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WotLK Healing Compendium v3.3: Arthas' downfall!


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#21 WildWill

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 11:27 AM

I can't believe I missed this before but this is just plain misleading. You can't call something a hard haste cap when doing so involves casting another spell which consumes a GCD. With the enormous stat inflation these days 11% haste can be achieved with as little as 3-4 pieces of gear, and people who reads this and takes it the wrong way will start passing on obvious upgrades because it puts them way past the supposed "hard haste cap". This statement only applies to disc priests whose only job is to bubble spam (lol?)

Nobody seems to realize that bubble spam is by far the most inefficient use of a healer spot in a raid environment with very few exceptions, most of which was back in Ulduar where predictable large damage spikes was safer to prevent as opposed to healing through (Ground Tremor, Shockwave, Black Hole Explosion, Tympanic Tantrum, etc). The nature of this type of damage allows a disc priest to take advantage of rapture to at least mass bubbling efficient. In this day and age where tanks are the ones who run the risk of going 100-0 in 2-3 swings, discipline buffs are far more useful on a tank than on a raid.

Until disc priests damage reduction tools gets nerfed to the floor, it is still primarily a tank healer. This means stacking as much throughput stats as possible (spellpower, haste, crit)


Agreed, i only ever use in specific fights where predictable damage is coming. Ie Kologan in VoA before he does his flame breath. Other than that, i might throw a bubble at a dps who might take damage soon to get the borrowed time buff if it isnt up already.

#22 Dieselam

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 12:29 PM

I would like to challenge the idea that stacking spellpower as a disc priest is the best. I have stacked int for mana, mp5 and crit. It seems I am able to do more healing wth bubble spaming and dont run out of mana as other healers did in our icc10 run (without a replenishment) and DP procs all the time. Comparing it with togc I could spam bubbles through out the who fight and woudl come close but not go oom. Where if I had stacked sp I would have gone oom.
In my opinion having the mana to bubble spam is better as the bubble prevents the damage not heal after the damage has been taken.

#23 sfxsfx

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 01:14 PM

Hi, anyone can provide some math for this:

vs vs

Thanks!

#24 itsmekp

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 03:29 PM

I would like to challenge the idea that stacking spellpower as a disc priest is the best. I have stacked int for mana, mp5 and crit. It seems I am able to do more healing wth bubble spaming and dont run out of mana as other healers did in our icc10 run (without a replenishment) and DP procs all the time. Comparing it with togc I could spam bubbles through out the who fight and woudl come close but not go oom. Where if I had stacked sp I would have gone oom.
In my opinion having the mana to bubble spam is better as the bubble prevents the damage not heal after the damage has been taken.



Where are you getting your numbers from? Were you other healers in 10 man naxx gear? And why were in a 10 m an w.o replenishment? If you spam bubble how are you doing more healing, "possible absorbs"? And stacking spellpower is still better because it increases the amount you bubble absorbs anyway. More spellpower should = less shields you need to apply (correct me if i'm wrong). As far as I knew stacking int was for the sole purpose of being able to last a fight. Int was needed when your gear level wasnt high enough to maintain healing through an encounter. However, with the gear that everyone "should" have by now there is no reason to stack int anymore. Someone correct me if i'm wrong but the numbers say point for point SP > all??? There has not been any fight in wotlk where i was completely strained on mana. I gem pure 23 sp and 12 sp 10 int. And if you are using possible absorbs I do over 14k HPS on heroic twins then...I just spam shield our range the entire fight...and no i never run oom and thats with over 3300 spellpower as Disc.

#25 meddle

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 03:46 PM

Hi, anyone can provide some math for this:

vs vs

Thanks!


The math surrounding the Soul and the Spark have been done again and again if you do a quick search.

The snowflake is going to be difficult to model accurately because the mana it gives you will vary based on the mechanics of spells you use (as compared to the amount of spells you use , or the internal proc rate of the trinket ). On the PTR the snowflake was granting 11 mana per actual heal (ex. Circle of Healing effectively costs 745 mana instead of 811 wearing this trinket, 11 mana restored per each target, glyphed).

was bugged for spells like Penance and PoM on the PTR and I haven't seen it drop on live yet to know if they've fixed that; I assume they have. Interestingly, if it obeys the like it does the , there is the potential for the Snowflake to grant you 110 for each PoH.

