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WotLK Healing Discussion v3.3: Icecrown Citadel awaits!

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#281 Grouikette


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Posted 17 June 2010 - 02:18 PM

you should probably aim to get 20 people shielded for each infest, this is easily doable and should still leave you with a gcd to fire off a PoM before most infests hit.

Hi Bobbeh,
I'm the bubble-spammer guy on LK, and I'm quite surprised by your statement.
Probably due to the lag (150ms approximately), even if I spam PW:S just before the end of each GCD (to diminish the lag effect between each PW:S), I don't manage to put 20 shields plus a PoM (and a PI if it's up) between each infest.
My average score is 18 PW:S + 1 PoM, so that's 3 GCD less than what you do easily.
Since I'm GCD-capped, I was wondering if you did something particular to be able to cast 3 more spell than me, or if I was doing something wrong (can I fail in spam ? O_o).
Do you have a log to show, please ?

#282 tasha


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Posted 17 June 2010 - 05:02 PM

He doesn't cast infest "exactly" every 20seconds. So you can expect anything between 15-20 shields. I noticed that I often waste bits of time in valk phase when I'm running around, or if the target is swinging at the range limit.

An advantage of the holy priest compared to a shaman, is that he can cast 2-3 weaker shields between infests as well.

Thanks for the tip seriff, I feel dumb that I missed it. v.v

#283 Bobbeh


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Posted 17 June 2010 - 10:27 PM


for me, the shortest time between 2 infests is enough to get 20 shields and nothing else, this is with 50ms and being GCD capped. Then when the interval is slightly longer theres enough for a PoM or more shields or whatever.

During phase 2 there's still the occasional interval where there's room for a PoM but with all the movement and such it becomes much tighter sometimes missing a few shields, but for the majority its possible to get 20 up each time.

We're still very much progressing through phase 2 so our logs are a bit messy at the moment but here's out best try from this evening World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

I generally favour an extra shield over a PoM at the moment as our 2 infest healers are doing so well clearing it off.

#284 Kalandras


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Posted 18 June 2010 - 11:33 PM

My guild is currently working on HM LK and we seem to have hit a brick wall half way through phase 2. The discussion that has come up is how to most effectively handle infests. Our healing make up is as follows:

Paladin x2
Priest x2

Sometimes we trade trade out 1 paladin for a shaman depending on who is there.

My question is whether the priests should run holy/disc or duo disc.

Another question I have is that currently we have the two priests and the druid on raid heals and the rest on tanks. Is the druid a bad choice? Should we have the druid on the tanks and shaman on the raid instead?

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

#285 Bobbeh


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Posted 19 June 2010 - 01:08 AM

Hey Kalandras,

If you decide to take 6 healers with you (one being a druid) your most optimal approach to infests is to leave it to the shaman and 2 priests, I can only really speak from my own perspective (and a bit from what I hear from other healing teams progressing on it) but the shaman/2 priest combo really is the most effective way of nullifying infests.

Its been said before but essentially your druid (compared to the other healers at least) is a dead weight during the 1st 2 phases. I would love to hear from someone who is progressing (or has killed it!) who uses a resto druid to good effect/how they set things up etc.

Theres 3 options for your priests:
-Disc/Holy - the disc aims to shield 20 people for each infest and does nothing else while the shaman and holy priest clear off any that remain.
-Disc/Disc - same again only the second disc has a slightly harder job clearing off the remaining infests. The benefit from this tactic however is that when your primary shielder gets picked up in phase 2 you have your second disc to finish off the shields before the next infest hits.
-Disc/Disc - this time both priests shield half of the raid each for every infest, after it hits both priests have a brief period where they can clear off any remaining before they have to begin reapplying shields.

I honestly can't tell you which one of these works best (or if there are other variations) but the 1st has served us well so far, most of our wipes are caused by defiles or important people getting carried over the edge.

As far as your druid goes, stick it on the tanks supporting the paladins, however it'll be hugely useful on the raid during the transitions and in the frostmourne room.

As I said we're still making progression through phase 2 as well so my opinions are only based on what I've seen so far, hope it helps either way.

#286 Starfire


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Posted 19 June 2010 - 07:22 AM

There's a 4th option, use a 21/41 (+9) Disc/Holy Priest. It gives you the benefit of Soul Warding and Circle of Healing; however this priest won't have Rapture, so mass-shielding the raid will not be sustainable. (You also lose Guardian Spirit and Pain Suppression/Power Infusion).

Also, every holy priest should be able to cover at least 6 people through Infest with no problem. Prayer of Mending should guarantee 1 person and a Prayer of Healing on melee should cover 5. The shield difference is surprisingly small, because the holy priest has more spellpower and couple of talents to help make-up for Borrowed Time.

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#287 Pixlol


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Posted 22 June 2010 - 05:15 AM


Currently the druid is only with the run because we are working with what we got. I told to healers that I can generally only handle about 18 Give or take some With PW:S, but usually i get blamed for anyone dying to infest. Our second priest gets back this week so him + his valynar should make a huge difference in our healing group + the 25% buff I believe hits this week as well. While on the topic you mention going Disc / Disc which Is what we were going to try however it seems like having one Disc and one Holy would work the best with him instantly topping off the melee with Prayer of Healing and then CoH immediately following. I haven't been able to see if this work but was curious if that's a valid strategy. Also, we had a Paladin emo rage this week and was curious if it was highly possible to have a restoration shaman healing the MT with a Holy Paladin beacon on the MT while healing the OT.

