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WotLK Healing Discussion v3.3: Icecrown Citadel awaits!


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#21 Pootamal

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 08:39 AM

As long as the both Disc priests communicate well, I feel like its better than having one of each since the healing isn't very AoE intensive.


Hi everyone,


I agree with this, we were 2 disc yesterday night, you just need to have one disc on both tanks and the first mark targets, and the other disc shield everyone else.

We were 2 pals, one chamy, 2 disc, one holy. (holy is useless i think, bring a drood if you can)

#22 itsmekp

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 02:32 PM

I would think that the holy priest would be better of speccing disc for that fight. As holy my aoe heals were just pointless on Saurfang as everyone is spread out. 2 disc priests would work well in 25man.


With our setup we have 1 Holy Priest, 1 Disc Priest, 2 Resto Druid and a Holy Paladin. I don't think running with 2 disc priest is smart just for the fact of Weakened Soul. I specifically tell the holy priest to not cast PwS on anyone. They just Renew the target as I shield them. We had no problems with the marks after that with 2 resto druids just hotting the target with a shield and renew they wont die.

As for 10 man I stayed Holy and we just 2 healed it. We killed him before the first mark even came out. I don't know what ot expect for hardmodes, but for now its really easy. I think it would be safe to say I could solo heal it if everyone was able to not get hit by beasts and have a high avoidance tank.

#23 Caliste

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 06:16 PM

Having two Disc priests worked out very well in our set up. We already had two resto druids, so another was unecessary. We also usually run with myself, two shamans and a paladin. We had one of the shamans bring his priest so we could pre-shield (trivializing Saurfang's abilities). This probably isn't necessary but it really did make this incredibly easy. And for a guild that is struggling on this fight I would encourage the use of two Disc priests.

We had no issues with weakened soul at all. But then we were set up to specifically to avoid this issue. We each had assigned groups that we were responsible for shielding (and those groups were assigned to spread out in a certain area). But the most important thing was that our grid's are configured to display the weakened soul icon in the middle of each health bar. He actually has the same grid setup as I do since I emailed him my grid components and WTF file. No risk at all of running into each other's Weakened Soul debuffs.

Edit: As to the comment about bringing a druid instead of a holy priest that unfortunately seems to be true for most ICC fights so far. I've been very disappointed by the effectiveness of holy. I expect I'll be disc a lot more that I will be holy. Which is really a shame since I prefer holy by far.

#24 Kimina1

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 08:39 PM

Edit: As to the comment about bringing a druid instead of a holy priest that unfortunately seems to be true for most ICC fights so far. I've been very disappointed by the effectiveness of holy. I expect I'll be disc a lot more that I will be holy. Which is really a shame since I prefer holy by far.


I am glad someone else noticed this. Most of the fights seems to be about people taking random spikes of damage versus predicted amounts of damage (i.e. no Gormok stomp, no Tantrum, etc). Druids and Disc priests seem to be owning the first part of ICC with damage being all over the place.

#25 Carnathagia

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 09:22 PM

Healing the encounter when all 4 issues are handled well is a piece of cake - chances are the group doesn't even see a second mark. Issue 4) makes it very hard for the boss to gain extra Blood Power from the first mark applied.


On our 3rd alt 25 run of the week, Saurfang was a real roadblock that required min/maxing of the encounter, and I foresee it being very tight on heroic. Because of our lower gear level, we spent many attempts really minimizing each incoming source of his blood power and our healing strategy. The paladin and shaman are tank healing. For Marks, we had the 2 druids keeping hots up on them, and the two holy priests alternating marks to pick up. 6-7 seemed to be all we could sustain before someone would die, and his health bar started going the wrong way.

Deathbringer Saurfang
Best attempt

It seems that speccing into and using Renew in conjunction with flash heal and prayer of mending gave the best results between the priests.

All in all, a very interesting encounter with a great tuning mechanism that synergizes the tanks' avoidance, the raid's dps and positioning, and the healers' throughput.
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#26 Ingela

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 11:36 PM

I found that disc was by far the best specc on all bosses.

I'm no holy priest, I only have it as an off specc to use it on bosses that it's better for and when I'm bored, so yeah, I'm way more comfortable with disc. Keep this in mind!

Here's the kill for Deathwispher (I'm disc):
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Here's my best try as holy:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Hehe, I smell some absorb thievery here :)

#27 itsmekp

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 12:12 PM

I found that disc was by far the best specc on all bosses.

I'm no holy priest, I only have it as an off specc to use it on bosses that it's better for and when I'm bored, so yeah, I'm way more comfortable with disc. Keep this in mind!