Overall, the mana restore equip effect is going to be more potent than the Spark's in terms of mana conservation/regen if I had to hazard a guess. The value of the haste on-use... I can't think of a time during our clear of the first wing of Icecrown where a haste-clicky would have been particularly useful, perhaps maybe in ToC; the Spark's 100 spirit is always useful on the other hand. I would say the Snowflake is mediocre and highly situational at best, especially considering you lose out on the 160-or-so spell power you receive from a or a . In general the mana efficiency trinkets have fallen out of favor as mana problems have been scarce in ToC epics and I was hard-pressed to lose much mana at all in Icecrown.

#26 Carnathagia

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 05:12 PM

You can't call something a hard haste cap when doing so involves casting another spell which consumes a GCD. With the enormous stat inflation these days 11% haste can be achieved with as little as 3-4 pieces of gear, and people who reads this and takes it the wrong way will start passing on obvious upgrades because it puts them way past the supposed "hard haste cap".


A haste hard cap is unattainable since additional haste will continue to affect your casted spells indefinitely, even past the 50% mark. The soft cap, whereby you can create a situation where additional haste is not being used with borrowed time and all raid buffs is lower than this, at 4.67%. The argument is that for overall throughput, "stacking" haste past the soft cap gives a reduced benefit, so spellpower is a better stat to "stack", even though haste is the best secondary throughput stat. Perhaps the problem is with the term 'stack', which Sinndir redefined a few posts up. Either way, this needs a rewrite.

I think everyone can agree you would not be a very effective healer with 5% haste from gear. Raid damage so far in ICC (Think Impaled, Boiling Blood, Mark of the Fallen Champion) is more target focused, and tank damage is steadier, making shield spamming less viable, and Disc healing more effective. I suppose there could be some use for shield blanketing for Gunship battle if your raid is having trouble avoiding rockets, or Lady Deathwhisper's phase 2 frostbolt volleys. However, getting your haste rating below 154 rating would be very difficult while still using high ilvl gear.

Perhaps this:

Balance the haste and crit from your gear, don't stack more. Value these less the more you use shields.
Spellpower is king, especially since you don't have Spiritual Guidance scaling your levels.
Pick up as much intellect as as you need. Once you aren't having mana problems replace any previous intellect sockets with spellpower or a combination ([Luminous Ametrine]
11 spirit = 4 Mp5, with no spellpower gains.


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#27 Nerix

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 05:23 PM

Where are you getting your numbers from? Were you other healers in 10 man naxx gear? And why were in a 10 m an w.o replenishment? If you spam bubble how are you doing more healing, "possible absorbs"? And stacking spellpower is still better because it increases the amount you bubble absorbs anyway. More spellpower should = less shields you need to apply (correct me if i'm wrong). As far as I knew stacking int was for the sole purpose of being able to last a fight. Int was needed when your gear level wasnt high enough to maintain healing through an encounter. However, with the gear that everyone "should" have by now there is no reason to stack int anymore. Someone correct me if i'm wrong but the numbers say point for point SP > all??? There has not been any fight in wotlk where i was completely strained on mana. I gem pure 23 sp and 12 sp 10 int. And if you are using possible absorbs I do over 14k HPS on heroic twins then...I just spam shield our range the entire fight...and no i never run oom and thats with over 3300 spellpower as Disc.


Hey itsmekp,
I went ICC 25 yesterday and was doing my job as discipline bubble raid support healer.
As you see in the Logs, we got 2 Paladins for Tankheal.

My Stats completely unbuffed:

2659 SP (2833 with IF)
29.488 Mana (1727 Int)
30.36% Crit on Holy-Spells
614 Haste
676 Mana Regen.


Here some Logs:

Lady Deathwhisper (25 Normal)
Deathbringer Saurfang 25N


There is also a Fight against Lord Marrowgar 25N in the Logs, but we had massive laggs at the fight (Raid-DPS was at 53k :D)

#28 Squeakster

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 05:42 PM

A haste hard cap is unattainable since additional haste will continue to affect your casted spells indefinitely, even past the 50% mark. The soft cap, whereby you can create a situation where additional haste is not being used with borrowed time and all raid buffs is lower than this, at 4.67%. The argument is that for overall throughput, "stacking" haste past the soft cap gives a reduced benefit, so spellpower is a better stat to "stack", even though haste is the best secondary throughput stat. Perhaps the problem is with the term 'stack', which Sinndir redefined a few posts up. Either way, this needs a rewrite.


