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The cross-server battleground experience


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#21 probiscus

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 10:30 PM

The flip side to that is not wanting to PUG ever. I only cue up solo these days, and I don't even bother trying to do anything except play (solo) ramp D. Nobody heals, nobody knows basic strategy/how to play WSG; I'm convinced alliance PUGs are all retarded. I'm not even a good PvP'r and I can say that.

Hell, a couple guys from Kilrogg (priest+6/9 DN warrior) stalled a game for 90 minutse or something stupid just running around in the opposing teams base. Then they parked their characters in the OTHER teams GY and the two of them killed the opposing team over and over and over as they spawned. Up to 7 opposing faction at a time >_<. I think the warrior ended up like 150-4 or something.

#22 Zyla

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 10:56 PM

also from a pure grinding experience to get high honor marks - the most effecient way to do it is to do a wsg graveyard camp. With the new reduced penalty to honor earned, the more pugs you force to afk from your griefing , the more honor you get, as fresh people zone in one after the other like lambs to the slaughter. Theres abosolutely no mechanic in the game that prevents it, and as the gms say, there's a pvp solution :(.

A team that did this camped once for three hours in the same game and walked away with 50k honor from just that one game. Its exceptionally lame and the neverending joining pugs make it work. Its just a massive design oversight.

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#23 Ngita

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 11:01 PM

Its been great for us. Pre xbg we might have ran 1 or 2 guild games a week when the queues crept down to 30-60 mins and now they happen 4-5 times a week. We get some hard teams from Blackrock and some medium teams from Tich and Frostmourne and Proudmoore. Australian Guild so these hard men from Tich dont seem to exist at 5am Server time. Pug and Organised Horde dominate Alliance Pugs in WSG a little less in AB and Allliance dominate in AV. Currently WSG instant - 1 min, AB 1-10 mins, AV 30-60 mins.

#24 mutagen

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 11:48 PM

I love it, with the huge Alliance to Horde ratio on Proudmoore the queues were just painful before. I've started doing organized groups with some guildies with a whole range of skill, from never having PvP'd to some pretty good players. We join up with some Australians doing the GM grind and get them warmed up on HKs until their regular teammates come as we're passing out for the night.

It has really sparked interest within the guild, several people who never PvP'd before are now R8 and climbing. Quite amusing to have someone I was handholding through AB a few weeks back barking orders and passing me in rank.

Plenty of premades AFK out on us even though we're pretty average in the grand scheme of things. We can draw out a WSG except against the toughest premades so the pure honor farmers are better off choosing the other game than stalemating with us. I'd rather face some stiff competition than roll PuGs all day but the honor grinders don't always feel that way.

I've even ressurected a lvl29 toon as a sort of casual twink, although I didn't run the instances with a focus on PvP so I've only got AH gear available. Not enough time though...

My two (not-so-informed) sents.


#25 Elendril

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 11:56 PM

i actually don't really like xserver bgs. on both of my servers - ner'zhul and icecrown - we had reasonable queues and decent, if flagging, pvp communities. one of the best parts of PVP, in my mind, comes from the familiarity of it - playing that one team yet again. for a long time, LA pretty much never lost on ner'zhul, and when the top horde pvp team finally beat us, it was a big deal. with a larger pool, rivalries like that can't really develop as readily, and while variety in opposition is nice, victories are somewhat less satisfying when you don't know who you stole that flag out from under at the last second.

#26 RK

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Posted 27 September 2006 - 12:22 AM

1.12 was the best thing to ever happen to Australians PvPing. BGs in our prime time (outside Khaz'goroth/Frostmourne/Proudmoore/Blackrock) have been non-existent forever; suddenly, we have AV AB and WSG on demand at all times.

It was also the best thing to ever happen to Windrunner PvP. We have horrible population imbalance coupled with being an old, old server... all the serious PvPers on Horde side were long since exalted with everything (and probably had been rank 13 or rank 14 if they wanted to) and quit, and due to the lack of Horde pvp Alliance stopped queuing other than organised teams going for top rank, which meant any horde pugs trying to pvp just got stomped and didn't bother and blah blah deathspiralcakes.

