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Tanking Spreadsheet 3.3


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#41 Avellyr

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Posted 18 February 2010 - 11:23 PM

I've been gearing my freshly-80 prot warrior, and I downloaded the spreadsheet, but it's been telling me really odd things. For example it says that I should gem defense even though I'm already well over the cap. I just wanted someone to confirm for me what the general gemming priorities are for prot warriors, since the spreadsheet and other sources I've seen seem to disagree. Also, if someone could tell me what's wrong with my spreadsheet that would be great.

I'm posting this here instead of the spreadsheet thread because I figure it has a simple answer that I don't see.

Edit: I'm pretty sure that the problem is with my weights, but I don't really know what I should set them to for a general-purpose 10-man and heroic gear set. I'm far below the point where I would ever have to gear for a specific boss (I think).

#42 Krc

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 12:05 AM

Generally with the spreadsheet Avellyr you are going to want to look at Burst Time to Live and slightly adjust the armor to stamina ratio at 1 stam = 11 armor. This is because there are bosses such as Festergut where you cannot kill the encounter if you can't survive a certain burst while you can still make it pass an encounter such as DBS if you have low survival time or damage. I still suggest that you make gear sets for different bosses if you have trouble with them, but make sure you put your best pieces into Burst Time to Live.

#43 MacNugget

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Posted 06 March 2010 - 11:53 PM

Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer is a prime example of how this sort of spreadsheet can be turned into a web based form. It's truly awesome... You can play with it anywhere, even on your iPhone (on any web compatible platform).

Is there any chance you could move this spreadsheet to a web based form too?

#44 Krishnakh

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 11:41 PM

Whoops, left some of the boss overrides on. Fixed, and updated the T10 tank armor.

bam


actually "Sanctified Ymirjar Lord's Breastplate (H)", "Sanctified Ymirjar Lord's Breastplate", "Sanctified Ymirjar Lord's Handguards (H)" and "Sanctified Ymirjar Lord's Handguards" are still missing the bonus armor. (wotlk_war_prot_2010_01_26b.ods)

#45 ZorbaTHut

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 06:53 PM

Whoa hey someone resurrected the thread.

I may go through it and update the recent armor values, since I'm just getting back into raiding. Look for it in a few weeks at best, though, my time's been really cramped.

Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer is a prime example of how this sort of spreadsheet can be turned into a web based form. It's truly awesome... You can play with it anywhere, even on your iPhone (on any web compatible platform).

Is there any chance you could move this spreadsheet to a web based form too?


Zero chance, unless someone else does the infrastructure for me. I don't much enjoy web work - it's the model I find interesting.

There's a substantially higher chance that I end up turning it into a Rawr plugin. If I do, it'll be post-Cataclysm. Either way, the spreadsheet won't be maintained by me after that (though anyone else is welcome to pick it up.)

#46 Gulvak

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Posted 07 August 2010 - 12:06 AM

Hey I was just kind of messing around with this. I have a kind of bad question though, why is the The Black Heart rated so above everything else? I mean the sheet seems to assign it even more value than the Heroic 25 man Sindragosa drop. I was just kind of curious about this. Is there some in depth trinket analysis I'm missing?

#47 ZorbaTHut

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 06:26 AM

Hey I was just kind of messing around with this. I have a kind of bad question though, why is the The Black Heart rated so above everything else? I mean the sheet seems to assign it even more value than the Heroic 25 man Sindragosa drop. I was just kind of curious about this. Is there some in depth trinket analysis I'm missing?


The spreadsheet doesn't model resistances in any fashion, so the Sindragosa trinket on-use ability is given zero value. It ends up comparing the Sindragosa trinket's stamina against The Black Heart's stamina and on-use ability, and Armor is a really really good stat, so The Black Heart ends up rated extremely high.

Additionally, not-always-up procs aren't penalized in any fashion, the spreadsheet just takes the "average bonus". It's tough to figure out how much a not-always-up proc should be penalized, since the tank can't choose when to focus it and there's a good chance it will be down when the tank needs it most. This is probably suboptimal and gives a further boost to The Black Heart.

#48 Krishnakh

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 12:28 PM

"Boots of Kingly Upheaval" are missing the 51 hit rating in wotlk_war_prot_2010_01_26b.ods

Is there still a chance you will update the spreadsheet? Would be great. :)

#49 Taliafears

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 07:10 PM

Cataclysm is different enough that I'm doubtless going to be getting into tank modeling again. Like Zorba, my feeling is that the spreadsheet format has come about as far as it can, and it butts up against some serious limitations and usability issues. I wanted to turn this into a web application long ago (I write them for a living), but every time I got started I allowed myself to bloat the scope of the project until it wasn't feasible anymore.

It's the usability issues that I think can be improved by Rawr or a web application - balancing average time-to-live against burst and both of those against threat capability is always going to be problematic. The only way to really solve that is to very accurately model the mechanics of a boss fight, which is next to impossible in a spreadsheet, but still quite hard in a programming language.

It's sounding like Cataclysm will simplify things a little, with the developers stating their intention for tank health pools to be typically larger than 2 or 3 hits from a boss. That will allow us to focus on average damage intake, and then adjust threat up to match the dps with whom we raid.

One last note - my considered opinion on "on use" trinkets is that it is best to use them whenever the cooldown is up. I find that in situations where I know I am going to take a lot of damage, I hit Shield Wall, Last Stand, or even Enraged Regen before I use a trinket. They just aren't powerful enough to save your life in one of those situations. A DPS trinket with an "on use" is a very different thing, because they get MORE powerful when combined with your other cooldowns. A tank trinket is utterly wasted when used in combination with Shield Wall.

There are also many situations where the dangerous burst could come at any moment, faster than you could react, so using the trinket on cooldown provides a chance to prevent one of those deadly bursts.

Additionally, if you DO decide to use them at crucial moments, their uptime is going to be greatly reduced - the advantage of correct timing is counterbalanced by reduced uptime. So modeling them based on maximum uptime is still roughly appropriate.

#50 Eetabeetay

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 12:20 PM

The PvP shoulder enchant is missing.

Edit: I also think it would be great if there was a row under stats that calculates your effective health.




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