twilight Scale trinkets
Added in Maelstrom Weapon for Lava Burst to allow some Cataclysm testing
Fixed how the Glyph of Flame Shock was being applied
Fixed Lava Burst to use Maelstrom Weapon stacks when calculating its cast time
Fixed Lava Burst to actually consume Maelstrom Weapon stacks when the cast completes

Project Coordinators
Levva
Rouncer
joenievelt

Project Developers
Alandovos
Arbreng
Cryolithic
Eralun
Mcdrewski
tortugapir8
Ziff
Extenze

This project is a continuation of the excellent work already done by Tukez and the original EnhSim project at EnhSim.

#2 Rouncer

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 07:18 PM

Check list of Outstanding Issues

Now that it looks like most of the Cata mechanics are in the sim, I'd like to get out a beta in the next couple days. The only outstanding work items are updating the UI for the new talents/buffs, and updating the spell damages so they are reasonable for level 85. So I'd like to make sure we get some of the base spell damages at level 85 in there. Especially since most of the damage numbers are based off of at best level 83.

Got most of the numbers, just need to get Feral Spirits and the guardians. Known values in blue.

Lighning Bolt Base 770, Coeff 0.71398
Chain Lightning Base 1092, Coeff 0.57101
Lava Burst Base 1440, Coeff 0.57095
Flame Shock Direct Damage Base 531, Coeff 0.21407
Flame Shock Dot Base 859, Coeff 0.60024
Earth Shock Base 931, Coeff 0.38599
Frost Shock Base 872, Coeff 0.38604
Searing Totem Base 95, Coeff 0.16696
Magma Totem Base 268, Coeff 0.06712
Lightning Shield Base 391, Coeff 0.26720
Fire Nova Base 686, Coeff 0.14292
Fire Elemental - Fire Blast
Fire Elemental - Fire Nova
Fire Elemental - Fire Shield
Fire Elemental - Melee
Earth Elemental
Feral Spirits
Windfury 1395 extra AP
Flametongue @ 2.6 speed Base 119, Coeff 0.10005
Elemental Weapon Flametongue Base 1117, Coeff 0.42902
Frostbrand Base 612, Coeff 0.10004
Elemental Weapon Frostbrand Base 872, Coeff 0.38602
Base Mana 23430



#3 pintor

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 10:00 PM

In the newest version of EnhSim Beta (1.9.1.2) I am now getting best results dropping MT down again in priority and setting it to refresh at 1 tick. I am also getting more benefit with 2 points in reverb and no points in improved stormstrike, with only 1 in improved fire nova if you have 4 pc t9. Thought I would share my config and results (my current gear).

config:
### Saved by v1.9.1.2 of EnhSimGUI

config_version                  1.9.1.2
simulation_time                 5000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   7.00
report_count                    80
threads                         1
combat_length_rng_factor        0.35
min_lag                         200
max_lag                         250
simulate_mana                   1
cast_sr_on_cooldown             0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    3
cast_magma_only_if_ticks_left   1
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       15000
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    0

rotation_priority_count         13
rotation_priority1              SW
rotation_priority2              FS
rotation_priority3              MW5_LB
rotation_priority4              ES_SS
rotation_priority5              SS
rotation_priority6              ES
rotation_priority7              MT
rotation_priority8              LL
rotation_priority9              LS
rotation_priority10             FN
rotation_priority11             SR
rotation_priority12             MW3_LB
rotation_priority13             MW4_LB

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10643
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0
additional_targets              0
additional_target_percent       50.0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          687/687
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   51/51
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1
mixology                        0

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          potion_of_speed
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          196.5
oh_dps                          196.5
mh_crit                         38.31
oh_crit                         38.31
mh_hit                          12.84
oh_hit                          12.84
mh_expertise_rating             139
oh_expertise_rating             139
ap                              5037
melee_haste                     15.30
armor_penetration               12.79
str                             147
agi                             1187
int                             683
spi                             172
spellpower                      1511
spell_crit                      27.70
spell_hit                       15.05
spell_haste                     11.77
max_mana                        15000
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       axe
oh_weapon                       axe

trinket1                        deaths_verdict
trinket2                        shard_of_the_crystal_heart

totem                           totem_of_electrifying_wind

set_bonus1                      t9_battlegear_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         41285

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   swordguard_embroidery

glyph_major1                    feral_spirit
glyph_major2                    flame_shock
glyph_major3                    stormstrike

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                1/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            0/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   2/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
improved_fire_nova              1/2
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5



Results:

EnhSim version 1.9.1.2

................................................................................

