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EnhSim updated thread


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#21 pintor

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 08:35 AM

Also, something to keep in mind, when working out optimal rotations, the player won't cast an AoE rotation when there's only one boss. So when testing priority, always test with 100% add uptime; we could even find different priorities depending on how many mobs there are (+1,2,3).
To work out the BiS list however, should try to aggregate all of Icecrown as Rouncer suggested; I know I personally have no intention of building separate sets for AoE and single target fights.


It might be fruitful then to have EnhSim be able to choose from several priorities based on what is going on (i.e. priority 1 50% of the time for single target, priority 2 for the 30% of the time when 1 add is present, priority 3 20% when 4 adds are up [made up numbers]). I am not sure how difficult this would be to implement. I will mention this on the EnhSim discussion.

#22 Rouncer

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 03:28 PM

Let's keep discussion of things to implement or change in EnhSim over here. Issues should still be brought up, in ticket form, over there but lets keep actual discussion to a single forum.

That said, we've been talking about that exact thing already and the developers are just determining the best way to implement it into the sim. Currently the plan is to try and implement a second priority list that will go active whenever the sim adds in multiple targets and then it will go to the standard priority list whenever there is only one target.

#23 pintor

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 08:10 PM

by request:

I did some crude calculations using 100% uptime on boss+0 and boss+2 and then used Nevet's calculations in the EnhSim thread (62% +2 adds, 38% single target) to look at average dps. I used the following config (my current gear), just changed the totem for AoE (used QE instead of EW, as it is likely enough we could swap totems mid-fight):

### Saved by v1.9.1.2 of EnhSimGUI

config_version                  1.9.1.2
simulation_time                 5000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   7.00
report_count                    80
threads                         1
combat_length_rng_factor        0.35
min_lag                         200
max_lag                         250
simulate_mana                   1
cast_sr_on_cooldown             0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    3
cast_magma_only_if_ticks_left   1
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       15000
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    0

rotation_priority_count         13
rotation_priority1              SW
rotation_priority2              FS
rotation_priority3              MW5_LB
rotation_priority4              ES_SS
rotation_priority5              SS
rotation_priority6              ES
rotation_priority7              FN
rotation_priority8              MT
rotation_priority9              LS
rotation_priority10             LL
rotation_priority11             SR
rotation_priority12             MW3_LB
rotation_priority13             MW4_LB

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10643
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0
additional_targets              0
additional_target_percent       50.0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          687/687
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   51/51
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1
mixology                        0

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          potion_of_speed
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          196.5
oh_dps                          196.5
mh_crit                         38.31
oh_crit                         38.31
mh_hit                          12.84
oh_hit                          12.84
mh_expertise_rating             139
oh_expertise_rating             139
ap                              5037
melee_haste                     15.30
armor_penetration               12.79
str                             147
agi                             1187
int                             683
spi                             172
spellpower                      1511
spell_crit                      27.70
spell_hit                       15.05
spell_haste                     11.77
max_mana                        15000
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       axe
oh_weapon                       axe

trinket1                        deaths_verdict
trinket2                        shard_of_the_crystal_heart

totem                           totem_of_electrifying_wind

set_bonus1                      t9_battlegear_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         41285

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   swordguard_embroidery

glyph_major1                    feral_spirit
glyph_major2                    flame_shock
glyph_major3                    stormstrike

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                1/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            0/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   2/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
improved_fire_nova              1/2
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5

Single target priority: SW>FS>MW5_LB>ES_SS>ES>SS>ES>FN>MT>LS>LL>SR>MW3_LB>MW4_LB (totem: EW)
Multiple target priority: SW>FS>FN>MT>MW5_CL>SS_0>ES_SS>SS>ES>LS>LL>SR>MW_3CL>MW_4CL (totem: QE)

In the +2 reverb spec (with 0/2 in improved SS and 1/2 fire nova):

Single target: 8346.07
Boss+2: 10334.21

Weighted average: 9578.72

In the 0/5 reverb spec (1/2 imp SS and 2/2 fire nova):

Single target: 8328.24
Boss+2: 10671.78

Weighted average: 9781.31

The big difference seems to be (as expected) mana, as out of mana time shoots right up on aoe without 1/2 improved SS (2.54% compared to 0.82% on the aoe sim). This may also change if the fire elemental is able to be implemented into the sim and we are not as mana starved for portions of the fight. However, this is a nice indication that for ToGC a more aoe-centric spec may be desired.

