Jump to content


Photo

Rawr.Hunter Thread


  • Please log in to reply
39 replies to this topic

#1 Jothay

Jothay

    Suit Up

  •  Patrons
  • 105 posts

Posted 15 December 2009 - 08:14 AM

Current Release: Rawr 2.3.22 | Rawr 3.3.22 Beta

PLEASE check out the Rawr3 Beta as we're getting close to release and need as many bug submission reports as possible to get her ready!

Why should I use Rawr?
Rawr is not meant to replace Shandara's sheet. It is meant to be used in conjunction with it. Any major discrepancy between Rawr and Shandara's sheet should be reported to me for investigation before you move on and waste gold/time/materials on what could be a bug. We have not had the exposure that Shandara has had, and so bugs are still possible.

Shandara's spreadsheet is fantastic. I'm an avid user of it. However, nothing is perfect, and Shandara has had bugs in the past. Having a second tool that simulates Hunter DPS will help make both tools better, as discrepancies could mean a bug in Rawr, or it could mean a bug in Shandara's sheet.

Also, there are a lot of features that come with the Rawr package that you just can't get in a spreadsheet due to technical limitations. For one, Rawr will let you flag all the items/gems/enchants/buffs that you have available, and automatically optimize itself to tell you the best items to wear and the best way to gem/enchant them. It removes a lot of the guesswork needed by finding the best solution for you. You can also set parameters that you want to optimize on, such as maintaining a certain buffed health, crit chance, miss chance, or resist rate.

Rawr also has custom combat options you can set if you're optimizing for a specific fight. While some of these options are still in the works for Hunter, they are definitely on the way. You can set how long you're attacking the boss from behind, how often you need to move out of combat range, how often you may be feared/stunned, and how often you're able to hit multiple targets. It also provides custom calculations for maintaining buffs or debuffs on the raid. If you need to maintain Hunters Mark, specific stings, etc, Rawr will replace global cooldowns with those abilities, decreasing your DPS and providing value to talents/glyphs that increase their duration.

Rawr does not use AEP in its gear ranking. When it's telling you how much of a DPS increase each item is, it does so by actually swapping the item into your current gear and calculating how much your DPS increases. It also has a feature to evaluate the strength of an upgrade based on other items you may have sitting in your bags (ie, you're at the hit cap already, but if you pick up that new belt with hit, you can swap out your hit gem and your hit ring for a larger upgrade). This takes only a few clicks; no more manually swapping your gear around to find out if that new belt is an actual upgrade!

What Rawr Doesn't Do
It wouldn't be fair to Shandara if I touted all the things that Rawr does better without also explaining what Shandara's sheet does better.

1) It is much easier to make changes to Shandara's sheet than it is to make changes to Rawr. Rawr is open source, but it's written in CSharp; if you don't know CSharp or you don't have Visual Studio, you won't be able to make changes to the actual calculations. However, you can still create new items or change procs/trinket use effects to your hearts content.

2) It's more difficult to find specific errors in Rawr for the same reason as it is to make changes (see #1). If you have a CSharp IDE and can step through code, it's very easy to find/fix bugs, but if you do not then Rawr will be more of a black box than Shandara's sheet is.

3) Shandara's rotation setup is basically what is being used in Rawr, which has some rather serious issues when it comes to a large number of edge cases. We do have a solution for this, it just takes a lot of time to implement and we're not going to make it live until it's close to fully functional for minimal impact to the end users. That's not to say that Shandara's or the current code used in Rawr is 'wrong' just that it doesn't play well under certain conditions.
4) Shandara is the author of both the MM, BM and Surv hunter modules of his spreadsheet. I am the Arms programmer for Rawr, and now the Hunter programmer for Rawr. Unfortunately, I'm not as familiar with Hunter rotations and talents as I am with Arms work so it's taking some adjustment to fully learn the Hunter Mindsets.

Conclusion
I'd like to start gathering feedback from the community. Do people find this utility useful? What bugs have you found? What new features would you like to see?

