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Raiding and Working with Healers


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#21 Parappa

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Posted 23 September 2006 - 11:07 PM

Don't knock the usefulness of PvP as a training ground for most classes - not for good PvE technique, necessarily - in PvP, I Slice and Dice never, and in PvE I Eviscerate never - but for awareness and movement.

from what i've seen this, it will still boil down to personal player skill, and theres just some stuff you can not teach people if they dont want to learn it. stuff like making a simple connection in game mechanics.
we have freaking r11-r14 people who cant use line of sight, range or simply avoid stuff in pve. seeing warrior with ashkandi running towards you in warsong gulch ?? sure, hit that deathcoil or that psychic scream. same thing happening on skeram ? those people will sit there like a deer caught in headlights.

whirlwind on sartura ? sure, they will stay clear of the mob. meet the same mob with same graphics and abilities on their way to huhuran ? people just sit there spamming their frostbolts or whatever while getting perma cleaved and then drop.

basically from my experience some people just will always be bad. i mean, its the same people dying at sartura, anubisath defenders, c'thun, anubrekhan and all those others fights, and just throwing them into pvp or a 2 man stratholme run cant really fix whats wrong with them.

#22 xarg

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Posted 23 September 2006 - 11:22 PM

Your tanks will need practise too.. two prot tanks (and to a lesser degree two non-prot tanks) can keep sartura locked down until the first add is dead, easily. Just a combination of taunting and using mocking blow/challenging shout + taunt to last through the whirlwinds. Imp taunt helps, as does conc blow for when the ww is finished. Make sure detect magic is up.

This is as important as having mobile healers - they don't need to be as mobile if your tanks are doing their job right and using every tool available to them.

#23 Maldera

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Posted 24 September 2006 - 02:43 AM

We found that the sartura fight is a mix of 2 things, the pull, and add control. The pull is pretty simple, we do it this way:
At one point in sartura's patrolling route, she stops for a few secs in the middle, when this happens we rush in all together, with hunters assigned to each add and 2 maintanks on sartura, they spreads them out in the room.
Afterwards, its about controlling the adds, and their position, since we have nomore then 6 tanks in the raid, we assign 2 maintanks for sartura, with 3 healers (1 priest, 1 druid, 1 shaman), that leaves 4 tanks left for 3 adds, we give 2 adds 2 tanks each, and the last is roaming "freely". This way we can taunt rotate 3 of the 4 mobs in total, and keep them still for almost aslong as needed. Healing on the add tanks are 1 for each tank, and 1 to aggroheal whichever of the two tanks has aggro on the add. Thats 9 healers assigned for the pull, with spare healers on rogues/spothealing.
The "problem" then arises, with the last add. We assign every single DPS'er to nuke this one down very, very, fast. It has to be zerged. Its basicly up to the DPS classes to control the mob, and this makes 1 problem, the first to fire, will die, if noone else dares to fire. Its very important to emphasize for the DPS, that unless all fire, people will die. Some always wait a bit, to not be the first, which makes the DPS guy who just PoM + pyroblast mad (he yells at people when he dies hehe)
Once you get everyone to truely zerg it, and get a nice stun in from the rogues, it goes down before anyone is harmed.

Once the first add is down, we move all DPS to the next, and kill it as fast as possible again, and when an add with tanks dies, we move one of the tanks to sartura, with his 3 healers following. After all adds are down, we have 4 tanks taunt rotating sartura, with 2 tanks left roaming a new formed circle to pick up sartura if taunt rotating fails.

As a raidleader and healignleader of my guild, i must say im astounded when i read the healing setup described in a earlier post "all heals on MT" is what its basicly says, and that is bad, really bad. A good healer takes pride in keeping his target up, and if his target has 2-10 healers beside him, he starts slacking of, maybe enables CTraidassist emergency monitor and spams that instead. This is bad aswell, healing what is top of a monitor is just really inefficient, and bad. And no rogue should be happy to see 15k worth of healing land on him in a situation where noone is dying.