We've suddenly got a thriving pvp scene again. A lot of people have come back just for the competition, even pugs seem to do well in AB, and AV seems to be about 40/60 (which is still better than how it was pre-TBC, when Horde tended to have people leave without replacement and inevitably lose by weight of numbers and gear). Lots of people who used to never pvp are suddenly rank 3, rank 4. People who used to like it but never able to get in are suddenly rank 6, rank 7, rank 8.

Also there's the whole meeting-new-people thing. I still see Windrunner alliance members occasionally, but not all the time. That's a good thing. New opponents, new friends.

So as an Australian PvPing on Windrunner, 1.12 gets double thumbs up. If only this had been in from the start...

Plus it's been a whole new world of Alliance to taunt in dwarvish when I put away the 2h and break out the Ironfoe (surely the most amusing pvp weapon in existence for a Horde player; there should be more things like it).

I don't know anyone on Windrunner who's against x-server BGs, anyway. I think the only people who would have reason are people who might now need more honor a week for rank 14, or people used to rolling with the same bunch of top-geared people in AV on their server who now have to fight alongside a bunch of people they don't know in greens and blues from new servers.

#27 Tuco

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Posted 27 September 2006 - 12:31 AM

Our organized AB/WSG group hasn't lost one of the last 80 or so BGs we've been in. Not because we're good persay, but because we're paired with unorganized, ungeared PUGs.

The BG system was a failure doomed from birth, and the light at the end of the play to crush tunnel is tBC PVP.

An instanced PVP system will not work in WoW until 1. It's cross-faction, 2. It ranks players and chooses the BG players by those ranks and 3: Is cross-server.

Until those three conditions are met instanced PVP isn't very good, I've been saying it for two years now, and they're finally doing it with arenas.

It's my hope they implement the BG content with the tBC arena rules.

#28 Incoherence

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Posted 27 September 2006 - 01:46 AM

Since our cluster has so many new servers, you see some really bizarre things. For example: a 60 warlock with 2341 unbuffed HP. That's not a typo. In general I've discovered that most of the other servers on our battlegroup are populated by idiots, but the instant queues make up for it.

I'm hoping that the Burning Crusade arena turns out to be exactly what I envision it being: Warcraft 3 AT, since for all of the other faults of Warcraft 3, the matchmaking system was pretty damn good.

#29 Kalman

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Posted 27 September 2006 - 01:52 AM

Our organized AB/WSG group hasn't lost one of the last 80 or so BGs we've been in. Not because we're good persay, but because we're paired with unorganized, ungeared PUGs.

See, what I've noticed is that I see about one organized AB/WSG team every 1-2 hours.

Which is exactly how often I used see them. The difference being, in the 30-90 minutes I have between org/org games, I at least get to PvP rather than wait around IF or pick flowers. I get just as many good games as I used to - but I also get a lot of mediocre ones.

In the end, while I'd prefer 100% of my games to be good ones (Arena system!), I'll settle for one game out of every 5-6 being good and being able to PvP near-constantly, since the old system would give me one good game and a lot of downtime.
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#30 malthrin

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Posted 27 September 2006 - 01:55 AM

In the end, while I'd prefer 100% of my games to be good ones (Arena system!), I'll settle for one game out of every 5-6 being good and being able to PvP near-constantly, since the old system would give me one good game and a lot of downtime.

I don't know about 100%. After 3 intense 40-minute Group v Group WSGs in a row sometimes you just want to sit back and roll some PUGs. A preform about every 3-4 games is what I've been seeing in BG7, and that's just about right for me.
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#31 Viator

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Posted 27 September 2006 - 03:33 AM

I just transferred to Khadgar so I'll tell you how I feel once you get done beating me up. :(

No, I like it. I'm not a major PvPer by any means. I love PvP but not WoW's PvP; I like to feel like it makes a difference in the world at large and if it's not I'll go play a fps. But I dabble and find it fun in small doses and this has helped immensely for the small dose guy like me. Practically instant action.
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#32 panny

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Posted 27 September 2006 - 05:23 AM

Pre xBG, besides premades there would be only be a handful of Alliance that ever did AB or WSG. Horde always lost AB/WSG unless you managed get lucky. However, we always won AV.

