Jump to content


Photo

Shadowpriest Theorycraft 3.3 Edition - I get by with a little help from my friends


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
253 replies to this topic

#1 Mearis

Mearis

    Mr. Sandman

  • Members
  • 5,455 posts

Posted 16 December 2009 - 12:09 AM

Apologies about the delay in getting the 3.3 thread out - I with christmas parties/new patch and studying, things have been a bit hectic.

Thankfully, Horky did most of the work and prepared a very well formatted OP that I just updated slightly, so huge thanks to him.


Rotation
Opening Sequence:
Depending on if you have to run in or not, things vary slightly, however, the typical opening sequence is something like this:

Vampiric Touch
Devouring Plague
3 Tick Mindflay
Then SW:P

Alternative opening sequences include:
Casting a SW: P to get misery up, then recasting it later on (this is very viable if you are running in and need 2 GCD to position yourself)

or

3 Tick Mindflay
2 Tick Mindflay
Then full dots - this is a very viable opening sequence if you have several 45 second ICD abilities and want to proc them with mindflay before dotting.

During the fight:

Single Target
Priority:
* Ensure that Misery is up.
* Recast Shadow Word: Pain at 5x Shadow Weaving.
* Vampiric Touch
* Devouring Plague
* Mind Blast
* Mind Flay

1. Mind Blast on cooldown.
2. Cast Mind Flay when everything else is up or on cooldown.
3. Use Shadow Word Death to deal damage while moving

AoE

3 mobs:
Dot everything and then assist or focus.

More than 3 mobs:
Vampiric Touch freely and then Mind Sear, rotating the target of Mind Sear.
Vampiric Touch is almost always worth casting over Mind Sear, unless you are AoE'ing a lot of very low hit point adds.


Talent Specs

[table=head]Spec|Talents
Cookie Cutter|13/0/58

Optional Talents

You can take away the point in focused mind and put it in inner focus (I like to do this for added utility with divine hymn) or in psychic horror for random utility during trash.

For fights where you will use mindsear a lot, 3/3 focused mind is a must have. If your guild is progressing on heroic Anub 25, I highly recommend ditching 2 points in improved VE and maxing out focused mind.

Recommended Glyphs

Major Glyphs




Minor


Optional Glyphs






is very very useful on several fights where you will use it a lot. Again, for Anub I reccomend ditching the glyph of mindflay for the glyph of mindsear, depending on which strategy you use to tank the adds.


Professions

[table=head]Profession|EP
Engineering|60
Jewelcrafting|48
Blacksmithing|46
Leatherworking|46
Enchanting|46
Inscription|46
Alchemy|46
Tailoring|44


This is how many spell power equivalent points each profession is worth. Keep in mind, engineering also gives you the very useful rocket boots, and the value of tailoring/engineering increases massively if the fight length lines up well with your 45 second ICD.

Enchants

Regular Enchants
[table=head]Slot|Enchant
Weapon|Enchant Weapon - Mighty Spellpower
|Enchant Staff - Greater Spellpower
|Enchant Weapon - Black Magic*
Helm|
Shoulders|
Chest|Enchant Chest - Powerful Stats
Cloak|Enchant Cloak - Greater Speed
Bracers|Enchant Bracers - Superior Spellpower
Gloves|Enchant Gloves - Exceptional Spellpower
Legs|
Boots|Enchant Boots - Tuskarr's Vitality
Belt|


Do not ever think of getting icewalker on boots. The nitro boots are an OK trade off, but run speed on boots is a must.

Profession Only Enchants
[table=head]Profession|Enchant
Leatherworking|Fur Lining - Spell Power
Inscription|Master's Inscription of the Storm
Enchanting|Enchant Ring - Greater Spellpower
Blacksmithing|Socket Bracer
|Socket Gloves
Engineering|Hyperspeed Accelerators
|Nitro Boosts
|Springy Arachnoweave
Tailoring|Lightweave Embroidery


Gems

[table=head]Type|Gem
Meta|
JC Only|
Red|
Yellow|
Blue|

TL;DR version:
Gem pure spell power in red sockets (23 spell power)
Gem spell power/haste in yellow sockets (~23 spell power, depends on gear)
Gem spellpower/spirit in blue sockets (~17 spell power) only if the socket bonus is better at the very least 6 damage. You need two blue gems anyway for the crit meta gem that you will want to use.