If a hunter or other nonhealing class is doing healing setup, they should atleast form groups with healers, and tell them to groupheal, this way the overhealing is limitied, but crosshealing will not be optimized, and (for horde side) group setup in this way is really inefficient to benefit from totems. Crosshealing or spothealing is the way to go, and for most naxxramas fights there are great potential to delegate healign based on class. 2 tankhealers and rest spotheal, and assign 1 or 2 to focus on rogues (gotta keep those dmg powerhouses alive, even on hard cleaving trash) and others to focus on other DPS classes, hell, make one heal lifetapping warlocks for all i care, optimizing is good for healers, even if their job seems boring compared to others, atleast they get something to do.
Also, in places where AOE duty is needed, let people assign themselves to mages, warlocks can rely on spotheal for AOE duty, but mages should get a healer, prefferably a priest, the way we do it, is to announce in a healerchannel that priests pick a mage, and they do in no less then 10 sec, by typing a random mage name and focus on this mage during the AOE.

The latest development of addons include healing monitors that are intelligent (more throughly described parameters for which to prioritize on), a good example is squishy. After I personally switched to this really powerful addon, i have optimized my own crosshealing duty. It picks up other healing spells being cast, and prioritizes the target about to receive heals lower. In a setup i described above, this is really the way to go in my opinion. Having people prioritizing different classes, it becomes even better, but it requires abit of setup to really shine. I have rogues on highest priority, followed by warriors, then other DPS and somewhere in the end comes warlocks and other healers (they can heal themselves :P)

But back to the original point, assign a healing leader, and optimize, in the end, it works out the best for all.

#24 Boevis

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Posted 24 September 2006 - 02:46 AM

Sadly, the ytmnd for Sartura is gone, so there's no use linking it to you.

Personally, I see no relation between this fight and PvP, being aware of your surroundings isn't something PvP teaches, the same people that die on Sartura are going to be doing the exact same thing in PvP. Certainly your people that are good at PvP will most likely do decently on this fight, but PvPing a lot doesn't make you good at it, so having your priests spend hours in queue won't do nearly as much good as people are indicating. My opinion of course.

Emphasize, constantly before the fight, the importance of casters moving if a Mob is anywhere near them. Begin the fight with ranged on their mounts so they can get further to the sides/behind everything else and spread out, clumping up is the absolute worst thing you can do on this fight.

This was probably the first fight I thought of when Druids got Swiftmend. The difference between having your druids Moonglow/Feral and Swiftmend spec can drastically change the outcome of this fight.

#25 enshula

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Posted 24 September 2006 - 03:12 AM

Use a range exclusion based healing tool or use the blizzard health bars on friends.

For range exclusion i like setting CTRA EM to 30 40 or 41 yards depending on your preference and cpu then picking who to heal off that. Something like squeaky wheel would be fine too and the ace2 EM thingy someone else mentioned looks promising.

And for blizz health bars just bind it to shift-v or whatever then mod the range of that to heal range if you can via setvar. Otherwise just try to get a feel of how far away people are and use a zoomed out camera then click on the bars which arnt at full to heal.

Another option is to assist heal off a mob but that doesnt deal with WW damage very well.

#26 Bekah

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Posted 24 September 2006 - 03:27 AM

1) PvP is a good way to help your healers become more spacially aware. I'm on a PvE server. Prior to 3 months ago when I decided to get the blue pvp set for my mage I had never PvP'd enough to make past rank 4. (I hit 4 once. Accidently. I was aiming for 3 to maintain my discount. On my server maintaining 3 involves 1 week of 4-5 games, and then 4 weeks of not playing at all) Putting it simply- I hated PvP and still only have a vague interest. It does, however, force you to think outside of the box if you were raised on a PvE server. You have to be somewhat aware of what's behind you and what's in front of you and be prepared to move. PvE you can just stand in one place and pull mobs then kill them with no real worries about mobs getting ideas like flanking or support lol. I don't think PvP made me a better priest- but it did help me practice spacial awareness outside of raid time. When it comes down to it- practice makes perfect. I'm much more active and mobile now and I find it's made me much more flexible in AQ40 and Naxx.