Agreed. Every Greater Heal, Penance and PoH will always benefit from more haste, as well as anything cast while BT haste is not up. Calling it a hard cap is not correct. If you are primarily tank healing then you are only going to get one or two BT hasted spells every 15 seconds anyway (one PWS on the tank every 15 seconds and if you feel like taking a risk and spending a GCD on a PWS for someone else then you can get more, but taking your attention off the tank is risky), so that means the majority of the time you will be without BT haste, making the 4.7% cap largely irrelevant.

There is no reason to actively avoid haste, either you are:
1. Tank healing, in which case most of your spells are not BT hasted and therefore benefit from additional haste
or
2. Raid healing (lots of PWS), in which case neither haste NOR crit is beneficial, but you can't avoid both of them on gear.

-----------------------------------------------

As a disc priest you really do not gain much (read any) benefit from casting a Greater Heal. Holy priests gain these possible modifiers: +10% healing (Spiritual Healing), +40% more spellpower to the coefficient (Empowered Healing), -15% cost (Improved Helaing), +3% healing (Blessed Resilience), +12% healing (Test of Faith), and a possible -36% reduced cast time (Serendipity). Thus a Disc priest just shouldn't spec into Divine Fury. Flash heal benefits from the glyph and improved flash heal talents, but both heals really lack bonus healing percentage modifiers which holy has plenty of.


Whoa now, as a veteran of these forums you should know that statement is controversial and still hotly debated. It's been shown many times that an appropriately talented Greater Heal is more than 1000 HPS higher than Flash Heal for approximately the same HPM. I know people are tired of the Greater Heal vs Flash Heal debate, but I think it is important that the compendium present both sides of the argument so players can decide for themselves.

-----------------------------------------------

Request: Bis for holy and disc

Most other class forums seem to have one somewhere, and their class is usually harder to calculate.


To the contrary, I would argue it is actually much easier for other classes (by which I mean damage dealers) to calculate BiS lists because there is only one thing that matters, DPS. All you need is one big formula that outputs one number, and you pick the gear that gives the biggest number. I agree with Kashir here, what is BiS for you depends on many variables and will vary between fights and with raid composition/strategy. I gear essentially like Kashir said, the higher the Ilvl the better, although I tend to prefer items with both haste & crit (no spirit) and try to keep somewhat of a balance between haste rating and crit rating.

-----------------------------------------------

I would like to challenge the idea that stacking spellpower as a disc priest is the best. I have stacked int for mana, mp5 and crit. It seems I am able to do more healing wth bubble spaming and dont run out of mana as other healers did in our icc10 run (without a replenishment) and DP procs all the time. Comparing it with togc I could spam bubbles through out the who fight and woudl come close but not go oom. Where if I had stacked sp I would have gone oom.
In my opinion having the mana to bubble spam is better as the bubble prevents the damage not heal after the damage has been taken.


Either you have the mana needed to cast enough heals or you don't. If you are running out of mana then yes, Int is what you should be gemming. But if you finish the fight with mana to spare, why the heck would you want to gem for more Int? Mana left over at the end of the fight is wasted, having even more mana left over is even more wasted.

-----------------------------------------------

And if you are using possible absorbs I do over 14k HPS on heroic twins then...I just spam shield our range the entire fight...and no i never run oom and thats with over 3300 spellpower as Disc.


Just a note, I assume you are getting 14k HPS from Recount or World of Logs (or some other parser), but shielding effects for that particular fight (Twins) are not parsed correctly. Damage is absorbed when a Dark person hits a Dark ball and parsers mistake that for PWS if the person has a PWS on. Also, PWS spam tops out around 10k HPS.

For all other fights, absorb effects parsing appears to be pretty accurate.

#29 itsmekp

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 05:42 PM

Hey itsmekp,
I went ICC 25 yesterday and was doing my job as discipline bubble raid support healer.
As you see in the Logs, we got 2 Paladins for Tankheal.

My Stats completely unbuffed:

2659 SP (2833 with IF)
29.488 Mana (1727 Int)
30.36% Crit on Holy-Spells
614 Haste
676 Mana Regen.


Here some Logs:

Lady Deathwhisper (25 Normal)
Deathbringer Saurfang 25N
There is also a Fight against Lord Marrowgar 25N in the Logs, but we had massive laggs at the fight (Raid-DPS was at 53k :D)