#24 Levva

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 10:49 PM

We need some more numbers for Fire Elemental current data is

Swing: 180 + 0.6 * SP + ( 2.0 / 14 ) * AP
Blast: ( 725 to 825 ) + 0.2 * SP
Nova: ( 925-1050 ) + 0.5 * SP
Shield: 96 + 0.015 * SP
Base Mana: 4000 + 15(0.3 * Int)

(1) there is a 5sec CD for Fire Nova
(2) While Fire Nova may be a 2sec cast, the elemental never does anything 0.5sec after the cast is over..... so I have chosen to effectively model it as a 2.5sec cast
(3) Fire Blast also seems to have a 5sec CD
(4) There is no clear priority list. If both FB and FN are off cooldown, it seems random which one is picked
(5) Swing time is 2sec and un-modified by any haste effects
(6) If FB or FN will come off CD in less than 2sec, the Elemental will often just wait instead of trying to get in another melee swing. I haven't yet determined the crossover point yet.
(7) FN costs 207 mana and FB costs 276 mana
(8) The elemental has 4k base mana and inherits 30% of master's intellect, gaining 15 mana per intellect
(9) When out of the five-second-rule it gains 10.66 mana per second


What is its crit chance? Is its melee crit chance the same as the spell crit chance?

What crit buffs does it benefit from (assume no direct buffing)? I'm currently assuming that it benefits from the same buffs as the wolves, but of course they are melee and Elemental is mostly spell damage.

What is the actual CD on Fire Blast (its being modelled as 4 seconds in Simulation craft)?

How often does its shield proc? Can it crit?

It appears that its melee attacks can crit and are subject to glancing blows, is it affected by dodge? If so is this in relation to Shaman's expertise? In same manner as wolves?

Fire Nova & Fire Blast are both fire damage are they affected by Call of Flame talent ie: are the elemental's casts considered a totem and therefore gets CoF bonus damage?
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#25 Levva

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 04:37 PM

EnhSim v1.9.2.0 released for patch 3.3

Download from EnhSim - Release: v1.9.2.0

ChangeLog

SimChanges
SpellCast & SpellCrit triggers no longer ignore FireNova casts
Talisman of Volatile Power now triggers on Spell Cast not on Spell Damage
Changed Fire Nova to allow cast when MT or ST are not in the rotation (ie. there is 5 min fire totem up)
Added necrotic touch proc (added this as yet another option in config and gui)
Necrotic Touch does not deal shadow damage yet. This is implemented as physical damage for now. Will change as soon as the rest of the info comes available
Added option to cast cl instead of lb when additional targets are in range
Implemented the aoe block calculation, sim now picks a random point in time for the aoe (duration depends on additionaltargetpercent)
Improved the aoe calculations for fn/mt and cl to better work with proc talents like elemental devastation
Fixed the Stormstrike usage of cl when hitting multiple targets
Added a new aoe class for these changes
Added a additionaltargetlevel in the aoe class (feature nyi)

GUI Changes
display item names rather than ids. Added for enchants, gems, totems and trinkets
Added "additional procs" list box for other items that may need to be modelled from weapons/items that are not totems or trinkets. Converted necrotic touch to use the box
Formatting and code cleanup. Please try to use the existing regions when adding new functions to the code.
Removed web browser.
Added links menu. Feel free to add suggestions or just insert new items.
Moved "use SR as soon as available" to the rotation tab as it seemed more appropriate there.
Fixed issue with the GUI holding onto file handles too long. Added dispose calls for the StreamReader objects.
Added warning if minimum lag values set too low.
Updated gui to have a checkbox for cl instead of lb (under boss tab, with other aoe settings)
Added web links for Rawr & EJ forum thread
Author of ShockAndAwe Enhancement Shaman max dps addon
Please use the EnhSim by Ziff & others to simulate what gear, priorities etc are the best dps. You can use ShockAndAwe to export your paperdoll stats to EnhSim.

#26 Shammiewow

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 07:28 PM

I downloaded the new beta 1.9.2.0, and I'm sorry to report that variability is back. I tried running it from a clean config file, importing my stats from Rawr, and got results of 6879, 6881, 6880, 6939, and then 6881. I kept running it, and it seems like about once in every five runs or so, I get an odd one. I just got one that was 6965.