2) Minor Run Speed to Boots. It's not just a PvP enchant. The further into AQ40 and eventually Naxx you get- the more valuable it is to MOVEIT just a little bit faster. There are limited enchants for healers to boots (pretty much stamina or spirit)- suggest it if people are having trouble moving fast enough. 70hp versus not taking damage at all because you're fast enough is an easy choice. I think probably half or more of my guild (pure pve guild on a pve server) has run speed on thier boots.

3) HoTs and DoTs. Druids and Priests typically under value renew and rejuvenation. You should always be looking for the next heal to drop, and if you're also on the run- HoTs are excellent for classes that typically take damage. See a rogue with -400hp running back towards Sartura? Renew him and forget about it. You'll top him off and have a ticking renew going when he gets his head bashed in by the blender. A mistake I see our healers making on a regular basis is waiting until they're down to -1200 or more to start the renew ticking. At that point it's going to take 6 seconds for the renew to heal them to full- and by that point someone will probably have managed to get a fast heal to them. Renew is an excelent preventative heal for classes that are regularily taking damage- rogues, warlocks, warriors... Hot early, Hot often. If you stand there trying to cast a greater heal while Sartura is running your way you're going to end up dead. Get moving and renew/Bubble n the run until you're safe to put down a more serious heal.

4) Assignments really are key the further you get into AQ40. Huhuran is probably going to be impossible without some kind of assignments (unless you're very practiced) and Twin Emps will be a nightmare if you've got healers trying to bounce back and forth between sides. If you havn't started putting aside time for group building either- you're going to run into massive problems very quickly. You'll need to spread buffs and mini groups to your advantage (even alliance guilds should spread hunters for huhuran soakers). C'thun still takes us a good 10min to set up at the start spreading people out (eyeball, healer, stalk killer, 2 filler) and making sure that people are in good groups for them (some people have problems with the more bunched up groups) and we've been killing him for months now. Set up time is just the way of life in late AQ40 and Naxx- take the time to assign healers starting now and you'll be accoustomed to it by the time things get difficult. Man there was a ton of whining when it took us 20min to set up Huhuran healing the first few months we did the encounter.... now we have the guy who does the assignments sit out for the entire trash clear between Frank and Huhu and set it up so we can go faster.

The hardest part is probably approaching your healers without sending them into fits of primadonna glory. (Notice I'm a priest. I still throw a fit when someone gets too snotty about telling me how to do my job)

A) Present suggestions in the form of encounter strategy- not as criticism. Criticism without instruction is worthless.

"Learn to use instant heals OMG" versus "Okay for Sartura we're going to need most of our healing to come from hots. Try using the instant stuff only druids and priests until you're comfortable with the movement, then add in casting time heals. Everyone else- don't bitch if you've got a hot going, get out of the damage and bandage if your health is critical."
"Jesus healers, stop running out of mana" versus "Okay welcome to Patchwerk. Lets all take a look through our spell books and find a 2000 hp heal. Go ahead and test it out on friends and find the one that works. We're going to downrank to that heal for this fight to spread out the healing as evenly as possible." or "Try downranking to the next highest rank of the spell if you're having mana trouble with mana folks. Lets go again."

B) Open up discussions on the forums about prefered healing strategies. If you have a healer willing to open themselves up first to criticism it will give everyone a chance to analyze healing and take suggestions without losing face. "Hey guys I've been using top rank flash heal on Twin Emps and I just can't seem to last the whole fight without going through 5 mana potions. It's breaking my bank- how do you all do it?" Better still if you can get these kind of discussions going for each individual class. Give everyone a chance to trot out thier pet strategies and share thoughts without being inherently critical or demanding.

Get people thinking about the why's and the hows and the skill will follow. (Eventually)
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#27 Thelyna

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Posted 24 September 2006 - 04:08 AM

Analyze before you criticize.

edit for content:

example of Bad: MT on Nef dies, ensuing on vent "omg wtf why did I die!?!" when the healers are trying to keep the OT up.

example of Good: MT on Nef dies, waits for the fight to conclude then says calmly "how can we prevent healers dying on the zerg?"