Getting Help
Please feel free at any time to ask questions here on this thread regarding Rawr.Hunter. However, before doing so, please note that we have several resources at our disposal that may be able to answer your question before publicly asking it.

  • The Rawr Discussions Page: This is easily searchable and answers a lot of questions right off the bat. Chances are, if you are asking it, someone else already has.
  • The Rawr Issue Tracker: Use this to report issues with Hunter and the Base Rawr program. Be sure to check both Open and previously Closed issues before posting a new one.
  • The Hunter Options Pane in Rawr: In here there's an entire section dedicated to How to Use Hunter (for Basic and Advanced Users), Frequently Asked Questions, and the Patch Notes. MANY questions can be answered simply by reading through these.
---------------------
Notes about current release

Known Bugs
  • Haste can be spiky in it's value. This is because certain levels of haste can fit an extra attack into a rotation, which has stronger impacts on DPS changes than normal. The new rotation system on the way will correct this issue.
  • Readiness and similar talents can jump in value at certain Fight durations or have no value in others. This will be corrected by the new rotation code.
  • When a lot of settings are changed to custom at the same time, the model slows down. Performance is something we are definitely looking at improving all the time but there are other concerns that are taking a higher priority right now.
---------------------
Regarding Cataclysm
A question burning in everyone's mind is when are we going to support the changes that are occurring in Cataclysm such as the Mastery system and class changes? Well, we are hoping to bring Rawr3 out of Beta in the next 30 days and from that point we'll begin a branch in the code for Cata changes. A Rawr4 Beta should start a few weeks before Cata's release.
Come see the Rawr Project for all World of Warcraft Classes and Specs!
- Astrylian: Project Coordinator, Bear & Cat Dev
- Jothay: Project Coordinator & Arms Warrior Dev

#2 Hirgux

Hirgux

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 60 posts

Posted 16 December 2009 - 02:17 PM

I have not found anything in the item editor; how is zod bow proc calculated?

#3 Harwin

Harwin

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 222 posts

Posted 16 December 2009 - 03:43 PM

After adding talents to my pet I still didn't see "Call of the Wild" as an option to activate(my pet had the talents, but it didn't show up on the rotation list)

#4 Aker

Aker

    Great Tiger

  • Members
  • 937 posts

Posted 16 December 2009 - 06:04 PM

How does Rawr approach Mjolnir Runestone and Needle Encrusted Scorpion with regards to the ArP? As a data point, with my gear, pet spec, raid buffs and nearly every gem selected, Rawr suggests I equip both the Runestone and Scorpion as a slight upgrade to Runestone/Darkmoon Card Greatness

Also, Rawr suggests I gem over the ArP softcap, currently I'm 5 over the softcap, but Rawr suggests I regem ArP. Interestingly, the more times you iterate it, the more ArP it suggests. Even with Runestone and Scorpion equipped.

#5 Jothay

Jothay

    Suit Up

  •  Patrons
  • 105 posts

Posted 16 December 2009 - 06:18 PM

I have not found anything in the item editor; how is zod bow proc calculated?


We did not have any handling in place for this weapon in the current version. I just created some handling for it (normal and heroic versions), but it won't be visible to the naked eye on the item itself. However I'm adding a tooltip to the Hunter DPS listing on the Stats Pane that will show up when you have the Item Equipped.

After adding talents to my pet I still didn't see "Call of the Wild" as an option to activate (my pet had the talents, but it didn't show up on the rotation list)


Call of the Wild is being handled on the back end without needing to add it to the pet rotation.

How does Rawr approach Mjolnir Runestone and Needle Encrusted Scorpion with regards to the ArP? As a data point, with my gear, pet spec, raid buffs and nearly every gem selected, Rawr suggests I equip both the Runestone and Scorpion as a slight upgrade to Runestone/Darkmoon Card Greatness

Also, Rawr suggests I gem over the ArP softcap, currently I'm 5 over the softcap, but Rawr suggests I regem ArP. Interestingly, the more times you iterate it, the more ArP it suggests. Even with Runestone and Scorpion equipped.