MH:
miss                977769         7.15%
dodge               1415           0.01%
glancing            3283338        24.00%
hit                 1893862        13.84%
crit                7525556        55.00%
average ap          8144.36        
clip                83309          0.61%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          13.94%
procs/swings        13.06%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               387            0.01%
hit                 1706893        42.02%
crit                2354586        57.97%
average ap          8144.98        

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               186            0.01%
hit                 784533         42.05%
crit                1080981        57.94%
average ap          8137.61        

OH:
miss                979671         7.16%
dodge               1294           0.01%
glancing            3283671        24.00%
hit                 1895338        13.85%
crit                7522566        54.98%
average ap          8154.07        
clip                82894          0.60%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 9584958        58.14%
crit                6902392        41.86%
average sp          3047.00        

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               193            0.01%
hit                 783706         42.01%
crit                1081615        57.98%
average ap          8179.21        

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1039861        58.17%
crit                747665         41.83%
average sp          3042.42        

Flame Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 514901         58.15%
crit                370580         41.85%
average sp          3042.44        
dots hit            3088347        58.13%
dots crit           2224535        41.87%
average dot sp      3051.52        

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               161            0.01%
hit                 807254         42.03%
crit                1113200        57.96%
average ap          8159.88        

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1591746        58.10%
crit                1147980        41.90%
average sp          3043.35        

Fire Nova:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 689389         58.09%
crit                497453         41.91%
average sp          3039.59        

Lightning Shield:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 3674934        100.00%
crit                0              0.00%
average sp          3050.04        

Spirit Wolves:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            2008584        24.02%
hit                 5393256        64.49%
crit                961678         11.50%
average ap          8161.40        

Magma Totem:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 4813484        58.12%
crit                3468005        41.88%
average sp          3045.87        

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 50.72

flurry uptime                  93.00%
unleashed rage uptime          0.00%
elemental devastation uptime   78.87%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              41.65%
oh enchant uptime              41.53%
searing totem uptime           0.00%
magma totem uptime             92.97%

trinket1 uptime                32.52%
trinket2 uptime                18.73%
racial uptime                  0.00%
totem uptime                   80.46%
metagem uptime                 0.00%
gloves enchant uptime          0.00%
cloak enchant uptime           26.91%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.00      0.00%
mp5                 17.57     8.67%
replenishment       43.13     21.28%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom 9.09      4.48%
shamanistic rage    132.90    65.57%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc                0.00      0.00%
stormstrike         0.00      0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               2671.57   32.01%    91.21
windfury            925.18    11.09%    6.77
flametongue         622.30    7.46%     54.96
stormstrike         408.66    4.9%      6.22      34.26     15.71%
lava lash           290.87    3.49%     6.40      12.97     5.95%
magma totem         588.90    7.06%     3.00      55.80     25.58%
earth shock         562.08    6.73%     5.96      25.58     11.73%
flame shock         405.94    4.86%     2.95      12.34     5.66%
lightning bolt      990.30    11.87%    9.13      55.40     25.40%
fire nova           200.31    2.4%      3.96      18.49     8.48%
lightning shield    370.06    4.43%     1.74      0.00      0.00%
spirit wolves       309.66    3.71%     0.40      3.28      1.50%

DPS                 8345.82
MPS                 218.14
MP2min              26176.27
MRPS                248.77
Out of mana time    0.17%

elapsed simulation time: 5000.00h
elapsed real time: 22.00s
simulation speed: 817995x

edit: The difference if I take 2 points in reverb and put them in fire nova/improved stormstrike is ~25 dps