Now, it's pretty much flipped. We usually win AB/WSG and lose AV. I don't mind that much, anything is preferable to 2 hour queues and losing in 5 minutes. Oh yeah, forgot to mention, I'm in an 'off' timezone too, so it's really great for me.

A team that did this camped once for three hours in the same game and walked away with 50k honor from just that one game. Its exceptionally lame and the neverending joining pugs make it work. Its just a massive design oversight.

50k honour is really not that much for three hours. It isn't a viable strategy for ranking up. Of course, it doesn't stop people from doing it anyway just to be jerks, but I don't see it becoming widespread.

#33 ildon

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Posted 27 September 2006 - 05:24 AM

In the end, while I'd prefer 100% of my games to be good ones (Arena system!), I'll settle for one game out of every 5-6 being good and being able to PvP near-constantly, since the old system would give me one good game and a lot of downtime.

I don't know about 100%. After 3 intense 40-minute Group v Group WSGs in a row sometimes you just want to sit back and roll some PUGs. A preform about every 3-4 games is what I've been seeing in BG7, and that's just about right for me.

Which reminds me, while these extremely long, intense games can be fun, in the back of your mind you know you're killing your honor efficiency. Even after BG honor efficiency isn't as relevant in the expansion, I still honestly think WSG needs a time limit, just for the sake of fun. 45 min seems like a good mark, although I'd prefer 30. (Hey, I'm a TF player. I'm used to 30 min. matches.)
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#34 Bekah

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Posted 27 September 2006 - 06:02 AM

Our battlegroup is like a nice box of mixed nuts. Some nights you pull up a group in T3, some nights you pull up puggies in greens. I miss playing with Skywall horde a lot though- we had a lot of respect going back and forth and less of the rampant idiocy. There are so few of them to begin with that it's pretty much a rare spawn to see them- we've gone against a skywall team only once since the patch went live =(.

What really annoys me though, is that there are a couple of groups that queue after raid times and refuse to fight a group with more than 5 or so from the same server. Oh it's another AFK out by that guild on XServer... It's always the same two servers and it's annoying as hell =/

I like being able to get in 3 or 4 games with my guildmates after raid time, it's a great way to blow off steam after getting stomped by raid bosses. Prior to the patch our queue's were 45-95min (no that's not a typo or exaggeration. There was usually one or two horde groups TOPS queueing to fight the entire alliance) now we're averaging between 6-9 min for wsg =D

Two thumbs up imo.
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#35 Emeraude

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Posted 27 September 2006 - 06:29 AM

Would be nice to have them put the Join as Group function back in and make it Group vs Group action for AV. :)
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#36 selece

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Posted 27 September 2006 - 06:35 AM

In some ways I like it - i.e. shorter queue times, but I do miss seeing the Horde side of my own server more. Not that there's much left of it, most of the raiding guilds have collapsed/transfered, but it's still nice to see those names you know oh-so-well and know that you're going to have a good and tough matchup. We used to have a major cross guild Alliance CP team and a major Horde one and WSG games between the two would last 2 hours+... but sadly those days are gone and most of the people who want their GM gear have it now, so "pro" CP teams are few and far between.

Deathwing probably has the most geared Alliance raiding guilds in BG10 and it's usually pretty sad who we end up running against. Greens/Blues/T1 doesn't fare well against BWL/T3+ gear. In all the AB matches I've played, I've only seen a single guild premade with BWL+ gear, the majority being mid/end MC geared. For fun one night we made a 15 hunter AB group with a good portion of the best geared hunters from DW (T3 2-6/8's) and didn't lose a single time to any group, including the above mentioned guild premade with BWL+ gear.

It was actually somewhat sad. :( 5-0's while amusing, are kind of dull after the 20th one while you watch the queue climb from 2 minutes to over 15. (What, nobody wants 15 hunters dancing at your graveyard with flares and traps, waiting for you to res while the 5-0 resource count ticks away?) It'd be interesting if they had a queue option to play only against premades/guild groups/serious groups and the like ... but then again it could just be my tired brain rambling on.