Don't point fingers* or come across aggressive or derogatory, be calm, clear and helpful, state repeatedly you're trying to help the raids to improve.

* That is to say, don't call specific people out in public "X Healer, why are you using Flash Heal?" on your guild forums is a good way to get them to go defensive and clamshell around their beloved Flash Heal (and quite possibly use it more than ever in spite). It doesn't have to make sense, it's the way people are. If you're going to critique someone's personal style of play, do it in tells or in a private party. Also, make sure you know what you're talking about, there's nothing worse than having a DPS class say "well, the healers shouldn't be running out of mana, don't run out next time". Hell, I consider myself fairly open to criticism, yet if someone tells me, undeservedly, that I suck I'd probably still get rather short with them.


On a slightly unrelated note, I've noticed recently there's quite a few priests using Flash Heal pretty much exclusively in our raids. Is there any diplomatic and delicate way to chivel them around to the Heal4/Heal2 goodness?

(We just downed twin emps last night for the first time with ~17 healers in the raid, probably 10 of them were fully OOM at the end.)

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#28 Pantone

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Posted 24 September 2006 - 06:28 AM

Don't obsess too much on complicated groups or strats--just insist everyone learn to move.

My guild has never had a real strat to sartura. We have between 4 and 6 tanks grab adds and the boss, put two healers on each tank.. and the rest "heal the raid." We use no hunters, taunt rotations, or warlocks. We just have absolute chaos as all the blenders fly around slicing people. (in fact, we've had kills with an untanked add where we just told the raid to dodge it). But it works.. somehow. We just keep dodging, call out a target of opportunity and hope for the best. Tanks die and are rezzed, healers basically go to "forget your assignment and just heal whoever's around you" and all the warlocks die (Every. Single. Time). Then the boss dies and we collect loots.

Just get out of the way!

#29 Bekah

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Posted 24 September 2006 - 06:50 AM

On a slightly unrelated note, I've noticed recently there's quite a few priests using Flash Heal pretty much exclusively in our raids. Is there any diplomatic and delicate way to chivel them around to the Heal4/Heal2 goodness?

(We just downed twin emps last night for the first time with ~17 healers in the raid, probably 10 of them were fully OOM at the end.)

Were they oom before the end of the fight (while heals were still needed) or finishing barely holding on to thier pants and sliding in that last heal on a breath of mana?

If it's the former, suggest ranking down to Heal2 at 20% mana or being more agressive with thier potting technique.
If it's the latter- don't worry, they made it through and it will only improve with familiarity.

Flash heal is not inherently bad- it's expensive. If they complain about the costs of potting for thier favored healing strategy, suggest alternatives... but you can't force them to accept cheaper alternatives if they're dead set on spending 20g an encounter =P
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#30 Thelyna

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Posted 24 September 2006 - 06:57 AM

Well, overall, some of them were oom before the end (I think, I was kinda busy myself at that point), and some of them were sliding home on the barest breathes of mana. Overall, though, we got 3/4 tanks up until enrage (one warlock went down due to being arcane bursted into a blizzard with a shadowbolt chaser, ain't much you can do there), so yeah, it worked, I'm just a perfectionist. :)

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#31 Zerianne

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Posted 24 September 2006 - 08:02 AM

A lot of healers just don't notice they need to move because they are staring at health bars, while most dps classes are staring at the mobs in question. It's not a talent, it just comes with practice. You can get battle awareness pvp'ing or just doing these fights in particular. After you've progressed as far as c'thun, people that are just plain bad wiill never improve. They'll always die on Sartura, stand in exploding bugs/blizzard on Emps, get eye beamed on C'Thun, etc. But your raid just rolled up to your first real dynamic fight you've ever encountered. People just need practice.

I wouldn't be so quick to blame your healers for your failure on this boss either. Are the adds running around out of control? Make sure your rogues are doing their best to lock them down. I personally wear full dodge gear + agility pot, pop evasion first thing, and build 5cp on one then kidneyshot. I use an invuln pot when all that wears off. In short, you need your Rogues to make themselves useful too. They can lock an add down while taking 0 damage. If Sartura & friends are just running all over the place out of control, no special healer assignments or battle awareness will make them successfully keep the rest of the raid alive. Keeping Sartura herself under control is key too, and the methods for doing that (taunt rotation/stun between ww) has already been discussed.