#4 Rouncer

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 10:25 PM

edit: The difference if I take 2 points in reverb and put them in fire nova/improved stormstrike is ~25 dps


and how much of a difference do those points make if 25% of the encounter has 4 adds that can be affected by Fire Nova? The multiple target feature in the Boss Panel is the big new change in EnhSim and that is what we really need people to start testing. We also need to start figuring out a proper Boss panel config to use that will average out all the encounters. Should start with ToC since all the encounters are known and then once we have something that we can agree on, and we are sure that the multiple target feature is working properly, then we can start to talk about optimizing talents and priorities. We should also start figuring out a general configuration to use for ICC.

#5 pintor

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 10:35 PM

and how much of a difference do those points make if 25% of the encounter has 4 adds that can be affected by Fire Nova? The multiple target feature in the Boss Panel is the big new change in EnhSim and that is what we really need people to start testing. We also need to start figuring out a proper Boss panel config to use that will average out all the encounters. Should start with ToC since all the encounters are known and then once we have something that we can agree on, and we are sure that the multiple target feature is working properly, then we can start to talk about optimizing talents and priorities. We should also start figuring out a general configuration to use for ICC.


I agree with this most certainly. However, without a way to model chain lightning appropriately I have yet to start playing the with multiple target model. I think once that is figured out we can start to discuss it. Full single target models still do have their place though, especially those who can run with 2 enhancement specs.

I was simply just sharing some interesting results, especially given that in the previous model, having MT high up in the priority was a big deal. Additonally, many people refresh the totem (myself included) with 5-6 ticks left and the model is showing a much bigger difference (in the realm of 100-150 dps) for dropping the totem past 3 ticks.

edit: perhaps this was the wrong thread for this. Maybe should have been in the BiS thread.

#6 Rouncer

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 11:16 PM

Chain Lightning is certainly modeled by the multiple target section or do you mean in relation to using the Elemental Totem?

#7 pintor

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 11:37 PM

Chain Lightning is certainly modeled by the multiple target section or do you mean in relation to using the Elemental Totem?


I meant in relation to the elemental totem as well as how it is difficult to model %-uptime of multiple targets in relation to chain lightning (i.e. there is no code yet to only use CL if target>2, though I know it is in the works).

#8 Jessamy

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 12:45 AM

There are significant changes to enhsim with the newest version, including the multiple target functionality. Another significant, but less flashy, change is making the default mean fight length 7 minutes instead of 10. I assume this is for (at least) two reasons: to better represent actual in game boss fight lengths, and to prevent the default 35% rng factor from ever causing the sim to cast bloodlust twice in the same combat.

With these changes in mind, I decided to revisit the mass sim batch process and see if 35% is still a reasonable rng factor. Note that my goal is not to find (or approach) the rng that will produce the most dps, but rather the rng that will be the most representative.

So with this post* (10m mean fight length, no multiple target) for comparison, here are my preliminary findings. I color coded the data. At 43% rng, a 7m mean fight length will start to introduce a second bloodlust for some of the fights. If preventing this is a deliberate design philosophy on the part of the enhsim development team, the data from 43% and above can be declared not representative of in game results.

Posted Image

Posted Image

The shape of this graph is quite different from the single target 10 minute results I and others have posted. I'll tentatively say that 35% is still a reasonable value for an rng factor though. After an initial sharp change, the data stabilizes, and 35% is within the stable range. At 43% when a second bloodlust is introduced, the data starts changing again.

* Spec, talents, and gear were changed as little as possible. I moved my 5 points in Elemental Warding and Reverberation to Call of Flame and Improved Fire Nova. I added Fire Nova to the priority, but did not add Chain Lightning, or move spells around in the priority.