Consumables

[table=head]Type|Item
Flask|
Food|
|
|
Potion|
|


Raid Buffs/Debuffs

[table=head]Buff/Debuff|Talent/Ability
Spell Critical Strike Chance Buff|Moonkin Aura, Elemental Oath
Spell Critical Strike Chance Debuff|Improved Scorch, Winter's Chill, Improved Shadow Bolt
Spell Damage Debuff|Ebon Plaguebringer, Earth and Moon, Curse of Elements
Spell Hit Debuff|Improved Faerie Fire, Misery
Haste Buff (All types)|Improved Moonkin Aura, Swift Retribution
Damage Buff (All types)|Ferocious Inspiration, Sanctified Retribution
Critical Strike Chance Debuff (All types)|Heart of the Crusader, Totem of Wrath, Master Poisoner
Percentage Stat Buff|Blessing of Kings
Additive Stat Buff|Mark of the Wild


Combat Ratings

Combat Rating Table

[table=head]Rating|Conversion to 1%
Crit|45.9
Hit|26.23
Haste|32.79


Hit Rating

The following values assume that you have 3/3 Shadow Focus, 3/3 Misery and that you are attacking a level 83 mob (i.e., boss level).

[table=head]Buffs|Total|Percentage
None|288.55|11%
Heroic Presence (Draenei)|262.32|10%


Sample EP Weights
These EPs were taken from shadowpriest.com and based on SimCraft. They are just an estimation at this time.

[table=head]Stat|Combat EP
SP|1.00
Hit|1.41
Haste|1.00
Crit|0.88
Spirit|0.58
Int|0.27


[table=head]Set Bonus|Combat EP
T8 2/5|114.13
T8 4/5|149.56
T9 2/5|111.32
T9 4/5|87.15
T10 2/5|194.0
T10 4/5|376.0


Armor - Items - World of Warcraft


Gear

There is an in-depth discussion of gearing at shadowpriest.com • View topic - Best Raiding Gear 3.3 Edition

And please use these tools to tailor gearing choices to your own character:
Simcraft
Rawr

#2 Mearis

Mearis

    Mr. Sandman

  • Members
  • 5,455 posts

Posted 16 December 2009 - 12:14 AM

Any additional suggestions are welcome - I wanted to reserve this post to condense some information about theorycraft for some of the value of the newer ICC items, and an executive summary of dos and do nots for people who are new to the class to immediately read.

#3 Bowchikabow

Bowchikabow

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 65 posts

Posted 16 December 2009 - 08:11 AM

On the subject of orange gem choices.

As I have been looking through the gear available (to include teir10), I am noticing that there is an incredible amount of haste rating in alot of it. While there have been fewer choice selections with crit, except for such peices like Ring of Rapid Ascent that have crit..but also have haste. Because of this, and because of how much haste I all ready have just from gear (715), I have been gemming Potent Ametrine in my yellow sockets.

As a question: Is it vitally important to reach 800 haste (which many have stated to be the cap for haste)? Or is it better to sit on just the haste from gear given the amount of upgrades that are currently/soon to be available and instead continue gemming crit?

I did notice that Potent Ametrine are not mentioned in the preferred gemming.

#4 Aranellis

Aranellis

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 2 posts

Posted 16 December 2009 - 08:43 AM

I understood the best opening was VT>MB>DP>MF3>SWP, did i read some wrong things? It is to proc replenishment early and heard it was a bit higher damage than skipping MB, plus with 2p t9 the timers/cd collide a lot less from what i have noticed, instead of VT>DP>MF3>SWP.

Oh and you mistaken the link to scarlet ruby instead of cardinal ruby.