I am attaching my config file for your reference.

### Saved by v1.9.2.0 of EnhSimGUI

config_version                  1.9.2.0
simulation_time                 5000
simulation_time_combatlog       300
combat_length                   10.00
report_count                    80
threads                         1
combat_length_rng_factor        0.35
min_lag                         200
max_lag                         300
simulate_mana                   1
cast_sr_on_cooldown             0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           80
ep_crit_rating                  40
ep_hit_rating                   40
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 40
ep_armor_penetration_rating     40
ep_spellpower                   46
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         600
ep_spirit                       40
ep_mp5                          40

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_magma_only_if_ticks_left   0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       1250
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000
necrotic_touch                  0

rotation_priority_count         12
rotation_priority1              SW
rotation_priority2              SR
rotation_priority3              MW5_LB
rotation_priority4              FS
rotation_priority5              SS_0
rotation_priority6              ES_SS
rotation_priority7              SS
rotation_priority8              ES
rotation_priority9              MT
rotation_priority10             LS
rotation_priority11             LL
rotation_priority12             MW4_LB

miss                            8.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        24.00
armor                           10643
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

additional_targets              0
additional_target_percent       25.00
cast_cl_when_aoe                1

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          687/687
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   51/51
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1
mixology                        1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          178.8
oh_dps                          171.5
mh_crit                         39.89
oh_crit                         39.89
mh_hit                          11.28
oh_hit                          11.28
mh_expertise_rating             154
oh_expertise_rating             154
ap                              4104
melee_haste                     10.70
armor_penetration               5.79
str                             151
agi                             1028
int                             679
spi                             171
spellpower                      1231
spell_crit                      30.91
spell_hit                       14.10
spell_haste                     8.23
max_mana                        14301
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       fist
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        corens_chromium_coaster
trinket2                        wrathstone

totem                           totem_of_electrifying_wind

set_bonus1                      worldbreaker_battlegear_2
set_bonus2                      t9_battlegear_2
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    flame_shock
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    windfury_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             5/5
improved_shields                1/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               0/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
improved_fire_nova              2/2
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5


#27 Ryethe

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 10:23 PM

Try reducing your combat time to 7 minutes or remove variance completely. Do you still see an issue? With combat time at 10 minutes any variance will allow for second heroism casts to occur which I could see greatly skewing the data.

#28 Ryethe

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Posted 04 December 2009 - 12:16 AM

I did some Black Bruise testing to compare it to Stormpike Cleaver (I probably should have chosen Remorseless but this was the quickest way for me to test this without having to regem some stuff):
Stormpike Cleaver
DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               2743.89   32.46%    86.24
windfury            1063.96   12.59%    7.08
flametongue         620.02    7.34%     52.25
stormstrike         449.89    5.32%     6.22      34.26     14.54%
lava lash           334.61    3.96%     6.89      18.99     8.06%
magma totem         619.25    7.33%     3.05      56.70     24.05%
earth shock         660.10    7.81%     6.69      43.23     18.34%
flame shock         339.09    4.01%     3.02      18.41     7.81%
lightning bolt      952.85    11.27%    8.32      60.92     25.84%
lightning shield    349.38    4.13%     1.39      0.00      0.00%
spirit wolves       319.46    3.78%     0.39      3.20      1.36%

DPS                 8452.49
MPS                 235.72
MP2min              28286.97
MRPS                240.51
Out of mana time    0.01%

elapsed simulation time: 5000.00h
elapsed real time: 13.77s
simulation speed: 1307094x

I then edited the Stormpike Cleaver in RAWR so that it had the same stats as Black Bruise and then checked off the Black Bruise proc in EnhSim:
DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               2859.99   33.3%     84.73
windfury            1136.98   13.24%    7.02
flametongue         594.81    6.93%     50.99
stormstrike         482.48    5.62%     6.22      34.26     14.64%
lava lash           356.48    4.15%     6.90      19.01     8.13%
magma totem         609.27    7.09%     3.05      56.71     24.23%
earth shock         643.17    7.49%     6.63      42.81     18.30%
flame shock         337.57    3.93%     3.05      18.64     7.96%
lightning bolt      912.93    10.63%    8.10      59.38     25.37%
lightning shield    336.09    3.91%     1.36      0.00      0.00%
spirit wolves       317.58    3.7%      0.39      3.20      1.37%

DPS                 8587.34
MPS                 234.01
MP2min              28080.80
MRPS                236.81
Out of mana time    0.01%

elapsed simulation time: 5000.00h
elapsed real time: 14.54s
simulation speed: 1238049x

Consider that this is currently implemented as PHYSICAL damage in the sim it should only get better once we make it ignore boss armor and be affected by things such as CoE debuffs.