#9 Extenze

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 07:03 AM

A 7minute fight would favor spirit wolve dps highly. I also believe that's the reason for the shape of the graph. There's not a 2nd dip.
Bulk Sim with variable RNG

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#10 MatsT

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 07:10 AM

You should keep in mind though that what you want to find is not necessarily the value where the dps stops changing. The only thing you accomplish by changing this random fight length variable is introducing different effects from specific fight lengths. Just an example without proving anything is that if you have a 7 minute fight, you will be able to use feral spirits 3 times. With a variable fight length, once you start using fight lengths below 6:45 you will get less and less value out of Feral Spirits on average. This effect will continue to decrease dps until you start using fight lengths above 9 minutes, which should happen sometime around 28%. Bloodlust will also have an effect on this just as you mentioned, and probably any other cooldown spell.

I mean, once the variance gets high enough, isn't it quite close to running a 10000 hour simulation with a fight length of 10000 hours (Apart from haste pot usage...)? The point of the fight length variance is to make sure haste/weapon speed/whatever doesn't get an inflated value due to fitting in one more of a specific spell. A value much lower than 35% (previously suggested) or 43% (probably 5 or 10%) is more than enough for that. Anything else will just _change_ the dps output, not make it more correct or relevant.

#11 Nevets_69

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 08:43 AM

I thought the fight length variance was more to simulate different fights for different bosses.

Not every boss is the same length, and so a higher variance means that some simulations are at the middle 7min length, while some end up at 5, 6, 8 and 9 minutes. This gives us a nice average DPS that is independent of fight length, and allows us to sim our gear for ALL fights, rather than one specific case (ideal or otherwise).
Elemental Shaman: You're OOM.
Enhancement Shaman: So are you.

#12 Levva

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 10:24 AM

I meant in relation to the elemental totem as well as how it is difficult to model %-uptime of multiple targets in relation to chain lightning (i.e. there is no code yet to only use CL if target>2, though I know it is in the works).


We are adding code that will give a tick box - use MW5_CL if targets > 1. What this will do is when it checks MW5_LB if the priority is triggered (ie: you have 5 stacks of MW) and CL is available it will use CL instead of LB. Otherwise it will use LB as normal. This should be fairly intuitive as its what you do as a player, use CL if multi targets when you hit 5 stacks.

I agree with this most certainly. However, without a way to model chain lightning appropriately I have yet to start playing the with multiple target model. I think once that is figured out we can start to discuss it. Full single target models still do have their place though, especially those who can run with 2 enhancement specs.

I was simply just sharing some interesting results, especially given that in the previous model, having MT high up in the priority was a big deal. Additionally, many people refresh the totem (myself included) with 5-6 ticks left and the model is showing a much bigger difference (in the realm of 100-150 dps) for dropping the totem past 3 ticks.


The new setup is such that the model works IDENTICALLY if you set additional targets to zero. As such people doing "normal" modelling will have this at zero, people looking to study multi target fights can now play with that too. This should be a BIG step forward for the usability of the sim.


Carrying on from previous thread, can we have a test question in post two asking for test results of whether flametongue weapon should be considered spell damage for the purposes of triggering "on damaging spell" or "on spell cast" type trinkets.

Also need info on what
http://ptr.wowhead.com/?item=50362

Your attacks have a chance to awaken the powers of the races of Northrend, temporarily transforming you and increasing your combat capabilities for 30 sec.
actually does.
Author of ShockAndAwe Enhancement Shaman max dps addon
Please use the EnhSim by Ziff & others to simulate what gear, priorities etc are the best dps. You can use ShockAndAwe to export your paperdoll stats to EnhSim.

#13 Starfox

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 02:59 PM

Also need info on what

http://ptr.wowhead.com/?item=50362

Your attacks have a chance to awaken the powers of the races of Northrend, temporarily transforming you and increasing your combat capabilities for 30 sec.
actually does.