Individually, any trinket that provide an ArP Proc (Incisor Fragment, Grim Toll, Mjolnir's Runestone, Needle Encrusted Scorpion) will be limited by the ArP cap. That is, if your ArP% is at 75% and your MR procs, MR can only fill up to 25% and the rest goes to waste.

If you have two trinkets at the same time, the model is assuming that you are "off-setting" the trinkets so they can't proc at the same time (therefore never hitting an overlap). I will eventually implement a specific offset timing feature like there is in Cat but I'm a ways off from that right now.

My recommendation? Don't equip 2 ArP proc'g trinkets at the same time.

As for it equipping ArP gems past the soft cap, that will happen, there's no hardset rule that forces it to not allow more ArP past the soft cap. Is this just the Comparison Pane that is saying one of the ArP Gemming Templates is better than an AGI Template or is it the Optimizer that is trying to put 2 ArP trinkets on and still regem everything as ArP? If so, please open an issue in our Issue Tracker and post your Character File (before and after) so I can see what happens.
Come see the Rawr Project for all World of Warcraft Classes and Specs!
- Astrylian: Project Coordinator, Bear & Cat Dev
- Jothay: Project Coordinator & Arms Warrior Dev

#6 Harwin

Harwin

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 222 posts

Posted 16 December 2009 - 07:26 PM

If you're handling Call of the Wild on the back end - what makes it sync with my other cooldowns?

e.g. I only activate at the same time I pop Rapid Fire and a trinket.

#7 Jothay

Jothay

    Suit Up

  •  Patrons
  • 105 posts

Posted 16 December 2009 - 07:28 PM

We're not handling sync'd cooldowns in the manner that you reference. Right now, it's just activating it the second it's off cooldown.
Come see the Rawr Project for all World of Warcraft Classes and Specs!
- Astrylian: Project Coordinator, Bear & Cat Dev
- Jothay: Project Coordinator & Arms Warrior Dev

#8 Aker

Aker

    Great Tiger

  • Members
  • 937 posts

Posted 17 December 2009 - 12:52 AM

My recommendation? Don't equip 2 ArP proc'g trinkets at the same time.

As for it equipping ArP gems past the soft cap, that will happen, there's no hardset rule that forces it to not allow more ArP past the soft cap. Is this just the Comparison Pane that is saying one of the ArP Gemming Templates is better than an AGI Template or is it the Optimizer that is trying to put 2 ArP trinkets on and still regem everything as ArP? If so, please open an issue in our Issue Tracker and post your Character File (before and after) so I can see what happens.


The general wisdom right now is don't equip two ArP trinkets at the same time, I was pointing out that Rawr was recommending it. I was hoping Rawr handled the procs in a Simulation manner, where the differing proc rates give partial double up-time and partial non-overlapping up-time. I'm not really looking for gearing suggestions, but trying to point out where Rawr suggests non-optimal solutions.

The comparison pane is actually all over the place, I don't have Rawr set up right now on this computer, but the comparison pane went ArP, AP, Agil in general.

The optimizer is what is suggesting ArP gems in lieu of Agil gems, but again, if I run the optimizer at the less iterations level, fewer gems are suggested as ArP gems, then sliding it to more iterations suggests more ArP gems, with 1 AP gem suggested. When I'm back on my other computer I'll post the files.

Also, with regards to CotW it's pretty common for hunters to sync it with Rapid Fire or Heroism.

#9 Torque-AR

Torque-AR

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 2 posts

Posted 17 December 2009 - 11:52 AM

Using the optimization function, Rawr always recommends replacing most of my gems with INT gems. What am I doing wrong? Do I need to deselect INT gems as a possibility?

#10 Jothay

Jothay

    Suit Up

  •  Patrons
  • 105 posts

Posted 18 December 2009 - 09:28 AM

Using the optimization function, Rawr always recommends replacing most of my gems with INT gems. What am I doing wrong? Do I need to deselect INT gems as a possibility?