#5 Enreekay

Enreekay

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 19 posts

Posted 16 December 2009 - 08:54 AM

As fight length increases, the first spells you cast matter less and less. The important thing is that you reach 5 stacks of shadow weaving when you roll SWP

#6 Aranellis

Aranellis

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 2 posts

Posted 16 December 2009 - 09:07 AM

Well yes true, i know that, but less collides always lead to higher dps over time even if the first sequence is less relevant dmg wise.

#7 Cadfael

Cadfael

    Witch doctors park in gear

  •  Patrons
  • 3,819 posts

Posted 16 December 2009 - 10:03 AM

Proc'ing replenishment early isn't really that important. After all, if you just start the fight I suppose everyone's mana bar is already full and the diference of getting perhaps 100-400 more mana total by doing this isn't that particularly important to me.
"Take the universe and grind it down to the finest powder and sieve it through with the finest sieve and then show me one atom of justice, one molecule of mercy. And yet you act as if there were some sort of rightness in the universe by which it may be judged."

- Discworld: Hogfather


#8 Pasch

Pasch

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 20 posts

Posted 16 December 2009 - 10:54 AM

I disagree with you on the spell priority you posted. VT and DP both death significantly more damage than SWPain per tick and should therefore be of higher priority than SWPain. '
Might wanna edit Glyph of Mind Sear info to be updated for 3.3 (Anub thing).
I also disagree with you on Icewalker vs. Tuskarr. It's true that Tuskarr's will generally yield more dps on fights with a lot of movement, however, these are very very rare so far. We almost always have spells available to cast while on the move (theorycrafting for Tuskarr's assume dps is 0 while moving I believe, correct me if I'm wrong). On top of that, Shadow Priest survival is so high at the moment I simply don't recall a death in the last 6 months because of slow movement.

#9 Mearis

Mearis

    Mr. Sandman

  • Members
  • 5,455 posts

Posted 16 December 2009 - 10:57 AM

On the subject of orange gem choices.

As I have been looking through the gear available (to include teir10), I am noticing that there is an incredible amount of haste rating in alot of it. While there have been fewer choice selections with crit, except for such peices like Ring of Rapid Ascent that have crit..but also have haste. Because of this, and because of how much haste I all ready have just from gear (715), I have been gemming Potent Ametrine in my yellow sockets.

As a question: Is it vitally important to reach 800 haste (which many have stated to be the cap for haste)? Or is it better to sit on just the haste from gear given the amount of upgrades that are currently/soon to be available and instead continue gemming crit?

I did notice that Potent Ametrine are not mentioned in the preferred gemming.


A few points: Potent Ametrine are not a choice because Reckless Ameterine are always better. There might be some really really wierd gear scenario where crit overtakes haste, but realistically speaking, you are almost always better off gemming for haste.

Second - outside of a few very narrow scenarios, haste has no real cap beyond the 1 second GCD (or 50% haste through buffs and gear). At some values of haste (that depend on your lag) you can sometimes fit a perfect integer number of mindflays between mindblast cooldowns, but due to the effect of haste decreasing dot duration and thus increasing the frequency at which you have to recast dots, this effect is greatly decreased.

Finally, 'aiming for' particular values is silly, outside of obviously capping hit. There is absolutely no reason why you should 'aim' for 3000 spell damage, or 3500 spell damage, or whatever arbitrary value. Get as much spellpower/haste/crit/spirit as possible, and trade between them according to the weights that simcraft gives you.

#10 Frmercury

Frmercury

    Facemelter

  • Members
  • 56 posts

Posted 16 December 2009 - 11:29 AM

Honestly with Black Magic I find it beneficial to open with MB ~ MF (possibly a second in the event it hasn't proced) ~ DP ~ VT ~ SW:P. Opening with VT and DP too early in the rotation will cause BM to proc after they're applied which is a potential DPS loss. For my amount of Haste I have found no rotation conflicts with this opener. Just some food for thought for those who chose to go with BM for their 1H chant.