* Your attacks have a chance to awaken the powers of the races of Northrend,
    temporarily transforming you and increasing your combat capabilities for 
    30 sec.
    There are _6_ buffs associated to this proc:
    +600 Agi/Str/ArPen/Crit/Haste and +1200 AP (heroic: +700/+1400)
    Have to see if it is random or not at which buffs it procs.
Only thing I found out about it, because I can't seem to find anyone with this on PTR :(
Edit:
Uncategorized - Spells - World of Warcraft
Those are the buffs it procs
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#14 Deathicle

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 10:56 PM

In the newest version of EnhSim Beta (1.9.1.2) I am now getting best results dropping MT down again in priority and setting it to refresh at 1 tick. I am also getting more benefit with 2 points in reverb and no points in improved stormstrike, with only 1 in improved fire nova if you have 4 pc t9. Thought I would share my config and results (my current gear).

.......

edit: The difference if I take 2 points in reverb and put them in fire nova/improved stormstrike is ~25 dps


In your simulation, Fire Nova is way down on the priority list. In fact, you sim it as being cast only 3.96 times per minute for 200.31 dps, or 50.583 dps per cast. In comparison, Lava Lash was casts 6.4 times per minute for 290.87 dps, or 45.448 dps per cast. It seems to me that FN should be at least as high on the priority list as LL, if not much higher for multi target fights. Obviously with FN being so low on the priority list, you will not be getting the most benefit out of the talent!

#15 pintor

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 11:04 PM

In your simulation, Fire Nova is way down on the priority list. In fact, you sim it as being cast only 3.96 times per minute for 200.31 dps, or 50.583 dps per cast. In comparison, Lava Lash was casts 6.4 times per minute for 290.87 dps, or 45.448 dps per cast. It seems to me that FN should be at least as high on the priority list as LL, if not much higher for multi target fights. Obviously with FN being so low on the priority list, you will not be getting the most benefit out of the talent!


I simmed the highest dps I could single target. Moving FN up is a dps loss. I cannot explain it, but moving FN above LL results in a 30 dps loss.

Results with FN just above LL:

EnhSim version 1.9.1.2

................................................................................

MH:
miss                980226         7.15%
dodge               1334           0.01%
glancing            3286972        23.99%
hit                 1901193        13.88%
crit                7530221        54.97%
average ap          8143.26        
clip                57055          0.41%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          13.94%
procs/swings        13.06%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               420            0.01%
hit                 1705809        42.03%
crit                2352437        57.96%
average ap          8143.81        

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               160            0.01%
hit                 773999         42.13%
crit                1063130        57.86%
average ap          8137.05        

OH:
miss                981003         7.16%
dodge               1413           0.01%
glancing            3288126        24.00%
hit                 1901970        13.88%
crit                7528117        54.95%
average ap          8153.64        
clip                56553          0.41%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 9457230        58.12%
crit                6815941        41.88%
average sp          3046.48        

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               197            0.01%
hit                 772001         42.02%
crit                1064931        57.97%
average ap          8178.53        

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1038054        58.10%
crit                748631         41.90%
average sp          3042.70        

Flame Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 514606         58.14%
crit                370454         41.86%
average sp          3042.15        
dots hit            3088049        58.15%
dots crit           2222309        41.85%
average dot sp      3051.39        

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               197            0.01%
hit                 722809         42.07%
crit                995217         57.92%
average ap          8148.30        

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1568393        58.19%
crit                1127130        41.81%
average sp          3043.39        

Fire Nova:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 985151         58.10%
crit                710425         41.90%
average sp          3045.80        

Lightning Shield:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 3158894        100.00%
crit                0              0.00%
average sp          3049.27        

Spirit Wolves:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            2008404        24.03%
hit                 5391444        64.51%
crit                958124         11.46%
average ap          8160.85        

Magma Totem:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 4785758        58.12%
crit                3447867        41.88%
average sp          3045.53        