Nerix,

Looking at your armory first off I have to ask the question why you would gem sp/haste and sp/mp5? I feel that you should be able to get enough haste from gear alone. In my current gear im at about 18% haste with just gear. As for the Mp5, I haven't raided a whole lot as disc so I wouldn't know for sure if mp5 really was that important. As far as my experience when I do "need" to raid as disc. I find it that I NEVER run out of mana. So I would assume that gemming anything other then spellpower is a waste. I dont know what your situation with healing is so I cant assume that you're doing anything wrong. You also stated that you are a support raid healer as disc. I see that disc with its no cd pws is very good for blanket coverage of the raid, however I disagree with any disc healers doing any sort of raid healing. Even with borrowed time POH. Yes its viable but not the most effecient you could be. Again I dont know you're situation so i won't judge. I can only speak of my personal experience and my opinions. I have a question about your spec, I see that you take only 1/3 grace. And I'm assuming that its because you dont do a whole lot of if any tank healing. I would also suggest Desperate Prayer. I know its a crutch for some people but I'm sure a lot of people would agree that that has saved their lives more then once before. I've had this argument over and over with other priests deciding what gems were better from disc priests. And I still believe that Spellpower out weighs any other stat. AS long as you dont have mana issues spellpower should be number 1 priority. ALL of your other stats (haste, crit, etc) are easily attainable through gear alone. Thats just my opinion. I'm having to raid as disc more often due to the lack of tank healers in our guild (we have 1 holy paladin, 2 resto druids, 2 priests, and a dual spec boomkin/tree) Needless to say we're hurting for heals.

#30 itsmekp

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 05:47 PM

I'm aware of the bugs with possible absorbs, and the hps is due to shields along with the other healing done, pom, holy nova etc. I was just stating a specific fight where it looks like disc priests are doing so good..haha Also i was trying to get across the same point you stated about mana issues, I can spam pws 100% of that fight and not worry about mana. And I agree that if you have mana over its wasted, and why have even more wasted.

#31 Nerix

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 06:00 PM

Nerix,

Looking at your armory first off I have to ask the question why you would gem sp/haste and sp/mp5? I feel that you should be able to get enough haste from gear alone. In my current gear im at about 18% haste with just gear. As for the Mp5, I haven't raided a whole lot as disc so I wouldn't know for sure if mp5 really was that important. As far as my experience when I do "need" to raid as disc. I find it that I NEVER run out of mana. So I would assume that gemming anything other then spellpower is a waste. I dont know what your situation with healing is so I cant assume that you're doing anything wrong. You also stated that you are a support raid healer as disc. I see that disc with its no cd pws is very good for blanket coverage of the raid, however I disagree with any disc healers doing any sort of raid healing. Even with borrowed time POH. Yes its viable but not the most effecient you could be. Again I dont know you're situation so i won't judge. I can only speak of my personal experience and my opinions. I have a question about your spec, I see that you take only 1/3 grace. And I'm assuming that its because you dont do a whole lot of if any tank healing. I would also suggest Desperate Prayer. I know its a crutch for some people but I'm sure a lot of people would agree that that has saved their lives more then once before. I've had this argument over and over with other priests deciding what gems were better from disc priests. And I still believe that Spellpower out weighs any other stat. AS long as you dont have mana issues spellpower should be number 1 priority. ALL of your other stats (haste, crit, etc) are easily attainable through gear alone. Thats just my opinion. I'm having to raid as disc more often due to the lack of tank healers in our guild (we have 1 holy paladin, 2 resto druids, 2 priests, and a dual spec boomkin/tree) Needless to say we're hurting for heals.


Hey,
thank you for your suggestions.
I'm the only Disc/Holy Priest in the Guild at the moment and most parts of my current gear i'm also using for Holy. So there are many gems for Sp/Haste and SP/MP5 in fact of my Parts, where i specced Holy. Spirit is useless for Disc, so i gemmed MP5 to got a better manareg on Disc AND Holy.

I was specced 53/18 a short time ago with 2/2 in Grace. I respecced, because in ICC there is not that much Damage on Tanks with 2 Holy Paladins healing the Tanks.

Desperate Prayer is of course a nice spell, but when you get hit by random aggro or something, you are most of the time a one hit wonder (thats my oppunion).

Hopefully there will be another Priest joining us, so i can full concentrate on Disc and regem my Equipment.

#32 itsmekp

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 06:05 PM

11 spirit = 4 Mp5, with no spellpower gains (as Disc). 12 spellpower 10 spirit

You're probably better off using that for blue gems incase you need to switch between the holy and Disc. And like people throughout the forums say, if you don't run out of mana dont gem for it. So if you're not having any mana issues (which after looking at you gear I wouldnt think you would) you should gem for SP. As for being the only holy/disc priest...wtb same situation. My wife raids with us and shes a holy priest too...irl drama inc for clothy gears lol.