Finally, people need to take care of themselves here. Do you have people standing around like idiots at half hp and getting one shot the moment an add comes by? People should have consumeables -- major health pots, tubers, bandages, etc., and take care of themselves the best they can. Some fights, healers can only do so much. And on this fight in particular, since they themselves have to move out of the way, they won't be able to always cast a clutch heal since that requires standing still. Make sure people come prepared and top themselves off. The fights in AQ40 only get harder. :)

#32 Chicken

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Posted 24 September 2006 - 10:35 AM

On a slightly unrelated note, I've noticed recently there's quite a few priests using Flash Heal pretty much exclusively in our raids. Is there any diplomatic and delicate way to chivel them around to the Heal4/Heal2 goodness?

Personally I just pointed out the following when the other Priests started noticing my mana was lasting longer while I was healing about the same amounts (I basically converted to using slower heals about a week after the Priest talent revisions hit, first Priest in my guild):

You can generally count on the fact that a certain amount of damage is going to be coming in on whoever you're healing on a steady basis. Sure, you could just wait until whoever you're healing takes damage and then cast a reactive Flash Heal. But if you know someone is going to be taking, say, 1200 damage within the next 3 seconds, and you have a choice between reactively healing it or just starting up your slower spell beforehand and saving yourself a lot of mana, which would you go for? ;)

Of course, then you'll have people pointing out "But what about spike damage?", to which the answer is "By the time the spike hits, I've probably already finished one second of casting on my two and a half second spell, and my spell heals for the same as Flash Heal. So again, the only difference is the mana efficiency. Even if I haven't, I'm not healing by myself, there's generally at least 3 other people and probably more on those spike damage fights. Plus what with reflexes, it's quite likely that even if only half a second of my spell has cast it'll still hit at the same time as those reactive Flash Heals."

Of course, another problem might be that you might end up with a few Priests once they're converted that are close to refusing to use Flash Heal at all, which is just as stupid as not using the slower heals. All heals are useful in a specific situation.

#33 tritium4ever

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Posted 24 September 2006 - 10:36 AM

Don't obsess too much on complicated groups or strats--just insist everyone learn to move.

My guild has never had a real strat to sartura. We have between 4 and 6 tanks grab adds and the boss, put two healers on each tank.. and the rest "heal the raid." We use no hunters, taunt rotations, or warlocks. We just have absolute chaos as all the blenders fly around slicing people. (in fact, we've had kills with an untanked add where we just told the raid to dodge it). But it works.. somehow. We just keep dodging, call out a target of opportunity and hope for the best. Tanks die and are rezzed, healers basically go to "forget your assignment and just heal whoever's around you" and all the warlocks die (Every. Single. Time). Then the boss dies and we collect loots.

Just get out of the way!

This sounds exactly like how we do Sartura. I've read lots of posts with hunters using distracting shot to pull back, warlocks using DoTs to ping pong, and choreographed taunt rotations, and I have no idea how the heck anyone can accomplish that in the chaos. We've always been like "well here let's get some tanks on each mob" and let the rest of the fight work itself out. Hell, it's the only boss encounter in the game where I don't even do healing assignments (shhh, don't tell anyone else in my guild that!)...people just naturally find the spots they need to stand in to get healing range on at least a couple tanks. Strict healing assignments tend not to work on Sartura anyway, since if an add forces some healers to move then their tank may not get any heals at all. With a raid group adept at healing anyone that they can possibly reach, this problem is minimized.

Sure it's chaotic and seemingly uncoordinated, and sure we never get perfectly clean kills with zero deaths, but we do one-shot Sartura every week with very little difficulty. People have just gotten used to the "move or die" mentality, and things work out.

#34 Dodo

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Posted 24 September 2006 - 11:27 AM

If your raid is taking MASSIVE damage in the sartura fight, it's not your healers fault. It's a different story if your healers keep dying to the adds and/or Sartura.