Perhaps the sim has mis implemented something but it appears we grossly underestimated this buff.

Levva: In the sim does Necrotic Touch proc off MH and OH hits or just MH hits?

#29 Levva

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Posted 04 December 2009 - 12:51 AM

I did some Black Bruise testing to compare it to Stormpike Cleaver (I probably should have chosen Remorseless but this was the quickest way for me to test this without having to regem some stuff):

Consider that this is currently implemented as PHYSICAL damage in the sim it should only get better once we make it ignore boss armor and be affected by things such as CoE debuffs.

Perhaps the sim has mis implemented something but it appears we grossly underestimated this buff.

Levva: In the sim does Necrotic Touch proc off MH and OH hits or just MH hits?


We don't need it tested in the sim we need it tested on the PTR.

How do you know it ignores boss armour in game?
How do you know its affected by CoE buffs?
We don't know if it procs off MH or OH we need someone to test and tell us.

Basic napkin math theorycrafting suggests that its 1% proc is way way too low to make it viable, hence the sim reflects the current known information. If testers ie: people who aren't up to their eyes trying to actually code stuff for the sim, can get on with testing and provide results we can get on with implementing those findings in the next version of the sim.

As I see it the development team have a pact with you guys. We'll provide the sim for you to test things if you provide us with the raw data we need to code. That means reading the 2nd post in this thread seeing what data we need and going out there and doing some testing.

I don't do this testing myself as there is seriously not enough hours in the day to work, actually play the game, code changes to Rawr & EnhSim, moderate MMO-Champion Shaman forum AND do testing of things on the PTR. So I and others NEED your help. That's why we constantly update the 2nd post in this thread with new things we need testing. So you guys can make the sim better by testing stuff and providing the results so we can code that in the sim.
Author of ShockAndAwe Enhancement Shaman max dps addon
Please use the EnhSim by Ziff & others to simulate what gear, priorities etc are the best dps. You can use ShockAndAwe to export your paperdoll stats to EnhSim.

#30 Ryethe

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Posted 04 December 2009 - 05:51 AM

We don't need it tested in the sim we need it tested on the PTR.

How do you know it ignores boss armour in game?
How do you know its affected by CoE buffs?
We don't know if it procs off MH or OH we need someone to test and tell us.


When has spell damage ever been mitigated by armor? When has spell damage ever not been affected by CoE? All I'm saying is that these are safe assumptions as Blizzard would have to code a new type of special shadow damage that was mitigated by armor and not affected by CoE. Coding it this way in the sim is a safe bet as all evidence in the past has supported it. Procs from weapons have always been based on hits from that weapon itself.

While yes we should see what these things are like IN GAME, I see nothing wrong with making what are safe assumptions and then altering those assumptions if they turn out wrong. At least people can get a ball park figure for when this stuff actually drops.

#31 pintor

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Posted 04 December 2009 - 08:10 AM

Weighted Averages and Fire Nova Glyph

First of all, going through my guilds logs for recent ToGCs, I am finding that for us, the average uptime of Boss+2 is very similar to what Nevets_69 has said. For the 3 relevant fights that my guild can do, plus using his calculations for Anub heroic (since we are only still working on phase 3), I find a Boss+2 uptime of 59% (Nevets suggests 62%). This will be different for each guild of course, but it is encouraging that the numbers are close. Here is one of those reports for the first 4 bosses (ignore faction champs, it was a very funny kill and not relevant): World of Logs-Report.

Now, back to the topic, I believe (until multiple priorities are available for testing) using these weighted averages can give us a good indication of what to expect as an "overall" indication of how we should perform in ToGC. This can help us spec and glyph for the overall encounter (though likely some boss fights we will still glyph with that encounter in mind).

So, using the weighted averages and the config/rotations I linked in this post (except updated to v1.9.2.0), I looked into the viability of the fire nova glyph compared to the flame shock glyph (my current 3rd best glyph).