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 50.41

flurry uptime                  92.83%
unleashed rage uptime          0.00%
elemental devastation uptime   78.50%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              41.55%
oh enchant uptime              41.59%
searing totem uptime           0.00%
magma totem uptime             92.16%

trinket1 uptime                32.52%
trinket2 uptime                18.72%
racial uptime                  0.00%
totem uptime                   79.96%
metagem uptime                 0.00%
gloves enchant uptime          0.00%
cloak enchant uptime           26.76%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.00      0.00%
mp5                 17.81     8.85%
replenishment       43.76     21.74%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
judgement of wisdom 9.23      4.59%
shamanistic rage    130.44    64.82%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc                0.00      0.00%
stormstrike         0.00      0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               2674.05   32.16%    91.34
windfury            924.31    11.12%    6.76
flametongue         614.25    7.39%     54.24
stormstrike         402.27    4.84%     6.12      33.74     15.27%
lava lash           259.88    3.13%     5.73      12.39     5.60%
magma totem         585.46    7.04%     2.96      55.13     24.94%
earth shock         562.15    6.76%     5.96      26.12     11.82%
flame shock         405.70    4.88%     2.95      12.91     5.84%
lightning bolt      973.63    11.71%    8.99      55.22     24.99%
fire nova           286.38    3.44%     5.65      22.23     10.06%
lightning shield    317.95    3.82%     1.33      0.00      0.00%
spirit wolves       309.33    3.72%     0.40      3.28      1.48%

DPS                 8315.35
MPS                 221.00
MP2min              26519.90
MRPS                229.13
Out of mana time    0.56%

elapsed simulation time: 5000.00h
elapsed real time: 21.49s
simulation speed: 837637x

Moving FN up as well as MT, results in 8312. This is lower than the 8345 I showed earlier.

Edit: I thought perhaps it may be the lightning shield priority that could be confounding this. Perhaps lightning shield needs to be above FN. Moving LS above FN, and LL right below results in 8341 dps. So, obviously there is some interaction, but that is not the only thing going on here.

Edit #2: Playing around some more, I find that (normal priority)>ES>FN>MT>LS>LL>(normal again) provides the exact same dps (~8345), but again, keeping 2 points in reverb is still a dps gain over 2 in fire nova+1 improved SS.

#16 Nevets_69

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 01:43 AM

In your simulation, Fire Nova is way down on the priority list. In fact, you sim it as being cast only 3.96 times per minute for 200.31 dps, or 50.583 dps per cast. In comparison, Lava Lash was casts 6.4 times per minute for 290.87 dps, or 45.448 dps per cast. It seems to me that FN should be at least as high on the priority list as LL, if not much higher for multi target fights. Obviously with FN being so low on the priority list, you will not be getting the most benefit out of the talent!


I simmed the highest dps I could single target. Moving FN up is a dps loss. I cannot explain it, but moving FN above LL results in a 30 dps loss.


Deathicle's calculation are looking at the damage done by Lava Lash only, he isn't considering the extra damage from Flametongue on each Lava Lash cast. It's probably enough to make Lava Lash > Fire Nova for single target.

I remember testing this exact case when Fire Nova first made it onto the PTR. I found that Fire Nova is actually more damage than LL+FT, but by a small margin. So if you consider the massive amounts of mana it takes to cast Fire Nova, I figured I'd stick to LL for single target, but if there's even 1 extra target to hit, then FN is better.
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#17 Rouncer

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 02:43 AM

Even if you include FT damage with the LL damage you are neglecting the 37% of a MW charge and the 6% of a static shock proc that also comes with LL's melee hit. Which is why it is more damage then FN when there is only one target.

Fire Nova's still a button that will be worth pressing if there is nothing else to press and it will be just about your highest priority button to press when there are more then ~2 other things that can be hit by it. So it seems Blizzard did get it right, kudos to them and color me very happy and very impressed.
-------------------------

Back on subject.

What setup should we use to try and quantify ToC? This should be a percentage and a number based on an average of the amount of additional targets being hit per unit time in the actual encounters. We won't be able to put it into full use until the next model of the sim when we'll have an option to have it switch to CL instead of LB when there are more things to hit. However it will be well worth working out how to quantify raid encounters and even raid instances so we can maximize what we can get out of the sim and through that maximize what we can do in those encounters.

Once we have something workable for ToC we should be ready to start in on ICC but I would suggest, for now, that we focus on ToGC-25 just because we already know those encounters well enough to verify the solutions but the information gleaned will still be useful. When ICC opens then we can start working them out on an encounter by encounter basis at first and then adding them together to give an average config to use for gearing purposes.