Here's the kill for Deathwispher (I'm disc):
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Here's my best try as holy:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Hehe, I smell some absorb thievery here :)



After looking over the logs I've notice a few things I would like to point out. First off I agree as the only healing priest in the raid that I do believe that Disc brings more to the table (as the only healing priest). That doesn't mean that Holy still isnt good in ICC it just means as solo priest disc has more to offer. Also looking at your healing done, I find it that you do not utilize PoM nearly enough. For both Disc and holy its one our best spells. Especially as holy, I think you may have had like 6 hits in the 3 min attempt. And as for disc I know that you shield everything, but you really should weave in PoM on cd if its not still out and about.

#28 Ingela

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 06:33 PM

After looking over the logs I've notice a few things I would like to point out. First off I agree as the only healing priest in the raid that I do believe that Disc brings more to the table (as the only healing priest). That doesn't mean that Holy still isnt good in ICC it just means as solo priest disc has more to offer. Also looking at your healing done, I find it that you do not utilize PoM nearly enough. For both Disc and holy its one our best spells. Especially as holy, I think you may have had like 6 hits in the 3 min attempt. And as for disc I know that you shield everything, but you really should weave in PoM on cd if its not still out and about.


Thanks, I'll look into it. WTB Healing dummies for some theory-crafting sometimes :)

#29 Sinndir

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 06:40 PM

Thanks, I'll look into it. WTB Healing dummies for some theory-crafting sometimes :)


You can easily just do it by healing yourself if thats what you're looking for. Our numbers are all very absolute, as long as you don't overly care about overhealing.

#30 Ingela

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 01:23 AM

You can easily just do it by healing yourself if thats what you're looking for. Our numbers are all very absolute, as long as you don't overly care about overhealing.


Sorry for being a litlte offtopic here, but no. PoM, shields, insporation, what ever, doesn't apply to people not taking damage. So no, it doesn't work just as well.

#31 Fallenangel

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 12:37 PM

Dummies aren't meant for theorycrafting, they're mostly there to practice rotations or test edge-cases. Spreadsheets are what you're looking for.

#32 Cascade-Mok

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 12:56 PM

Here's some more WOL reports. I'm the only dedicated disc priest in my guild, and so far, it's been working pretty well. From tonight, here's this week's Saurfang.

Basically, all I did was shield the people with Blood Boil ASAP, shield on the tanks as much as possible, POM tanks, shield melee before blood beasts, and Penance/FH the tanks when needed. Played the field for the most part just to prevent damage to prevent stacks.

I died on Marrowgar and Deathwhisper this week, but feel free to check out those also.

Last week's report was just as good. No deaths by me. For Marrowgar, I shielded Bone Spiked targets, shielded/Penanced/FH'd tanks, abused POM on Whirlwind, as well as shields. Our logs weren't running but from this current week's WOL report, I seemed to have done well with that "rotation."

On Lady Deathwhisper, kept shields on tanks, Penanced if they got the healing debuff, otherwise guessed and shielded the raid mostly. I kept up with our druid with Valy.

Also, here's last week's Saurfang. Same routine as the last week.

#33 Ravenmyst

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 06:54 PM

I've gone through this dungeon twice now on 10 man so I thought I might share my experiences thus far in case it helps.

I am a Holy/ Disc Duel spec Priest. I typically run with a Disc Priest and a Resto shaman so I find myself more often then not running Holy even tho my preference generally speaking is Disc.

Our First run through 10 man ICC through Saurfang we did with all 3 healers. Disc on tanks, myself(as holy) on raid and backing up tanks and Resto on Raid. Pre nerf Marrow I was pulling around 5.5k hps on that encounter our first week and it was very hectic. (to be expected our first try I suppose) Deathwhisper hps fell to about 4k to reflect the lower damage output in general of the fight. Gunship I was sleeping, then Saurfang.

Our trouble with Saurfang began with the fact we only had 2 range. Both Warlocks. So our melee joined in helping with adds.. in general we where sloppy I'd say, two or three attemps we even got up to 4 people with marks on them which is about the point things would completely fall appart. We could handle heals on 2 or 3, but 4 was just too much. We eventually DROPPED the DISC Priest, had them got on a Boomkin for more dps and a Holy Priest and Resto Shaman where able to keep up with the encounter just fine and we did it first try. (holy priest made up roughly 60% of healing done)

This week, we ran it with 2 healers, Holy Priest and Disc Priest and we one shot everything but Deathwhisper (tanks missed picking up some adds that whiped out the healers) And it was very easy. We got to Saurfang and downed him with just one Mark up.


So, to sum up my experiences. A holy Priest can handle healing Saurfang just fine, and consistantly (even on our 25 man) when I run holy I dominate the healing charts by a good margin. However, a Disc and Holy Priest team in ICC can easily handle everything and makes the first 4 bosses almost easy and is what we're likely to do from here on out.