If you are getting recommendations for stats like Intellect and Mp5 you are getting close to or are hitting OoM in your fight and you need more mana or mana regen. Check your Aspect of the Viper setting on the Options panel to see if you are not using it, using it 'just enough' or getting all the way to full mana. Also, check what Buffs you have selected as these make a HUGE difference in how long you can last in a fight. Other than that, stack some more mana so you can maintain your rotation for the entire fight.
Come see the Rawr Project for all World of Warcraft Classes and Specs!
- Astrylian: Project Coordinator, Bear & Cat Dev
- Jothay: Project Coordinator & Arms Warrior Dev

#11 Midnight

Midnight

    Don Flamenco

  • Members
  • 378 posts

Posted 18 December 2009 - 02:24 PM

The Hand-Mounted Pyro Rocket doesn´t seem to be modelled right. It says it´s 0 dps even though the description is fine (1837 Fire Damage (45 Sec)).
FaceShooter - a hunter shot recommendation AddOn
The optimism of action is better than the pessimism of thought.
- Greenpeace UK

#12 Jothay

Jothay

    Suit Up

  •  Patrons
  • 105 posts

Posted 18 December 2009 - 06:01 PM

The Hand-Mounted Pyro Rocket doesn't seem to be modelled right. It says it is 0 dps even though the description is fine (1837 Fire Damage (45 Sec)).


None of the X Damage procs where X is Fire, Arcane, Shadow, etc. are modeled and probably aren't going to be. The tool tip reads fine as I went ahead and left the 'stats' they provide as relevant to the model.
Come see the Rawr Project for all World of Warcraft Classes and Specs!
- Astrylian: Project Coordinator, Bear & Cat Dev
- Jothay: Project Coordinator & Arms Warrior Dev

#13 foox

foox

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 10 posts

Posted 19 December 2009 - 02:13 PM

There seems to be something wrong with the pet calculations.

Trying to match the settings for buffs, rotations, fight length etc. it shows "Pet DPS" as 1914 (for my current MM spec). On the spreadsheed I see 1179, which is pretty close to what I see in game in (almost) optimal fights.

The second thing is, that I see a slight _increase_ in pet/hunter DPS when I _remove_ Furious Howl from the pet rotation.

#14 Jothay

Jothay

    Suit Up

  •  Patrons
  • 105 posts

Posted 20 December 2009 - 01:19 AM

There seems to be something wrong with the pet calculations.

Trying to match the settings for buffs, rotations, fight length etc. it shows "Pet DPS" as 1914 (for my current MM spec). On the spreadsheed I see 1179, which is pretty close to what I see in game in (almost) optimal fights.

The second thing is, that I see a slight _increase_ in pet/hunter DPS when I _remove_ Furious Howl from the pet rotation.


Thank you for alerting me to this, we do have an open ticket on the issue tracker about the Pet DPS being too high, which is something I noticed and was working to helkp settle it down. However the Furious Howl point I was unaware of. Would you mind going here and attaching your XML file and post a comment about the Furious Howl change?
Come see the Rawr Project for all World of Warcraft Classes and Specs!
- Astrylian: Project Coordinator, Bear & Cat Dev
- Jothay: Project Coordinator & Arms Warrior Dev

#15 Surreal-Tortheldrin

Surreal-Tortheldrin

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 20 December 2009 - 05:53 AM

I start plugging in my stats and I noticed something big. Apparently beast mastery DPS has pulled up past Survival/Marksman on rawr 3.2(The newest version)

Is this a bug?
Or is it working as intended?

#16 Oen

Oen

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 5 posts

Posted 21 December 2009 - 11:56 PM

A problem I noticed with the latest version of Rawr.Hunter is that most of the default specs in its system use very unusual glyph selections for each spec. Changing these glyphs manually gives more accurate results. But is it right that the Glyph of Aimed Shot is actually a dps loss? Because that's what I'm getting a lot when looking at glyph comparisons for assorted MM specs, that my dps actually goes down if I equip Glyph of Aimed Shot.