Also running SimCraft 330.3 at 40,000 iterations, 500sec length, and elite player skill with the following profile:

#!./simc 

priest=Priestt9shadow258haste
origin=http://profiler.wowhead.com/?profile=18101881
level=80
race=night_elf
talents=http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=5&tal=0503203000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000325023051223010323152301351
glyphs=shadow_word_pain/mind_flay/shadow/fortitude/fading/levitate
actions=flask,type=frost_wyrm
actions+=/food,type=fish_feast
actions+=/fortitude
actions+=/divine_spirit
actions+=/inner_fire
actions+=/shadow_form
actions+=/vampiric_embrace
actions+=/snapshot_stats
actions+=/speed_potion
actions+=/shadow_fiend
actions+=/shadow_word_pain,shadow_weaving_wait=1
actions+=/vampiric_touch
actions+=/devouring_plague
actions+=/mind_blast
actions+=/mind_flay
actions+=/shadow_word_death,moving=1
actions+=/dispersion
head=aurora_of_transcendence,stats=269armor_86crit_76haste_150sp_106sta_74int,gems=chaotic_skyflare_12sp_10spi_9sp,enchant=30sp_20crit
neck=wail_of_the_valkyr,stats=57crit_43haste_91sp_65sta_65int,gems=10haste_12sp_5sp
shoulders=velens_mantle_of_triumph,stats=260armor_68crit_124sp_86sta_86int_76spi,gems=10haste_12sp_5sp,enchant=24sp_15crit
chest=skyweaver_robes,stats=347armor_86hit_94haste_151sp_116sta_116int,gems=12sp_10spi_10haste_12sp_23sp_9sp,enchant=10str_10agi_10sta_10int_10spi
waist=cord_of_biting_cold,stats=195armor_58hit_73crit_114sp_86sta_86int,gems=12sp_10spi_23sp_23sp_7sp
legs=velens_pants_of_triumph,stats=303armor_102hit_86haste_160sp_116sta_116int,gems=23sp_12sp_10spi_7sp,enchant=50sp_20spi
feet=boots_of_the_mourning_widow,stats=238armor_68haste_124sp_86sta_86int_76spi,gems=12sp_10spi_23sp_7sp,enchant=15sta
wrists=bejeweled_wizards_bracers,stats=145armor_42crit_50haste_80sp_58sta_58int,gems=23sp,enchant=30sp
hands=gloves_of_the_lifeless_touch,stats=217armor_60crit_76haste_114sp_86sta_86int,gems=12sp_10spi_23sp_7sp,enchant=28sp
finger1=band_of_deplorable_violence,stats=53crit_91sp_65sta_65int_50spi,gems=10haste_12sp_5sp,enchant=23sp
finger2=runed_signet_of_the_kirin_tor,stats=53crit_54haste_94sp_78sta_54int,gems=10haste_12sp,enchant=23sp
trinket1=reign_of_the_unliving,stats=168sp,equip=onspelldirectcrit_2117fire_3stack_2.0cd
trinket2=reign_of_the_unliving,stats=150sp,equip=onspelldirectcrit_1882fire_3stack_2.0cd
back=jainas_radiance,stats=182armor_65crit_57haste_105sp_74sta_74int,gems=23sp_5sp,enchant=lightweave_embroidery
main_hand=miserys_end,stats=44crit_66haste_701sp_66sta_66int,enchant=63sp,weapon=mace_1.80speed_108.12min_342.12max
off_hand=symbol_of_transgression,stats=57hit_57crit_100sp_65sta_65int
ranged=rod_of_imprisoned_souls,stats=31crit_24haste_50sp_40sta_29int
# Gear Summary
# gear_strength=10
# gear_agility=10
# gear_stamina=1218
# gear_intellect=1136
# gear_spirit=293
# gear_spell_power=3220
# gear_hit_rating=303
# gear_crit_rating=745
# gear_haste_rating=744
# gear_armor=2156
# meta_gem=chaotic_skyflare
# tier9_2pc_caster=1
# back=jainas_radiance,enchant=lightweave_embroidery
# main_hand=miserys_end,weapon=mace_1.80speed_108.12min_342.12max

Nets:

                Int	Spi	SP	Hit	Crit	Haste
Scale Factors	0.4472	0.9539	1.6557	2.5573	1.4785	1.5057
Normalized	0.2701	0.5761	1.0000	1.5445	0.8930	0.9094

I chose the profile that I did because Izolight used it when he started the Shadowpriest.com 3.3 BiS List. Another reason is that running my own various gear setups in SimCraft have shown me that sets with very close Haste and Crit ratings typically come out on top for DPS. Lastly most Shadow Priests raiding 25 man content should have a mix of 245, 258, and 264 making an ilvl 258 gearset an approximate mean.

