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WotLK Healing Discussion v3.3: Icecrown Citadel awaits!


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#41 Miarose

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 12:55 PM

We have run with 1 or 2 pallies/extra shaman, 1 druid, 1 shaman, 1 holy priest and me, disc. We haven't assigned individual healers to dealing with the mark. I keep them shielded and bounce my poms off of them, and flash/penance when needed. I'm sure the holy priest keeps a renew on them and her poms, the druid rolls hots, while shamans presumably chain heal through them. The pallies watch the tanks, with me helping. We haven't run into any problems keeping up everyone who gets marked. I'll have to agree, even though I'm partial to disc, the shields are So extremely useful in tossing one on someone and then forgetting about them for a bit while tank assisting.

#42 Imua

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 06:23 PM

We've taken to put our paladins on healing Marks. With a beacon on one target, they can easily keep two targets up by themselves. If you have 2 paladins, that's 4 Marks you can deal with with hardly any trouble. Saurfang doesn't hit the tank THAT hard.

The healing is so light, in fact, that I would recommend that some healers dps until like the first or second Mark. You want the fight over as quickly as possible, and any little bit helps.

#43 Guest_Aeriss_*

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 10:30 PM

on SF we run with 5 healers on 25 man.. 2 Disc priests 1 holy 2 palas, the first 2 marks can be covered up by 1 disc priest. mark 3-4.. 2nd disc priest.. disc priests can easily cover 3 marks if they dedicate them selfs to it. 5 healers isnt suggested if its a first kill.. first kill i would go with 2 disc 2 pala 1 resto druid 1 resto shaman.
if you bring more then 6 healers prepare for alot of marks.

#44 Pkol

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 02:10 AM

We ran 5 healers on Deathbringer 25, 2 Disc, 2 Resto Druids 1 Resto Shaman and I'm of the belief that the healing strategy for Surfang is preventative, ie, reducing the number of marks by spreading, dealing with bloodbeasts and quick taunts.

First week we had 4, killed a few seconds before the 5th (we had one mark death), this week we had 3 marks, no deaths, healing was, well, trivial. We had one disc priest on the tanks, the other shielding blood boil, and until marks came out (first one at about 50%), the other 3 healers just topping off tanks and boiled people. The 30% frenzy increases mark damage, but you should only have 1 or 2 marks up at this stage anyway.

Then between bloodlust and tank cooldowns (we use 3 tanks, cause that's what we bring to raids, 3 tanks chaining cooldowns will last you the entire sub 30% phase) you can almost dedicate most of your healers to Marked people anyway.

#45 pindle

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 10:50 AM

We ran 5 healers on Deathbringer 25, 2 Disc, 2 Resto Druids 1 Resto Shaman and I'm of the belief that the healing strategy for Surfang is preventative, ie, reducing the number of marks by spreading, dealing with bloodbeasts and quick taunts.


Ofcourse it is if you have 2 disc priests that almost completely starves his blood generation, shields are all that matters, that's basically what everyone agrees on. No hits from beasts, boiling ticks absorbed, as much shielding on the tank as possible and the fight is cake. Try it without a single disc priest if you're up for more of a challenge (perfectly doable as well just requires your dps to be more focussed as well as beast kiting/stunning needing to be very well executed).

Without a disc priest we went from wipe around 15% our first try with 5-6 marks, to 3 marks easy kill a few tries after that (just to indicate how much executing matters). Blood power management is all that matters and if you have a 1 or more disc priests you hardly need management at all, just need those priests to know what they're doing.

#46 Gradywhite

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 09:22 PM

In our 25m Saurfang, what we have been doing is letting the first and second marks die, purposely. This prevents blood power from stacking at a rapid rate. Our DPS is fairly high, and since dying to a mark only heals him for 5% of his total health, it's fairly simple to let him heal and DPS through the heal, as the time in between marks is greatly increased and we can generally knock him down 30% or so before the next mark comes. This makes the healing really simple, and allows us to bring only 5 healers, or maybe less, usually being a druid or two, two priests and one or two paladins, with a possible shaman.

Additionally, discipline is definitely optimal for this and many of the ICC fights so far. In our 10 man Saurfang kill, we managed to kill him before he threw out any marks at all, with me healing as disc and another restoration druid hotting. Shielding the blood boils, tanks, and ranged DPS that are kiting the adds makes the blood power gain virtually nothing. I have also used a Body and Soul (speed shield) spec in holy for Saurfang, allowing the ranged DPS to kite the beasts away quickly, and that seemed to work very well, but is really only manageable in 10m; in 25, there are just too many beasts and people they aggro to, making much less viable and coordinated.

(a little off the priest topic, but still interesting) Recently, I ran a 10m ICC with a few of our alts from the guild, and we managed to come up with a very interesting strategy for the 10m encounter. Our raid comp was not very optimal and we did not have any priests to shield/absorb damage and our range DPS was very slow. So, what we did was had our two ranged DPS, a warlock and a hunter, on one of the blood beasts, while our OT picked up the other and tanked him (wearing full avoidance gear). All the dodges, parries, and (I believe) blocks did not generate any blood power for Saurfang, and allowed our melee stacked group to tear through the beast very quickly. Using this method, we had 1-2 marks go out, and was strangely effective =P.