Ideally only your melee forces get hit and nobody else. You have to change your positioning if it's very different from this. People die because they have Sartura and a royal guard on them. Or 2-3 royal guards at the same time. That is NOT a healer problem. What you are describing seems more like a problem from your damage dealers which are keeping to throw these fireballs (or whatever) at the guard even when the guard is only 10 yards away from them. Result is, that they bite the dust.

#35 Melissande

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Posted 24 September 2006 - 11:46 AM

Beware of the "it's the healers fault syndrome". Strategies varies, but with our startegy on sartura, we have four categories of people taking more damage than chain bandaging/casual renews+rejuvs can heal.

1 - warriors, though we don't want more than 2 or 3 of them on the mob at a given time
2 - rogues, who have a though stun job. In this fight were they don't bitch about "too much useless dodge on our set", BTW. You have to be very carefull of your rogues, as evasion won't be up for the entire fight. Have your healers very aware of it, in a random fight an aggro'ed rogue might "evasion tank", on Sartura he will have to have to tank. The healers must be aware that the "rogue who seems to take no damage" will start being hammered as soon as evasion stops
3 - warlocks, at least while adds are still alive (they have a job of controlling the adds, being the add's target till the warrior catches aggro)
4 - retards, or at least people screwing up

Make sure your healer prioritize the first 3 categories. Failing to keep someone in catgory 1-3 up because of someone in category 4 is a mistake.

Another important thing is that heals have a limited range. Basically we make 3 autonomous add bashing group with 1 war, 1 lock, 1 or 2 rogues, 1 or 2 priest). Especially for this fight, fuck totem optimisation. You need healers in add groups to take care of their groups, wich they will very easily spot on the minimap, this is more important than getting windfury on warrior X or aura of something on player Y.

Also, your whole raid must be aware that survival is more important than being DPSing 100% of the time! So as soon as you get damaged, retreat (except for players who have tanking duties of course). Players need heals to give them HP back, but healing to stand through damage and stay "being beaten" is the privilege of players having tanking duties. So "move or die", which includes healers. Mages and hunters dying shold be mocked upon (and obviously STFU about healers). Rogues, on the other way, should be healed cautiously as they drop very fast. Of course, if your rogues have PVP sets, tell them to wear as much Stamina as they can.

Last but not least, Sartura deals no magic damage, so amplify magic for everyone.

#36 Ashen

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Posted 24 September 2006 - 01:10 PM

I appreciate all of the help and the comments, but I did want to point out one thing. I'm not blaming our healers for our Sartura problems. The thing is, is that I've had a close eye on our healers since about the time we stepped into BWL. As a healer myself, it's something I concentrate on. I almost never jump to blame our healers on any wipe, unless I KNOW it was a healing problem. And even then, there are always extraneous factors that cause a wipe.

My concern is, as I mentioned, how to make things work with them.

I want to:
a.) Fix their healing. Many people mentioned downranking and precasting, things that I'm not sure all of our healers do. They helped me by also mentioning how one would approach such an issue.
b.) My largest issue is if they're stuck watching their EM's and Health bars and not the fight. We had this problem on Firemaw, where people weren't moving to find the sweet spots. They would stand there and take like 5 Flame Buffet Ticks and complain about positioning, while the rest of our healers were standing four feet away from them healing.

I'm just seeing this issue again, and it's something I wanted to address. No wipe may happen because our healers aren't moving, but at the same time, I want to strengthen them so we can handle these encounters more successfully: Skeram, Bug Trio, Sartura, Ouro, C'thun (When we get to the last two.)

I did want some help on Sartura, and I appreciate the help I got, but I would like for people to read the original post again, since I'm also asking questions on how to handle strengthening our healers in a raid environment, both in terms of healing and movement.

Hey guys, I heard that Blizzard puts out these things called "patches" that contain "content"

Yeah but it hasn't happened since Ulduar.


#37 Malan

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Posted 24 September 2006 - 02:11 PM

I did want some help on Sartura, and I appreciate the help I got, but I would like for people to read the original post again, since I'm also asking questions on how to handle strengthening our healers in a raid environment, both in terms of healing and movement.