That said I am a bit new to SimCraft, but with the GUI it seems pretty hard to screw up. All the same I would appreciate feedback/ criticisms.

Using the above scaling factors that would make the Gems:
Red
Runed Cardinal Ruby: 23*1 = 23 PP

Yellow
Reckless Ametrine: (12*1) + (10*0.9094) ~ 12 + 9.1 ~ 21.1 PP
Making it worth gemming over Runed Cardinal Ruby if the Socket Bonus is >= 2 SP, >= 3 Haste, >= 3 Crit

Blue
Purified Dreadstone: (12*1) + (10*0.5761) ~ 12 + 5.8 ~ 17.8 PP
Making it worth gemming over Runed Cardinal Ruby if the Socket Bonus is >= 6 SP, >= 6 Haste, >= 6 Crit. After the 2 highest PP Blue Socket Bonuses for the Meta are taken.

I am gemming Prurified Dreadstones in >= 5 SP socket bonuses because I'm ok with taking the 1 PP hit for a bit more passive regen, but that's purely personal preference.

I am also wondering about what would be the best way to go about calculating the Haste PP at the different levels?
Thanks

#11 Elimbras

Elimbras

    Don Flamenco

  • Members
  • 477 posts

Posted 16 December 2009 - 11:33 AM

You might want to add intellect (and stamina and spirit) to additive stats raid buffs

#12 Mearis

Mearis

    Mr. Sandman

  • Members
  • 5,455 posts

Posted 16 December 2009 - 11:40 AM

Surprised to see crit and haste so close. Probably using black magic pushes the value of crit up a lot.

#13 Frmercury

Frmercury

    Facemelter

  • Members
  • 56 posts

Posted 16 December 2009 - 11:46 AM

Surprised to see crit and haste so close. Probably using black magic pushes the value of crit up a lot.


Profiler - Wowhead

+63 SP to 1H was used for this profile (for consistency would be my guess).

On the topic of Crit and Haste being so close I believe it has more to do with how close the ratings on the gear are. With raid buffs they come out to be roughly the same Percentages as well. Balance produces equality from what Simcraft is putting out.

#14 Elimbras

Elimbras

    Don Flamenco

  • Members
  • 477 posts

Posted 16 December 2009 - 01:48 PM

Now that all spells benefit from crit with 100% increased damage, and that haste benefits (nearly) all spells, the following "basic" model holds pretty well (as far that haste and crit are concerned):

 Dps = BaseDPS * ( 1 + \%_{Crit} ) * (1 + \%_{Haste} )

Introducing combat ratings and coefficients, this leads to (where %_{BaseCrit} means the Crit percents than comes from Intellect / talents / buffs):
 Dps = BaseDPS * \left( 1 + \frac{CritRating}{4591} + \%_{BaseCrit}\right) * \left(1 + \frac{HasteRating}{3279} + \%_{BaseHaste\right)

Now, the gain in dps from 1 rating is the partial derivative, which are respectively

 \frac{\partial DPS}{\partial Crit} = BaseDPS * (1 + \%_{Haste} ) * \frac{1}{4591}
 \frac{\partial DPS}{\partial Haste} = BaseDPS * (1 + \%_{Crit} ) * \frac{1}{3279}

With equal effective Crit and Haste percentage, Haste is better than Crit, by a factor equal to 4591/3279 = 1.4 .
With higher (resp. lower) effective haste, this factor decreases (resp. increases).