As for the desperate prayer, yes you are right about a lot of times when we do get hit its a 1 shot. But a lot of things wont one shot us as well. Only examples I can really think of are from the Saurfang (if you fall behind binding heal) and from DnD from the second boss. Just things that can catch you off guard and allow you to fall behind your personal heals. And thats just my opinion.

#33 Turrin

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 06:51 PM

The math surrounding the Soul and the Spark have been done again and again if you do a quick search.

....

was bugged for spells like Penance and PoM on the PTR and I haven't seen it drop on live yet to know if they've fixed that; I assume they have. Interestingly, if it obeys the like it does the , there is the potential for the Snowflake to grant you 110 for each PoH.

...


I can assure you it has not been fixed, it was not working off of Pennance or PoM last night. I got the drop, and took it in the hopes that i could find a situational use for it (I am disc).

Turns out it would work better for a shadow priest, the thing procs off of VE. Over a minute on the target dummy, i got about 4.9k mana back. Add in a 4 more people receiving VE, and I can see myself freeing up 8 or more talent points in my shadow offspec. You would never have to worry about mana again.
Hurrah! Holy Smite DPS viability thread is closed!
Time to delete your , oh wait..

#34 Sinndir

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 07:26 PM

Whoa now, as a veteran of these forums you should know that statement is controversial and still hotly debated. It's been shown many times that an appropriately talented Greater Heal is more than 1000 HPS higher than Flash Heal for approximately the same HPM. I know people are tired of the Greater Heal vs Flash Heal debate, but I think it is important that the compendium present both sides of the argument so players can decide for themselves.


Controversial, sure. Isn`t that what these forums are for? As for appropriately talented, yeah then it is better. But are you really going to dump in 13 talents from a holy tree that already makes choices tough to a spell you rarely use? Not only that, but Gheal just isn't very good for raid healing. (You and I know as well as everyone else here that is our job as holy).

As far as is concerned my fellow priest in guild has confirmed it giving him 66 mana from CoH, 11 mana per PoM bounce, 55 mana on a PoH, Empowered Renew does not give 11 mana but each renew tick does, binding heal gives 22 mana. So just from those numbers casting 1 spell every 2 seconds over a minute (very doable) you are looking at 27.5 mp5 scaling up way higher than that using multi-targetted heals.

Example: 1 minute of casting (CoH, PoM on cooldown and a GCD spell every chance inbetween) @1.3 GCD:
10x CoH - 660 mana
8x PoM (3 bounces each) - 264 mana
14 GCD Spells (renew) - 770 mana
14 GCD Spells (Flash) - 154 mana
Total - 1848 mana returned @ 154 mp5 (Pretty gross)

As for the compendium main post, I have my last day of internship today (friday and the weekend off). So I'll be getting that first post up to speed with a lot of stuff that has been said here as well as creating a quick list and looking in-depth at the T10 bonus'.

#35 tedv

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 07:29 PM

I can assure you it has not been fixed, it was not working off of Pennance or PoM last night. I got the drop, and took it in the hopes that i could find a situational use for it (I am disc).

Turns out it would work better for a shadow priest, the thing procs off of VE. Over a minute on the target dummy, i got about 4.9k mana back. Add in a 4 more people receiving VE, and I can see myself freeing up 8 or more talent points in my shadow offspec. You would never have to worry about mana again.


I only count 6 points. I think you still want 2/2 Veiled Shadows simply because Shadowfiend is a ton of damage, and one extra cast per fight is meaningful. Regardless though, where are you going to move the talent points in a place that they matter? I guess it lets you get both Spirit Tap and Silence + Psychic Horror. The full 5 points for Improved Spirit Tap basically just makes each point of spirit worth an extra 0.05 spell power though. So if you have 600 spirit, you gain 30 spell power. Not exactly the best return on investment ever. Keep in mind that you've lost 150 spell power because you're using a throughput trinket. I don't see how this is a net gain.

#36 Furinaux

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 08:04 PM

Controversial, sure. Isn`t that what these forums are for? As for appropriately talented, yeah then it is better. But are you really going to dump in 13 talents from a holy tree that already makes choices tough to a spell you rarely use? Not only that, but Gheal just isn't very good for raid healing. (You and I know as well as everyone else here that is our job as holy).