To be clear, I used the weighted average put forth by Nevets, 62% of the time we are fighting Boss+2 adds, 38% single target.

For the flame shock glyph:
Boss+2: 11,305.60
Boss+0: 8,360.51

Weighted Average: 10,186.47

For the fire nova glyph:
Boss+2: 11,535.43
Boss+0: 8,283.13

Weighted Average: 10,299.56

Please note, these results are what works for my current set up, since we do not currently have an agreed upon BiS set-up. Also note these are 10 simulation averages, though I found little to no variability.

Edit: The only thing I do not understand is why AoE went up so much from the last version. That aside, when I sim them in the previous version, the difference is 82 dps in favour of the fire nova glyph, versus the 113 in the current beta.

#32 Levva

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Posted 04 December 2009 - 10:07 AM

When has spell damage ever been mitigated by armor? When has spell damage ever not been affected by CoE? All I'm saying is that these are safe assumptions as Blizzard would have to code a new type of special shadow damage that was mitigated by armor and not affected by CoE. Coding it this way in the sim is a safe bet as all evidence in the past has supported it. Procs from weapons have always been based on hits from that weapon itself.

While yes we should see what these things are like IN GAME, I see nothing wrong with making what are safe assumptions and then altering those assumptions if they turn out wrong. At least people can get a ball park figure for when this stuff actually drops.


Indeed. However with Necrotic touch it needs some testing. How does the "additional 9% damage" work out. If its 9% of the damage your melee attack did then that's already been reduced by armour and so 9% of whatever the melee damage is has already been affected by all the melee multipliers. Is that how it works?? Or is it 9% of the base damage range of the weapon? That would be really low, so perhaps being shadow damage its affected by spellpower? If so what's it co-efficient?

What buffs is it affected by is it affected by melee buffs and it's 9% of the total damage the weapon lands? Or is it base weapon damage and affected by any spellpower/spell damage buffs?

Can it crit? If it can what is the crit rate? The melee crit rate? The spell crit rate?

Perhaps my original questions seemed too obvious. Do these questions make it clearer that its NOT a simple proposition to work out how to model Necrotic touch.

Weighted Averages and Fire Nova Glyph

Now, back to the topic, I believe (until multiple priorities are available for testing) using these weighted averages can give us a good indication of what to expect as an "overall" indication of how we should perform in ToGC. This can help us spec and glyph for the overall encounter (though likely some boss fights we will still glyph with that encounter in mind).

So, using the weighted averages and the config/rotations I linked in this post (except updated to v1.9.2.0), I looked into the viability of the fire nova glyph compared to the flame shock glyph (my current 3rd best glyph).

To be clear, I used the weighted average put forth by Nevets, 62% of the time we are fighting Boss+2 adds, 38% single target.

Please note, these results are what works for my current set up, since we do not currently have an agreed upon BiS set-up. Also note these are 10 simulation averages, though I found little to no variability.

Edit: The only thing I do not understand is why AoE went up so much from the last version. That aside, when I sim them in the previous version, the difference is 82 dps in favour of the fire nova glyph, versus the 113 in the current beta.


Can you clarify the weighted averages. Are you doing Boss +2 at 100% duration and Boss +0 at 100% duration? Then weighting the averages? If so is this only due to the inability to specify changed priorities? As you could just do Boss +2 at 38%.

NB. v1.9.2.0 has support for using CL instead of LB during the +2 phase when CL is off cooldown. That might account for the increase in AoE damage in this version.
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#33 pintor

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Posted 04 December 2009 - 10:28 AM

Can you clarify the weighted averages. Are you doing Boss +2 at 100% duration and Boss +0 at 100% duration? Then weighting the averages? If so is this only due to the inability to specify changed priorities? As you could just do Boss +2 at 38%.

NB. v1.9.2.0 has support for using CL instead of LB during the +2 phase when CL is off cooldown. That might account for the increase in AoE damage in this version.


I am doing both at 100% duration for that exact reason, and then taking the weighted average. The priorities are quite different for AoE and single target as I noted earlier, so I felt this was the most accurate way I could do it currently. When we can use 2 priorities we can do Boss+2 at 62% duration.

#34 Rouncer

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Posted 04 December 2009 - 02:08 PM

Based on the language of the proc for Black Bruise this is how we should assume it works.