#37 Nite_Moogle

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Posted 27 September 2006 - 06:38 AM

Would be nice to have them put the Join as Group function back in and make it Group vs Group action for AV. :)

Given the complete and total lack of any organization in 95% of AV matches, I doubt you'd need a full 40 to make a large impression. I've seen groups of 5 or 6 people clearly on Ventrilo either sabotaging rearguards or holding off far more people than they had any right to.

Eh, my nostalgia goggles aren't as good as they used to be.


#38 mutagen

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Posted 27 September 2006 - 07:04 AM

Would be nice to have them put the Join as Group function back in and make it Group vs Group action for AV. :)

We try to sync our queues, countdown and queue at approximately the same time. End up with 4 or 5 people in one AV, a couple in another and the rest spread out. But then we argue about what we're gonna do ... "I want to farm HK on D" vs "cmon, we need to end this fast, Hordies are ahead".

My two (not-so-informed) sents.


#39 Emeraude

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Posted 27 September 2006 - 07:14 AM

Would be nice to have them put the Join as Group function back in and make it Group vs Group action for AV. :)

Given the complete and total lack of any organization in 95% of AV matches, I doubt you'd need a full 40 to make a large impression. I've seen groups of 5 or 6 people clearly on Ventrilo either sabotaging rearguards or holding off far more people than they had any right to.

Well that's my point, I would love to see 2 organized guilds 40-strong just going at it in AV the way it was meant to be played. You can call it an elitist prick mentality, but AV was a raid, it had objectives, and people were meant to do certain things in it. It's been dumbed down to the point it's at now because your casual retarded WoW player didn't care about the objects the BG expected you to complete and as a result we have AV today, with no NPC, and a rat race against scrubs who win or lose based on who kills who's NPCs faster. It's the same reason the Azshara BG never came out, they never found a way to make a 40 vs 40 pvp senario work, so they cancelled it, I'm sure Azshara would have been highly similar to AV, but I guess now we'll never know.

I absolutely can't stand stepping foot in AV atm, I hate pugging AV, I used to lead the organized AV raids on my server, so going back there to what it is now kinda makes me sick to my stomach. The best raids I had were when the rival "big" horde guilds on the server got involved and heard I was rolling PuGS and started queuing together to stop me, I never got to take on another 40-man group unfortunately, but when there we 15-20 of them in one game and I had to think about where I wanted my forces to go it became alot more interesting. :) Sending the Rogues around on missions, or using a divide and conqour strategy, or a pincer attack to flank the Horde was very fun hehe. All done with nothing but alot of caps and no ventrillo.
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#40 Ngita

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Posted 27 September 2006 - 07:18 AM

Given the complete and total lack of any organization in 95% of AV matches, I doubt you'd need a full 40 to make a large impression. I've seen groups of 5 or 6 people clearly on Ventrilo either sabotaging rearguards or holding off far more people than they had any right to.

It’s my firm belief that number is 1. I normally pvp on a t1/t2 geared alt warlock. Basically make it my mission to make sure towers/gy’s are capped and stay capped, and or that the alliance towers are taken back. I find it makes the wins much quicker and slows the horde down immensely. The only time I have failed at it and indeed the horde had a massive turn around and won was when a Horde rank 13 shaman did exactly the same thing back to me and killed me 1v1 something like 7-8 times. I also am repping up a mid 50's hunter. All I can do is hide in their zerg and pump out damage, typically the games on my hunter are 20 mins longer.

As for playing vs. Organised groups different Battle groups I guess. BG9 especially at the times I play 50% of the horde teams are organised. That doesn’t necessarily mean you will play them ,we had a very amusing game recently where we got a “Khaz†team, then “Bart†, then after 20 seconds of 10 vs 0 the same “Bart†team then finally a single spotter from the 1st “Khaz†team who we danced with while the 3rd flag was run back. But in general Blackrock/Proudmoore teams always stay and are a mix of t2+




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