#34 Plantain

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 07:26 PM

My guild had little trouble healing/killing Saurfang in 25man this week. link

We ran with 6 healers: 2 holy pallies, 1 disc priest, 1 holy priest, 1 resto druid, and 1 resto shaman.

The key seemed to be having a new healer dedicated to each marked raider by the end of the encounter. Initially, the first three marks were all handled by a single holy paladin (with shields from the disc priest/hots from druid). When the damage really started to ramp up towards the end that pally went to healing two, and each new person with the mark got his/her own dedicated healer. The resto druid was helping with all of them.

We had a total of 6 marks, the last coming seconds before Saurfang fell, so effectively we only had to heal 5.

I was playing as shadow for the kill I linked, but I healed and organized the healing the week before, where we developed the above idea.

Edit: When I did heal this encounter as holy, I found the healing very tame until the end. I renewed targets with blood boil and made sure to give out body & soul to targets that were kiting/about to get hit by adds. I guess I was "lucky" to get the mark myself, since I was able to just spam binding heal and effectively keep myself and someone else with the mark up.

#35 Carnathagia

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 07:41 PM

I 2 healed 10 man with a Resto Shaman. We cross-healed with me raid shielding and tank healing, and he focused on raid healing with tank support.

Marrowgar was fairly easy with the nerf that went through to tank damage. Even while the shaman was impaled, I had no trouble keeping the 2 tanks topped off and shielding the raid. However, on Lady Deathwhisper there were times that I struggled with tank healing against the adds, especially when there was raid damage going around and the healing absorption debuff was up. Even spamming a max throughput rotation, I lost 1 tank to this. Afterwards, I kept weakened soul off of the tanks so I could save the shields to counter the debuff and the heavy burst of raid damage after it. Has anyone else had this issue? We made it through the encounter, but the issue was non-existent on the immediately preceding run where I was a Resto Druid and the shaman was on his Holy Pally.

On Saurfang, through careful minimizing of Blood power including liberal use of shielding, we downed him without him getting his first Mark off. With the buff to his healing from Rune of Blood this should still be achievable with quick taunts, though it would require some very high dps to do without Discipline shields.
Emraldè - Resto/Balance Druid - Carnathagia - Holy/Disc Priest - Liltankh - Prot/Fury Warrior
Jovavich - Arcane/Fire Mage

#36 Promicin

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 07:41 PM

What worked for us in ICC25 last night was to simply let the people who get marked die. No healing, just a quick death. We did that up until the soft enrage time, then we kept everyone up. This let us reduce the number of healers we had, and focus our DPS.

Once we adopted this stratagy, things went much smoother.

#37 Sjonkel

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 07:42 PM

I'm tempted to think there's something wrong with your strategy if you get 5 marks. We also got that the first reset, this time we just got two. As a discipline priest, I just kept all the ranged/healers shielded as all times, then shielding whichever melee got Blood Boil. And obviously some good add work. Better to focus on avoiding marks, than healing them.

#38 Plantain

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 07:55 PM

I'm tempted to think there's something wrong with your strategy if you get 5 marks. We also got that the first reset, this time we just got two. As a discipline priest, I just kept all the ranged/healers shielded as all times, then shielding whichever melee got Blood Boil. And obviously some good add work. Better to focus on avoiding marks, than healing them.


We definably have room for improvement, I don't think our disc priest was actively attempting to shield every blood boil in order to absorb more, but I will definably bring that up. Our range could also tighten up the add kiting a bit. I'll see how we do next week.

#39 MADMark

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 08:19 PM

I'm tempted to think there's something wrong with your strategy if you get 5 marks.

If you go with the sacrafice strategy, have enough DPS (go short on heals) and/or have disc priest, I think [I've Gone and Made a Mess] is very likely, but since there are many guilds which have downed him without getting it, I wouldn't say its automatic. In other words, brute force is still a valid strategy, even if its not one I'd personally reccomend.

#40 Seraphone

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 07:01 AM

Discipline would definitely appear to be the spec of choice for Saurfang. Normally I run Holy but for the first time since Ulduar when healing Saurfang yesterday I had the feeling, "this would be an awful lot better if I were specced Disc". We had a 1x Paladin, 2x Holy Priest, 1x Resto Druid, 2x Resto Shaman so there was a lack of beacons to deal with mark of the fallen champion.

How are other dealing with this? We assigned specific healers for the debuff as it was cast but I found myself resorting to mostly flash spam with a renew/coh/pom thrown in on CD, which is not my idea of the optimum way to play holy and would surely have been better dealt with if I had a better shield and a penance at my disposal.




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