Item - Icecrown 25 Normal Slow Melee Weapon Proc
Your weapon swings have a chance to grant you Necrotic Touch for 10 sec, causing all your melee attacks to deal an additional 9% damage as shadow damage.


1. 9% of all melee damage, after mitigation, including raid buffs and debuffs. "All your melee attacks" should mean it would include melee specials, mainhand and offhand hits. It should also include Lava Lash damage since that is calculated as melee damage. It should be calculated only off of the actual damage occurring when the weapon lands.

2. Procs should occur off of hits from both mainhand and offhand white hits and include specials that count as weapon swings. Those being Stormstrike, Lava Lash and Windfury.

3. Run the damage separately in the sim from melee damage to make it easier to verify once people start playing with it and have it be affected by any raid buff/debuff that affects spell damage (CoE and Sanctified Retribution - it would be double dipping on the latter). Run on the assumption that the shadow damage can not crit nor can it miss and that it won't be affected by spell resistances.

Things that need confirmation and remaining questions. Does it proc from specials? Does it proc from offhand white hits/specials? Do offhand hits and specials also gain additional shadow damage? Can the shadow damage crit? Does the shadow damage benefit from raid buffs like CoE? How does it work with absorption? Can it be resisted?


Testing procedures when someone gets one.

1. Sideways to dummy to disable autoattack, no weapon imbues. Stormstrike 200 times or until you get a proc.
2. Sideways to dummy to disable autoattack, no weapon imbues. Lava Lash 200 times or until you get a proc.
3. Submit a WoL parse of 10 minutes of attacking a dummy with a full rotation with just totem buffs.
4. Get someone to apply CoE to a dummy and parse at least one full proc duration so we can see how it is being affected by the debuff.

#35 Shammiewow

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Posted 04 December 2009 - 05:45 PM

Try reducing your combat time to 7 minutes or remove variance completely. Do you still see an issue? With combat time at 10 minutes any variance will allow for second heroism casts to occur which I could see greatly skewing the data.


Not sure what is going on, but with the latest build (1.9.2.1), the variance in my results is back down to a very manageable 1-2 dps.

Next time it happens, I'll try to examine the detailed DPS analysis to see what is changing.

#36 Ayros

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 02:08 PM

I just tested new EnhSim bet version (1.9.2.1) and it gave me really strange results. After 6 simulations with the same config it showed more than 600 DPS diference. Here http://img41.imagesh...37/86477241.jpg is picture so you can see it for yourself

Simulation time was 5000h
Combat length was 7 min
variation was 35%
I had 2 additional targets with 50% uptime, and selected cast CL when additional are in range

And it didn't change anything if I lowered variance to 0

It looks like CL and MT totems DPS varied the most

#37 Levva

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 02:43 PM

I just tested new EnhSim bet version (1.9.2.1) and it gave me really strange results. After 6 simulations with the same config it showed more than 600 DPS diference. Here http://img41.imagesh...37/86477241.jpg is picture so you can see it for yourself

Simulation time was 5000h
Combat length was 7 min
variation was 35%
I had 2 additional targets with 50% uptime, and selected cast CL when additional are in range

And it didn't change anything if I lowered variance to 0

It looks like CL and MT totems DPS varied the most


Sorry that amount of info is meaningless. You need to post your config.txt file. Please use the Issue tracker at EnhSim - Issue Tracker not this thread.
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#38 Rouncer

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 03:40 PM

I wrote up a ticket about the issue - seems to be that the block of time randomly assigned as AoE can have it's start time placed so that it's duration would go over the total time specified for the encounter.

For now, please limit testing to either 0% or 100% for multiple target conditions and the simulator will give accurate results as expected.

#39 Levva

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 11:52 AM

That issue should now be fixed Rouncer.

Version 1.9.3.0 of EnhSim Released

EnhSim - Release: V1.9.3.0 Release (patch 3.3)

See link for substantial changelog from last release v1.8.5.2.
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#40 Levva

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Posted 09 December 2009 - 12:18 AM

Reminder for readers to keep checking the first two posts in this thread for updated info. In particular now patch 3.3 is live we NEED test data to update the sims with.

See http://elitistjerks....ad/#post1474854 for a list of what is needed.
Author of ShockAndAwe Enhancement Shaman max dps addon
Please use the EnhSim by Ziff & others to simulate what gear, priorities etc are the best dps. You can use ShockAndAwe to export your paperdoll stats to EnhSim.




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