;)
I tried to help you out with that on the first page, you may want to edit Sartura out of the OP, people are just going to casually read that and then continue to post their "OMG TEH SECRET SARTURA STRAT" in response.

#38 muteh

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Posted 24 September 2006 - 02:41 PM

Movement at least is very hard to teach, all you can really do is stress how important it is to avoid whatever is you need to avoid and hope that it sinks in. A lot of those who didn't get the idea on that first night will likely get it eventually (days rather than months ;) ) - it only takes a couple of deaths in the first seconds of a Sartura pull to work out that you being alive for the whole fight would be better than that one heal you were casting landing. It then takes a few more trys to actually put that into practice since it is so different to how people have healed for the last how ever many days /played came before. Nobody wants to die every time you do a boss like that and good (or at least good enough) movement isn't that hard a skill to pick up.

As for knowing if someone is a good healer or a bad healer, well, that's going to be hard to do in a quantifiable way. Healing meters can show if someone was asleep half the night but not if somebody was making intelligent choices about who and how to heal. It's been mentioned here before that the best thing to do is to discretely ask the tanks what they think about the healers. They'll have the best idea of who gets the clutch heals in, whose heals always seem to land a second after they've already been topped off and who just seems to be flash healing every 5 seconds regardless of what's happening. Then you're stuck with what you do with that knowledge - you can't very well go up to someone and say "You're a bad healer - heal better". In my opinion the best thing to do is to create an atmosphere where people want to know more about how their class works. Yes, some emergency monitor flash spammers probably do that because it's easier than prehealing with slower heals but it's likely a lot do because they don't know any better. Toss out a few links to useful sites: you can probably find some relavent threads on here and the ctmod calculator is a good demonstration of the benefits of downranking. Encourage conversation about what style of healing people are finding works best on encounters you're learning, try to get them to make suggestions about how assignments could be better. If people feel that their advice is valued (even if not always acted on) then they're going to want to make more good suggestions and therefore think more about what's happening.

#39 Mistaya

Mistaya

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Posted 24 September 2006 - 03:37 PM

Nothing to add to the sartura strat except we pretty much say "Tanks pick something up, people try not to die and heal whoever's nearby" its hectic, messy, lots of deaths but she's a one shot every week even if it takes a while since the adds killed like all but one rogue, all the locks, and half the mages. Druids tend to die on aggro-bouncy fights like this, we are high aggro healers and have no fade. I'd imagine shammies have a similar difficulty, our pallies don't have much trouble with her though. So on to the real advice...

Your healers need to be comfortable with each other. If I am grouped with a guild mate I am always well aware of how he heals, as a druid I am very sensitive to our priests mana pools (go innervate bot!) Knowing that I'm with a pally so I need to hot more and rank up a bit or being offheal with a preist and being able to heal more outside of group is very important.

My guild is alliance so your milage may vary but heres what we do:

1. Every group has 2 healers. A druid or priest main healer and a paladin or druid offhealer.
2. Healers know what their priority is in every encounter. Unless specifically stated otherwise (patchwerk, gluth) for US the priority is:

A: Keep your group (including you!) alive. -every group has 2 healers, be talkative with your buddy healer. It is likely one of you will be demagic/depoison/decurse in some encounters make sure your buddy healer compensates for that.

B: Keep the tanks alive. -Durr. If you have a very strong heal in group (druid/priest combo) one of you should be healing MT. Again, be talkative. Healers must know what each other is doing.

C: Keep everyone else alive. -Depending on the fight who to save if given a choice between 2 people about to die will change. Example: Mages high prioirty on viscidius, low priority on razuvious.

Have a healer channel and be chatty with each other in it. Friends heal better together =p Its valuable for healers to just be healers with each other. If a tank goes down you need to be able to ask questions or confirm what went wrong outside of that snotty DPS's earshot and decide if you could have done something about it. A good healer should KNOW when he could have saved someone and failed, and improve on himself to not fail the next time. Post overhealing only if its significant enough to call atention to, but post Effective healing after DPS to give your healers a little bit of friendly competition just like the DPS has.