#18 Nevets_69

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 03:34 AM

Fight by fight breakdown:

Northrend Beasts:
Gormok: 1 target only (AoE won't hit the Snobolds)
Worms: 2 targets (if your guild groups them together)
Icehowl: 1 target

Jaraxxus:
From my guilds most recent TotGC clear.
Portals and volcanoes die pretty much instantly, so lets ignore them.
Mistress of pain (x1) lives for about 20s of every 2min (15% uptime, little less while she jumps to someone)
Fel Infernal (x3) first one dies about 20s after spawning (assume 2 are in range of FN for that 20s)
Gives us x2 mobs for 20s of every 2min (15% uptime, fudgeable cause they move so much)
That means that you have Jaraxxus+1 for about 37% of the fight (or possibly Jaraxxus+1.5 for 30%)

Faction Champions:
75% reduced damage on AoE effects, not worth using for breaking CC (my opinion only)

Twin Valkyr:
Assuming you stack the bosses, you get +50% dmg on primary target and -50% on off target.
Effectively giving you 1.25 targets for the entire fight.

Anub'arak:
From my guild's TotGC clear we can see there is about 20s of the 90s that Anub'arak is above ground that there are no adds for AoE.
That gives Anub+4 for 75% of the DPS time on Anub. (There's probably another 10s after Anub burrows where we finish off the 4 adds)


I know this is just a summary of what we already know. I'm not 100% sure what format you were looking for, so I just took a stab at it. If you're looking for something else, I'd be willing to take some time and work it out any way that is convenient for implementation.
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#19 Rouncer

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 04:40 AM

Format should be based on the new multi-target config settings.

So according to your post,
Twins would be just 1 Add 100% uptime (ignore fight mechanics like the auras since they aren't simmable)
Jaraxxus would be 2 Adds 15% uptime
etc

Then we would want to work up an average config for the entire zone including an average duration (which only really count time in combat, so for something like Anub we would want to ignore the submerge phases) we could use to represent the entire zone. Fights would be to work on figuring out priorities and mana conservation and the entire zone would be for gearing/gemming/BiS calculations.

#20 Nevets_69

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 08:13 AM

Alright, I think I understand what you're looking for now.

Northrend Beasts
Total 7:10 (430s)
Gormok 2:05 (125s) 29% 1 tar
Worms 2:29 (149s) 35% 2 tar
Icehowl 2:36 (156s) 36% 1 tar

Average Boss+1 @ 35%


Jaraxxus
Total 4:25 (265s)
Mistress 20s/120 15% 1 add
Infernal 20s/120 15% 2 add

Average Boss+1 @ 45% (I worked this out, if you want to see the explanation I can post it)


Twins
Total 3:29 (209s)
Boss+1 @ 100%


Anub'arak
Phase 1 x2 1:30 (90s)
Phase 3 3:06 (186s)
Total 6:06 (366s)

adds are up 75% of the time Anub is above ground

Boss+4 @ 75%


Using a weighted average to work out the zone as a whole results in:
Average Duration 5:17 (317)
Boss+1 @ 124% (The higher percentage is to account for 4 adds on Anub)
Boss+2 @ 62% (this is equivalent, in case uptime cannot be >100%)


Also, something to keep in mind, when working out optimal rotations, the player won't cast an AoE rotation when there's only one boss. So when testing priority, always test with 100% add uptime; we could even find different priorities depending on how many mobs there are (+1,2,3).
To work out the BiS list however, should try to aggregate all of Icecrown as Rouncer suggested; I know I personally have no intention of building separate sets for AoE and single target fights.

Addendum: All this was done using "napkin math", and fight lengths were pulled from my guilds TotGC clear last week. A more thorough derivation should be done using average fight lengths. If anyone is interested in seeing my calculations, I'd be happy to show you. It's all just simple averaging, and my spreadsheet is just a glorified calculator (and a mess).
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