I pretty much agree with Sinndir's approach towards Gheal. It might not be completely accurate to my views, but it's basically in the bullseye. I actually took the 5 points out of Divine Fury to get 2/2 Healing Focus and 3/3 Improved Renew (yes, I know they suck). Basically I saw myself doing 0-2 Gheals per bossfight. I had the talent in the first place, rationalizing that when I want to use Gheal I have it, but now I've completely gone towards Ghealing only with an Inner Focus buff (if PoH isn't necessary). If I do Gheal I have 27% increased casting without BT proc'd in a 25 man, so I feel pretty confidently in the clear.

I suppose it is broken down to playstyle if Disc priests really find effective use of Gheal (though, sorry if my candor offends anyone, but I find it hard to believe you're truly being efficient). I prefer the machine-gun style of Fheals (and I am 99% of the time tank healing). With the new T10 HoT effect, I can't imagine not using Fheal, but the HoT probably wouldn't make up for the aforementioned 1000 HPS differential. Still excites me, though.

#37 tasha

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 09:20 PM

The GH vs FH debate is moot for holy spec.
About discipline, it's Spell Warding vs Divine Fury. Both choices have pros and cons.

Personaly, I pull off some GH's when I'm alone on a Tank, or on specific Fusion Punch-style abilities.
It's true that GH's niche in our healing pattern is small (especialy in 25 men). But it's still a better HPS than FH, and we're talking about min-maxing here.
Try to use it, if it overheals or if your tank dies, don't. :)

#38 Squeakster

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 09:25 PM

Controversial, sure. Isn`t that what these forums are for? As for appropriately talented, yeah then it is better. But are you really going to dump in 13 talents from a holy tree that already makes choices tough to a spell you rarely use? Not only that, but Gheal just isn't very good for raid healing. (You and I know as well as everyone else here that is our job as holy).


I agree, I'm always up for a good debate. I was responding to your post stating that Discipline priests should not cast Greater Heal. I will agree with you whole-heartedly that a Holy priest has no use for Greater Heal when raid healing.

It really isn't that significant of a talent investment, illustrated by this spec, in which you are only sacrificing Spell Warding (marginal loss), Desperate Prayer (marginal loss), and 3% crit from Focused Will (marginal loss). The loss of those talents is more than made up by the extra 1000 HPS of Greater Heal.

I suppose it is broken down to playstyle if Disc priests really find effective use of Gheal (though, sorry if my candor offends anyone, but I find it hard to believe you're truly being efficient). I prefer the machine-gun style of Fheals (and I am 99% of the time tank healing). With the new T10 HoT effect, I can't imagine not using Fheal, but the HoT probably wouldn't make up for the aforementioned 1000 HPS differential. Still excites me, though.


The definition of efficiency, to me, is HPM, and by that measure Greater Heal is as efficient as Flash Heal (actually GH is slightly more efficient, and will scale better as we get ICC gear). Now we can argue about whether or not Greater Heal leads to more overheal than Flash Heal, but it's pretty difficult to prove either side of that argument. In the end though, the vast majority of posters here have expressed the same sentiment that they never have mana problems, so even if Greater Heal does overheal more and therefore is slightly less efficient, does it really matter?

I do still like to mix in the occasional Flash Heal when I'm tank healing, and with the T10 2-piece bonus I am sure I will continue to do so as it is a nice little bonus, but I certainly wouldn't consider it the kind of bonus that changes the way one plays (or the 4-piece for that matter).

#39 Carnathagia

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 10:05 PM

a Holy priest has no use for Greater Heal when raid healing.


How are you using your serendipity stack? The only boss I've found a use for Prayer of Healing is Lady Deathwhisper P2, covering frostbolt volleys and the occasional melee fail at spirits. Otherwise the damage patterns just didn't support 3 or more people missing 5k+ hp in the same group at the same time. Especially while 2 healing 10 man as Holy with a Holy Paladin, I found myself dropping Serendipity stacks into Greater Heals on the tanks. The incoming damage is less spiky than it was (at least in the current easy mode), and I found I could consistently land hasted Greater Heals with little to no over-healing to help out when healing would get a little behind (Paladin impaled, Mark of the Fallen Champion, missed frostbolt interrupt, etc.)
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Jovavich - Arcane/Fire Mage

#40 Squeakster

Squeakster

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 10:55 PM

I almost never play as Holy so my views are merely what I see written by posters here whose opinions I respect. If ICC is changing how Holy priests use Greater Heal then I am out of the loop. My interest in the debate is how Disc priests utilize Greater Heal.




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