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End game content: PVE / PVP guilds

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#1 Vazu


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Posted 11 September 2006 - 08:41 AM

Looking for some input from this community..

As a guild, we've been able to clear BWL, AQ40 (we're on the Emps), and we're stalled in Naxx, primarily due to attendance issues. We have BWL firmly on farm status. We clear it in well under 5 hours every Tuesday night. The issue we're running into is people simply not showing up for Wednesday/Thursday night raids, when we're in either AQ40 or Naxx. Everyone loves guaranteed loot from BWL, but it seems like those with schedule issues or fair weather raiders don't show up for our progression raid nights in other instances. We're hoping to solve this issue by simply not announcing which day of the week we'll be running BWL. It sucks for people with legitimate RL scheduling issues, who want to complete tier 2 sets, but this guild is looking for progression. We've been killing Nefarion for the past 3 months. So let me start by asking,

What would you suggest we do to help with attendance issues?

Lastly, we are a PVP guild who happen to PVE. For those of you who have no idea what that looks like, it means we have a very solid group(s) running WSG/AB for 8+ hours/day. When that gets repetative, we'll take 20+ people down to the STV arena, and setup matches. We really take pride in our game and most (80%) of us are interested in PVP first and PVE second. For our first Nefarion kill, we used an MS Warrior (0 points in protection) who we've designated as our MT. Now that we're in AQ40 & Naxx, two of our very well geared (8/8 Wrath and 7/8 Wrath) tanks have opted for a 31 pt. build and a 15 pt. build to pickup Defiance. Most of our Rogues are some form of PVP-daggers or combat swords. We have one combat dagger Rogue. Many of our Priests do not have the full Inspiration talent and groan at the idea of respeccing when we do attempt Patchwerk. The good news is, our Paladins and Druids are mostly some form of Holy or Restoration. They know their role in group PVP and their spec isn't an issue for PVE.

I'm concerned that eventually, we may reach a progression wall, especially with only two real protection Warriors and a few decently geared (for tanking) DPS Warriors. I'm looking for some input as we make some changes this week to our schedule. For those with experience on C'Thun & Naxx end-wing bosses, can you see us having some real issues which might make us re-evaluate whether our guild is serious enough about finishing AQ40 and progressing in Naxx?

Thanks a lot for reading.

#2 sp00n


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Posted 11 September 2006 - 09:37 AM

If you can take down the emps, you won't run into spec problems for C'Thun.
This fight is all about execution and not so much about gear or spec.

Naxxramas is complete different story.
You won't survive Maexxna's enrage web spray without a decent geared tank and good dps and most importantly, you will hardly survive any Patchwerk attempt without 3 prot tanks (pref 4) and very good dps.
Therefore, the first few bosses in Nax are quite easy and don't require specific specs. But the further you proceed, the more will you need PvE only specs to successfully beat the encounters.
So I guess yes, you will be running into a wall on certain bosses.

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#3 Mosh


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Posted 11 September 2006 - 09:53 AM

What would you suggest we do to help with attendance issues?

1. Goals. Make sure everyone wants the same thing. If you have 20 people who want to kill Kel'thuzad and 20 people who wouldn't mind doing that but would prefer PvP'ing, you're gonna have a guild collapse coming up.
2. Skip BWL for a couple of weeks, without announcing for how long. That'll make the people who only show for BWL either quit or reconsider, and you're better off either way.

#4 Krill


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Posted 11 September 2006 - 10:00 AM

To be honest, AQ40 is hard to bear if your guild is not goal-focused ("We have to kill another digital monster"). Bosses up to Twins rarely provide anything radically better then you get from BWL and topped with "I have to collect my set" approach it leads to underestimating loot value.

Good idea for a start to improve attendace is telling people that you see it as a problem. Basically making them goal-focused (if it's possible at all). Because killing boss for first time is fun. Learning encounter is fun. Seeing new content is fun. Isn't it?

If they don't find high end PvE fun (and see it only as a way to obtain PvP gear), then you just have to accept it and have slower pace of PvE progress. Eventually, your gear will fill the gaps from non-PvE builds or simply extra levels from TBC will make whole problem obsolete.

#5 Oneiros


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Posted 11 September 2006 - 11:15 AM

You basically have two options imo:

1) Recruit people who care and will show up.

2) Make the gmotd say "40 man raid 6pm Tues-Friday". If 40 people show up Tuesday, go to AQ. If 40 people show up Wednesday, do AQ40. On the days where you get ~35, do BWL.
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#6 Z-Factor


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Posted 11 September 2006 - 11:43 AM

one thing my brother's guild Alpha Omega on Zenedar-EU does is list a raid as TBA. What this means is, people sign for it but don't know whether they are doing MC, BWL or AQ40. The result has been that they always fill raids as people are always online.

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