Thanks again for all the information its helping when we get time to get pulls in.

PS: Also regarding 10 man we are doing Holy paladin / Disc but it seems to get rather rough with raid heals During the transitions any advice?

#288 Garantio


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Posted 22 June 2010 - 07:30 AM

PS: Also regarding 10 man we are doing Holy paladin / Disc but it seems to get rather rough with raid heals During the transitions any advice?

I'd say you should spread out better. In 10-man there shouldn't be any big problem to spread your ranged so only 1 or 2 are going to be hit simultaneously. If you're melee heavy then the things look a bit worse but... well, I found that all or almost all ICC10 fights benefit ranged heavy group over melee anyway :)

#289 jula


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Posted 22 June 2010 - 02:29 PM


On the subject of the shaman and druid assignment, keep in mind that you pretty much want 100% inspiration on tanks in this fight, since Soul Reaper gibs are still very dangerous and sadly neither the druid nor the paladin healers can't do provide this buff. The disc priest will be shielding raid and almost never the tanks, and the holy will also be busy with infest with it comes, leaving your tank sometimes without the -10% physical dmg buff.

#290 Bobbeh


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Posted 22 June 2010 - 03:37 PM

With the tactic we use (Shaman/Holy) the 2 infest healers are essentially just tank healing anyway until the brief period where they need to clear infests meaning inspiration will more than likely be up all the time.

As for Soul Reaper our second tank just range taunts it so when done right it'll never result in a death.

#291 savingyoazz


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Posted 25 June 2010 - 01:32 AM

My ICC 10 group is stuck on the Lich king. I've found that keeping PW:S up on the inside phase where the valkarie are carrying off the people helps a lot to keep the other heals on the tank (2 druids). I'm the lowest geared person in the group, aside from the PvP bracer that was better than my lower level one, do I need to regem? Re-enchant? Anything like that? Any suggestions other than to put up PW:S in that phase and keep prayer of mending on the tanks on every CD? Should we grab another Disc priest to help with the infest? Any suggestions would be awesome. Thanks.

#292 Sgat8516


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Posted 25 June 2010 - 06:31 AM

While on the topic you mention going Disc / Disc which Is what we were going to try however it seems like having one Disc and one Holy would work the best with him instantly topping off the melee with Prayer of Healing and then CoH immediately following.

Disc/Disc isn't really an effective combo, for 25HM at least.
What we basically did, was designate 3 groups for myself (disc), a melee group for the Holy Priest (and left overs for the sham's CH bounce). Doesn't put out the max number of possible shields, but its a little more reliable (especially when 1 of those healers is picked up). I shield my 15, get a PoM out on one of the common targets to not remove infest (mages/locks/paladin's seem to take slightly more damage, possibly through a lack of % spell based damage reductions in talents), when done with those, I'll get a few renew's going (depending on time).
Those 15 players are mostly my responsibility, so when infest rolls out, those are my priorities to remove infest debuff (rather than restarting shielding immediately, with 2 people still having infest).
We typically use a Sham bouncing CH's through the MT (picking up the other melee in G1 for infest, along with CoH after the PoH cast for Holy Priest), keeping up 10% reduction. The priest version of this is much more difficult to manipulate on a single target (Target MT w/ 6 people at lower % Hp around him = those 6 get healed and not tank, doesn't 'have' to hit the primary target).
As for the rough damage at transition, the P1 transition is fairly low impact (as the platform is still there), and no one should be taking Winter ticks. But the second transition, everyone in the raid takes at least 1, plus your dealing with P+S. About the only thing you can do, is either have the raid fully shielded already (can be tricky, but if there's an infest right before transition, there needs to be a raid CD call). Also, having designated sides to run out at helps to (2 ranged run out about 10-15yds from the LK MT with a healer, few others and other healer on other side, spread far enough to maintain range, but avoid 10person cone).
If damage during the transition (melee heavy groups), only way I've seen thats really effective, its to just have melee watch out, split them to 2 groups, if they get a 4 stack (self monitored), each group takes 2-3 steps further apart (out of dps range), for 1 P+S pulse, which will reset the stacks on at least most of them.

#293 Carnathagia


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Posted 14 July 2010 - 08:22 AM

Holy with Body and Soul is very effective for Heroic Halion. If you have a Disc Priest, ask them to restrain themselves from rampant bubbling in the 1st phase to leave your raiders clear for a free sprint when they get consumption/combustion. It's also very mobile in the twilight realm. You are able to put out a lot of healing with your instants and keep Guardian Spirit for dangerous moments on your tank or to save people that get RNG'd with debuffs or cutter.

I used the 18/53/0 spec I'm wearing for the longevity with instants, and even got some good healing with Lightwell when I remembered to use it.

Halion 10 Heroic
Emraldè - Resto/Balance Druid - Carnathagia - Holy/Disc Priest - Liltankh - Prot/Fury Warrior
Jovavich - Arcane/Fire Mage

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