#47 RootBreaker

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 10:10 PM

Yeah, shield spamming is pretty amazing on Saurfang, and you shouldn't limit your targets to tanks, blood boiled people or people who might be hit by blood beasts. You should also shield spam the rest of your raid, starting with people standing at range. This is mostly to avoid blood nova damage, but it also helps when a person who has had a shield on them for a while gets a blood boil, because it allows you to use two shields on that person during that blood boil instead of just one.

Comparing the two runs we did last week (both with a mix of alts and mains), the run where I spam shielded had people take less than half as much blood boil and blood nova damage than the run without a disc. priest, despite lasting 15 seconds longer.

#48 Esh-324

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 11:18 PM

I run as with 2 resto shammies, 2 holy priests (including myself), 1 holy pally, and 1 resto druid. I agree that beacon of lighting the first mark works well, then we left the pally on the tank. Each shaman took the next mark. Because, even though I was holy, I was bubbling the Blood Boil targets, we ended up killing him without anymore marks going out. Definitely a fight that could be 5 healed. I'm just left wondering why so many guilds are stacking disc priests, its seems like you would get into issues with Weakened Soul.

#49 Senres

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 11:37 PM

One Disc Priest can't cover the entire raid with shields, but two can. Any more than two would be overkill and you'd start to run in to problems with Weakened Soul.

#50 Caliste

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Posted 22 December 2009 - 12:22 AM

Yeah, shield spamming is pretty amazing on Saurfang, and you shouldn't limit your targets to tanks, blood boiled people or people who might be hit by blood beasts. You should also shield spam the rest of your raid, starting with people standing at range. This is mostly to avoid blood nova damage, but it also helps when a person who has had a shield on them for a while gets a blood boil, because it allows you to use two shields on that person during that blood boil instead of just one.


This is exactly why our raid used two disc priests. I keep everyone shielded and the fight is a joke.

#51 Fairmont

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Posted 24 December 2009 - 03:00 PM

I'm just left wondering why so many guilds are stacking disc priests, its seems like you would get into issues with Weakened Soul.


Simply because you need 2 Disc priests to keep PW:S on the entire raid. Preemptive PW:S usage is simply needed to reduce the "energy" Saurfang gains to the maximum. While doing this you can easily create group assignments.

#52 Kimano

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Posted 25 December 2009 - 03:32 AM

Also, it's beneficial to have more than one Disc priest, because the Divine Aegis bubbles stack with each other, meaning much higher chance to get the shield up to the amount required to fully absorb a tick of Boiling Blood or Blood Nova, thus reducing his Blood power generation.

#53 Snizzle

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Posted 27 December 2009 - 01:28 PM

As a raiding holy priest who is reluctant to use a Discipline spec, my guild on our 10man defeats of Saurfang have used a two healing strategy. During our 3 kills of him thus far we have used two different healing set ups;

Holy Priest + Shaman
Holy Priest + Holy Paladin

We found it relatively easy for me to help DPS the boss (for around 1.8k) until the first Mark hit, with the Paladin/Shaman solo healing the raid. With this method we could quite easily get Saurfang to around 15% before the first mark occured, when this happened I would simply spam heal the marked person until the fight had ended. We are hoping to experiment with a 1 healer setup in the future, though our dps will have to improve slightly for that to be viable.

A bug I'd like to report in this fight for holy priest is as follows;
If you finish the fight in Spirit of Redemption form you will Not get the achievements, this was rather annoying as I was like this for our first 2 kills. I can also pretty much confirm from my experiences that if you have the mark and enter Spirit form, Saurfang is not healed until it ends.

#54 Typical

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Posted 29 December 2009 - 06:23 PM

My 10m ICC run consists of me as Disc and a Holy Pally. We two heal everything up to and including Saurfang. First week we three healed Marrow for our first attempt. Ele shaman went resto but wasn't needed. Last week we went through it with Disc priest (me) and a Tree druid. No wipes. No Mark of the crusader were cast. I (disc) cover every debuffed , marked target and assist tank healing. Shield entire raid renew on tanks and using PoM every CD.

Our 25man runs with 1 holy pally 3 priest (2 Disc) 1 holy and 2 tree's. Holy pally heals the tanks. Beacon on one spam healing the other. Me and the other disc priest cover raid bubbles tank healing assist and healing the debuffed , marked targets. Druids are just hotting tanks and hotting debuffed , marked targets. Boomkin in the middle knocking back adds along with ele Shaman on left and right knocking back adds. Hunters laying traps after each add spawn is killed to slow them down after respawn. I was Holy for our first attempt there wasn't enough AoE damage for me to feel useful so I took advantage of Disc utility and switched.