Finally, Crit has a slightly better solution in live than in this model, because it can crit on SW:P (whereas haste is no use for that spell), because haste doesn't decrease the cd of MB, and because latency is usually a bad factor for short spells (and therefore haste).
Similarly, I guess (but I'm too lazy to check) that there is more temporary haste buffs (as bloodlust / blackmagic / Power Infusion) than temporary crit buffs. Crit can also triggers Glyph of Shadow and IST (if you took it).

For this reasons, I'm not so surprized to see crit and haste not too far away, as long as you don't have more crit than haste.

#15 bunga

bunga

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 16 December 2009 - 03:37 PM

The TBC enchant "Major Spirit" (+15 Spirit on chest) now provides a slightly higher dps increase than Powerful Stats and could be listed as a viable alternative.

#16 Evilpig

Evilpig

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 6 posts

Posted 16 December 2009 - 05:10 PM

Surprised to see crit and haste so close. Probably using black magic pushes the value of crit up a lot.


also increases the value of crit over a gear set that doesn't include it.

#17 Graf

Graf

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 30 posts

Posted 16 December 2009 - 05:55 PM

Do not ever think of getting icewalker on boots. The nitro boots are an OK trade off, but run speed on boots is a must.

This is a kinda harsh statement, noone can prove it. Besides that, pro people move on GCD and 12 crit == dps.

#18 The Not So Evil

The Not So Evil

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 246 posts

Posted 16 December 2009 - 06:42 PM

Lets say you gotta move every 30 seconds for 3 seconds.
Getting run speed on boots reduces those 3 seconds to 3s/1.08 = 2.78s, 3s - 2.78s = 0.222s saved.
Avg MF hit for 2500, 35% crit for 5225 ~= 3450 * 3 = 10350, cast time ~2.4s, MF DPS = 10350 / 2.4s = 4312,5 DPS.
Lets just say that you move so little you don't lose anything but MF DPS. This means run speed on boots is worth 0.222s * 4312,5 DPS = 958.33 Damage every 30 seconds = 31.94 DPS

I prefer looking at Icewalker as 24 Crit Rating. Looking up at FrMercury's Scale factors, we see that 1 Crit Rating = 1.4785 DPS, so Icewalker gives 24 * 1.4785 = 35.484 DPS.

15 Stamina, 8% increased Run Speed: 31.94 DPS
Icewalker: 35.484 DPS.

The math gets even more complex when you start having to move so much that Mind Blasts get delayed, and even VT starts getting hard to keep up, but you can trust me when I say that Run Speed just keeps on getting better and better, while Icewalker decreases in value in those fights.
Rawr - Coder of HolyPriest (Healer) and ShadowPriest (DPS) Modules.
Get Your Rawr 2.3.x!

#19 Graf

Graf

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 30 posts

Posted 16 December 2009 - 07:00 PM

Lets say you gotta move every 30 seconds for 3 seconds.

Lets say you don't have to move, you gain 12 crit == win.
Everyone can make assumptions to prove a point.
Again, pro people move on GCD. There are no fight where you
have to move from and to a certain point as fast as possible.
And if there are any of those fights.....well, good for you....i gain 12 crit on all others.

Just delete the line, its personal.

#20 Senres

Senres

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 54 posts

Posted 16 December 2009 - 07:09 PM

There are no fight where you have to move from and to a certain point as fast as possible.

Let's see, in ToC (especially ToGC):
* Fires from bombs on Gormok.
* Poison clouds on snakes.
* Knockback/charge on Icehowl.
* Volcanoes on Jaraxxus.
* Faction Champs is a lot of running.
* Avoiding balls on Twins.
* Running to an ice patch on Anub (not a DPS gain, but is still nice)

In ICC:
* Avoiding Marrowgar's spin attack and frost flame stuff.
* Death and Decay on Lady Deathwhisper
* Avoiding rockets on the Gunship Battle.
* Avoiding Blood Beasts on Saurfang.

So.. which fights *don't* you have to move in, exactly? You can't plan to have an AoE dropped on you while you happen to be refreshing DP to hide the run with a GCD, you know. Chances are it is going to be while you are mind flaying, refreshing VT, or casting MB. None of those spells afford you the luxury of a GCD with which to move.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users