BWL-> AQ40 is a big step for healers as you've noticed. You said this was only your first week in there, so dont be too hard on people. They will definately learn to move by the end of it. And caps for emphasis: RUN SPEED IS BEST BOOT ENCHANT AND CHEAP MAKE THEM ALL GET IT :P
Just another Tauren Shaman.

#40 Ninjadood

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Posted 24 September 2006 - 03:47 PM

RE: Healers and making healers better healers

One of the biggest issues that plagues this game with regards to healing classes is two handed healers. What I mean when I say this is that there are those who use both their hands to be able to cast 1 heal. Pre-AQ, Blizzard has catered to this play style and hence the figure of the immobile healer has arisen. I've seen healers IRL spam clicking the first or second slot of their EM and using their other hand to click heal. Odds are they're not paying much attention to the actual healing they're doing and a low Overheal % is solely a virtue of them being a fast clicker.

As you know, Emergency Monitor is a great tool for specifying who needs healing(and is very configurable by class, group, etc.) I personally prefer Healer Assist's emergency monitor because it comes with some awesome addons that makes a monkey be able to play a healing class.

Your goal is to get healers out of the mindset of "I'm going to be staring at castbars playing whack-a-mole." However, when they're dedicated to even 5 raid members and have to watch healthbars this can get tricky. I subscribe to the method "Let addons do what I intend to do if the addon can do it better."
So I through these addons I specify criteria of who I want to heal so I focus less on manually finding who I want to heal, and more on my positioning and performance while healing.

A few addon's and mods can turn your worst healer into an extremely dynamic On-The-Go heal machine provided they show a desire to do so. Our goal is to make it so they are less reliant at using multiple hands/fingers to heal so that they always have a hand free to move their avatar. The healing suite I use is composed of the following:

Healer Assist- http://www.curse-gam...ers-assist.html
I also use HA's Castbar and Mana Conserve Plugin
(HA's emergency monitor is more configurable than CT-RA's and has awesome features like accounting for current heals being cast on a target. Check it out!
This allows me a more dynamic Castbar that I can configure with specified text in the plugin including my overheal%. The mana conserve plugin actually changes the castbar color at >20% overheal. My castbar reads: TARGET - (--percentoverheal--) [num people healing target]

ECastingBar- http://www.curse-gam...castingbar.html
(An easily configurable castbar that lets you assign dimenisons very easily. My cast bar is approximately 3/4's the width of my screen in my UI)

Decursive(of course)

If you bind the following macro to a key, that key will target the highest person on the EM list and cast Flash heal rank 5.

/script HA_SelectEmergency(1); if(UnitExists("target")) then CastSpellByName("Flash Heal(Rank 5)"); end

You can select anyone on the EM list by changing the 1 in the above script to a different number.

I have my right numberpad bound as follows-
7- Flashheal5-EMslot1 8- Flashheal5-EMslot2 9- Flashheal5-EMslot3
4- Gheal3-EMslot1 5-GHeal3-EMslot2 6- Gheal3-EMslot3

I have decursive bound to my Asterix key on the numpad.

Now that I've explained my setup, let me go into a little bit of my philosophy with regards to DPS vs. Healing. DPS generally has to worry about 2 things: Themselves and their own positioning, and the mob they are killing. Healers have a bit of a more dynamic role- They must focus on themselves and their own positioning, but they also have to reconcile that with their healing assignment(group) and group's need at that moment. They must also reconcile that their actions could be completely negated by anyone with a comparable healing assignment.

I gotta tell you, it's a harrowing experience being a healer while the only feedback you receive is ZOMG I DIDN'T GET HEALS!!!! If I'm a healer and can't recognize that you're getting damaged, in my mind it's not my fault if you die. So I have to be proactive and do everything I can to be the most dynamic healer I can. Each healer has to take that upon themselves. For me, and working with my raid healers, it's been showing them what healing is like in my shoes rather than playing whack-a-mole and hoping that you're not overhealing someone. Have your healers discuss their play styles with each other to see if some might work better for each other.

-T3h Ninjadood

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