#55 RootBreaker

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Posted 29 December 2009 - 07:24 PM

I would delete above post up to and including Jamz2000 post. (Off Topic Thread)


My 10m ICC run consists of me as Disc and a Holy Pally. We two heal everything up to and including Saurfang. First week we three healed Marrow for our first attempt. Ele shaman went resto but wasn't needed. Last week we went through it with Disc priest (me) and a Tree druid. No wipes. No Mark of the crusader were cast. I (disc) cover every debuffed , marked target and assist tank healing. Shield entire raid renew on tanks and using PoM every CD.

Our 25man runs with 1 holy pally 3 priest (2 Disc) 1 holy and 2 tree's. Holy pally heals the tanks. Beacon on one spam healing the other. Me and the other disc priest cover raid bubbles tank healing assist and healing the debuffed , marked targets. Druids are just hotting tanks and hotting debuffed , marked targets. Boomkin in the middle knocking back adds along with ele Shaman on left and right knocking back adds. Hunters laying traps after each add spawn is killed to slow them down after respawn. I was Holy for our first attempt there wasn't enough AoE damage for me to feel useful so I took advantage of Disc utility and switched.

You should follow the same philosophy in your 25 man that you're using in your 10 man, and use more DPS instead of unnecessary healers. We used one of each healer class last week on Saurfang. I shield-spammed the raid (focusing on tanks and second shields on blood boiled people after their weakened soul from their pre-shielding ended), and our resto druid healed any damage that got through that. Our paladin and shaman healed the tank, but the shaman was probably unnecessary. We got our first mark at 3:12, and the boss died 15 seconds later.

#56 Silvos

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Posted 03 January 2010 - 08:11 PM

I would like to ask about how most guilds use priests ? My current guild only uses 2 priests for raids 1 disc and 1 holy . While i see that guilds like ensidia have a whole total of 5-6 priests i understand ofcourse 2 of them are shadow . But still that leaves 4 healing priests . Can anyone help with this ? Or i should ask in the main thread about priests in 3.3 ?

#57 Faye

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 01:33 AM

We usually have 1 holy, myself, and 1 disc. Normally we only use 1 of each just because we have an overabundance of resto druids so more than 1 holy is never needed ...and 1 disc priest is sufficient since we can bring in 2 holy paladins if needed. We have 1 alternate holy priest and no alternates for disc at the moment, just because people want a 'main spot' in the roster and not have to sit out or wait for the 2nd run.

Encounters require different things so for instance Anub we loved being able to bring in 1-2 shadow priests to nuke the boss/adds while serving as wonderful passive heals for the groups they were in. Some encounters we bring 1 or none and bring more melee; since we have other equal buffs provided and/or we just have none on at that moment. As for ICC nothing has shown anything special that needs 'particular' heals.. we easily went in with our main composition and blew threw the content so far. I'm sure there will be some 'special' tweaks or abilities needed down the road of course,or at least I would hope so.

A big factor is what your guild is able to provide, who's on your roster full time, are they good enough to bring to raid. If you have the ability to get people that will wait for days online everyday just to get a spot or be able to make your 'dream raid make up' then great for you /jealous. With good coordination and communication really any composition of heals can work or make due--just might take a little longer or be a little more frustrating. :)

#58 Omerra

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 04:43 AM

Our guild uses 1 shadow priest, 1 holy, and 1 discipline priest. We usually have a lot of resto druids and shamans around, so more than 1 holy really is overkill. Sometimes our holy priest goes to disc if shields really shine in the fight, like in Saurfang, or they both go holy for more raid healing if we have a prot pally for the -3% damage taken buff, like in the Twin Valkyr.

It really just depends on your group composition. Our raid happens to have 2 holy paladins (including me) who show up to every raid, so more than one discipline priest isn't really needed. Yet, our boomkin usually misses a raid or two so the shadow priest provides the +3% hit buff. Your guild should "use" priests to serve the raid's best interests at the moment, and utilize them to fill in "buff holes" that appear in the raid when other people don't show up (Misery, Renewed Hope).

#59 Silvos

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 01:39 PM

Thanks first of all for the responses :) . I am asking since i recently started replaying wow and i have a lot catching up to do .

Our main raid composition is :

2 Holy paladins
1 Resto shamman
1 Resto druid
1 holy priest
1 disc priest

Basically we got 6 good healers that are always there havent really seen anyone offline . However there is another very good priest that wants to join and i am looking to find out how i can make that work without having ppl sit out all the time .

However from what i have been reading here on the forums our setup is pretty much close to optimal and can handle any fight so far . a 7th healer is usually overkill if a fight is executed properly . Non of the priests going shadow is an option as well since we got a shadowpriest that also has 100% attendance .

#60 Faye

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 02:55 PM

O np. Yeah 6 healers is the 'norm' I would say for the average 25 man raid... If the shaman is willing to go dps for the 'set' encounter, it wouldn't be bad at all to run in with the 2 holy priests.When running with multiple holy priests just be sure to set the assignments on who has what groups, that will manage the over healing issues. But sadly it is usually better and way more common to bring more resto druids than holy priests in a raid.-.-

This is the comp. we usually run with (an average encounter with nothing 'out of the ordinary' required' and assuming people all show up Attendance changes everything

1 Holy Priest
1 Disc Priest
2 Resto Druids
1 Holy Paladin
1 Resto Druid




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