#17 Jothay

Jothay

    Suit Up

  •  Patrons
  • 105 posts

Posted 22 December 2009 - 12:58 AM

A problem I noticed with the latest version of Rawr.Hunter is that most of the default specs in its system use very unusual glyph selections for each spec. Changing these glyphs manually gives more accurate results. But is it right that the Glyph of Aimed Shot is actually a dps loss? Because that's what I'm getting a lot when looking at glyph comparisons for assorted MM specs, that my dps actually goes down if I equip Glyph of Aimed Shot.


The default specs do need their glyphs fixed, yes.

Some glyphs/talents show - values for all or part of their DPS because of the broke-ass rotation system that's being used. They may not actually be negative. However, some of these ARE negative because they may mean that you are using one shot more often than another, and that other shot was working towards the uptime of some buff you can proc.
Come see the Rawr Project for all World of Warcraft Classes and Specs!
- Astrylian: Project Coordinator, Bear & Cat Dev
- Jothay: Project Coordinator & Arms Warrior Dev

#18 Jothay

Jothay

    Suit Up

  •  Patrons
  • 105 posts

Posted 23 December 2009 - 11:38 AM

To clarify my comment regarding the "broke-ass" rotation:

The rotation system inside of Rawr.Hunter is basically utilizing a decision tree, looped through a duration of a fight. While this sounds like a good idea in theory, it can have some not-so-great side effects like what I mentioned in the previous post and what many users see in Rawr for Talent calculations and the like.

It's not a "bad" thing, it's just not the most ideal process of calculating the number of times an ability is used over a duration as what we all would like it to be. There's more than one way to skin a cat, and and unfortunately the current way can leave some blood on the walls, even though it gets the job done. (Sorry for the gruesome analogy)

I am working on generating a new rotation process that operates on a "proc settling" loop like we have in DPSWarr (which has worked wonders) but I have much to do before I can implement such a process, such as setting/verifying the correct Hunter/Pet stats, creating an entire (much more easily manageable) class based ability system, deciding what all has to be handled model-side vs base-side, updating Hunter to utilize new program methodologies discovered in other models for efficiency and memory/processor saving.

All-in-all, we're well on our way and please forgive me if I make a few mis-steps along the way to making you the "perfect" Hunter model. =^)
Come see the Rawr Project for all World of Warcraft Classes and Specs!
- Astrylian: Project Coordinator, Bear & Cat Dev
- Jothay: Project Coordinator & Arms Warrior Dev

#19 Jothay

Jothay

    Suit Up

  •  Patrons
  • 105 posts

Posted 24 August 2010 - 07:10 PM

We just released a new version last night (Rawr 2.3.22 and Rawr 3.3.22) which include a host of fixes and UI improvements for Hunter. Please check these out as soon as possible and let me know if there are any burning issues.

This especially goes for Rawr3 because the Hunter UI has been (almost) completed there and should be fully usable. I especially love the new Pet Talent Picker which works just like the real talent picker now instead of a series of comboboxes.

From the users that I've been bringing into it now, the immediate reports included: "Oh WOW it actually WORKS now!"

Enjoy!
Come see the Rawr Project for all World of Warcraft Classes and Specs!
- Astrylian: Project Coordinator, Bear & Cat Dev
- Jothay: Project Coordinator & Arms Warrior Dev

#20 iJax

iJax

    Banned

  • Banned
  • 8 posts

Posted 25 August 2010 - 09:23 AM

I run the Gear optimizers on both RAWR and the Spreadsheet, each give completely different gear suggestions.

RAWR is telling me to go with the 4pc T10 (T10.5 on Head, Legs and Chest. While T10 on shoulders) gemming Agility and Hit on yellow sockets to make hit cap.

Spreadsheet is telling me 2pc T10 (T10.5 Head, T10 Shoulder) going with Carapace chest and Northern lights legs. Carapace Chest makes Hit cap and the Northern Lights legs are higher DPS overall then the T10.5 legs.

Just wondering if there is a setting I am missing on RAWR. I am using the 3.3.22 beta.

Seems RAWR is either giving too much weight to the 4pc bonus, or the Spreadsheet is not giving it enough.

FYI- It would be nice to have a drop down selection box to just one click 25 or 10 man raid buffs. Then we could just look over the checked boxes to customize it if needed.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users