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3.3 Compendium


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#1 Madlax

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 12:01 AM

After the high interest in the compiled 3.2 information I´m now starting up with the 3.3 one.

A note on the Compendium itself
Finding, compiling, formatting and reposting all this information is a LOT of work.
I´m personally thankful for any comments, useful additions, gear set changes and stupid questions(preferably into Warlock: Simple Questions/Simple Answers) - keeping track of it all is very time consuming.
Setting up the BiS gear set is always a lot of work - I've already done it once for 3.2 and now I've done the initial versions for 3.3 so people have something to work with.

A note on the Compendiums goals(and the reason why I write it):
People do not come to EJ to get ultimate answers - you come here to understand the fundamentals and get better knowledge on your class.
"Tell me, what spec does best DPS and what glyphs shall I use".
That is not a question you can answer or this Compendium will answer for you. Specs perform different per encounter, per task you take and per gear you have.
Understanding the ups and downs each spec has over another, the benefits and drawbacks - that is what this Compendium is trying to teach you in short version. We seek to answer questions with prove, not with sarcasm and ignorance.
Simcraft is but a guideline and a tool. Using it to get numbers is great, being able to analyse those numbers and make educated suggestions from them is a gift. Simcraft is NOT the ultimate answer, keep that in mind when you discuss numbers.

Fixed to date information
Destruction
If you want to play destruction, play it as 0/13/58 - or 0/14/57(with SL) for a little more safety.
Soul Leech scales greatly with gear and mana and is too good to be traded for hit.

Affliction
To date, 56/0/15 and 55/0/16 are virtually identical in DPS.

Demonology
Warlocomotif has invested a great deal of time to write the Demonology Compendium that answers virtually any question regarding Demo Locks. I therefore cut down the information in this thread to a minimum and advise the interested reader to look at his great work.

Patchwerk comparison
Taken from the Simcraft post:
http://chart.apis.go...&chts=000000,20
I'm not a friend of telling someone "this is the spec you should have" - Blizzard ideology wants all specs to be viable and certain specs have benefits over others depending on the circumstances.

A few notable examples:
Affliction 56_00_15 and 55_00_16 differ themselves in play style only in the way they regain mana. LT vs DP.
However, if you let your pet die in the DP spec, you loose the benefit that spec brought with itself and have to resort to LT.

1] BiS gear choices
It is finally time to remove the old - Pre LK sets and adjust them with the BiS configurations.
You can find the current BiS configurations here.

Warlock_T10_55_00_16
Warlock_T10_56_00_15
Warlock_T10_00_56_15_pDPS
Warlock_T10_00_56_15_rDPS
Warlock_T10_00_13_58
Warlock_T10_00_18_53

Note:
Why Tusker's Vitality?
It is a personal believe that movement speed will increase your DPS on many fights over just damage.
This also comes true for encounters with critical movement needed - LK and defile as the prime example.

Has anything changed from 3.2?
One of the noteworthy things is that Destruction gains barely any benefit from the LT glyph.
In fact, running it with Imp or Immolate as 3rd glyph instead gives small gains.

The Demonology changes to Decimation and Molten Core greatly affect the playstyle(courtesy of Warlocomotif and Turturin):
Decimation
As of 3.3 the buff simply lasts for it's duration, it's not consumed, and throughout it's duration you can spam Soul Fire. That means that if you proc Decimation on an add and it dies, you can continue decimation for a short while on the next DPS target. This eliminates Soul Fire- shadow bolt weaving and range issues under 35%. Soul Fire can be spammed at that point while continuing to maintain corruption and immolate on the target as a priority
To get the most out of decimation, the first thing you'll want to do is get some kind of addon to tell you when it procs.

Something to keep an eye on is that if decimation expires while you're casting Soul Fire, the soulfire *will* consume a Soul Shard. It's okay if this happens once, but if it happens a lot its going to cost you a lot of soulshards in a talent spec that requires 1 soulshard for every wipe already anyway.

Again, read up on the Demonology thread for detailed information.

Molten Core
If the boss is above 35% one should switch to incinerate (from shadowbolt) when Molten Core procs until all charges are used (it can proc over itself so its not always 3).

If you fancy a more visual explanation, Optec has made great movie about Demonology here.

What stats should I focus on?
Generally SP > Haste > Crit for all specs except the rDPS.(If hit capped)
The haste "cap" only comes into play with Destruction at 1200+ values where it equals out crit in value.

2] The Trinket Discussion
For now I will disregard scaling values - unlike in the 3.2 version - and just compile the BiS profiles without and with single trinkets + the best possible combination. So in short, I run the BiS profile without any trinket - get a base DPS.
Then I add all trinkets, 1 by 1 on their own, take their values. And as last step I compile the top 2-3 combinations to see which comes out best. Adding the best 2 single trinkets together does not mean that together they will be the best option.

Demonology 00/56/15 pDPS
[TABLE]Dislodged_277 + Phylactery_277 | 12004
Dislodged_277 + Reign_258 | 11956
Dislodged Foreign Object_277| 11477
Dislodged Foreign Object_264| 11402
Phylactery_277 | 11355
Reign of the Dead_258| 11321
Muradin's Spyglass_264| 11307
Phylactery_264 | 11293
Reign of the Dead_245| 11275
Muradin's Spyglass_251| 11247
Nevermelting Ice | 11077
No trinkets at all | 10847
[/TABLE]

Destruction 00/13/58
[TABLE]Dislodged_277 + Reign_258 | 11676
Dislodged_277 + Phylactery_277 | 11640
Double Reign | 11462
Dislodged Foreign Object_277| 11047
Dislodged Foreign Object_264| 10981
Reign of the Dead_258| 10957
Phylactery_277 | 10924
Reign of the Dead_245| 10887
Muradin's Spyglass_264| 10870
Phylactery_264 | 10862
Muradin's Spyglass_251| 10808
Nevermelting Ice | 10602
No trinkets at all | 10364[/TABLE]

http://chart.apis.go...chtt=Affliction 56_00_15&chts=000000,20

http://chart.apis.go...&chts=000000,20

3] General noteworthy posts and information
How much are the set bonuses worth?
For this question I ran the BiS profiles with the respective options and manually disabled the 2pc/4pc bonuses.
Please be aware, this only gives us numbers that apply to the BiS sets - so I also added the %-deviation.
While the "_no2" parse is impossible to create, it serves it's job as recheck.

[TABLE]Spec | DPS | % | Deviation from max
56_00_15 | 13298 | 100% | 0
56_00_15_no2 | 13050 | 98,1%| 248
56_00_15_no4 | 12914 | 97,1% | 384
56_00_15_no2_no4 | 12683 | 95,4% | 615 => 2pc = 231[/TABLE]

[TABLE]Spec | DPS | % | Deviation from max
55_00_16 | 13178 | 100% | 0
55_00_16_no2 | 12937 | 98,2%| 241
55_00_16_no4 | 12812 | 97,2% | 366
55_00_16_no2_no4 | 12571 | 95,4% | 607 => 2pc = 241[/TABLE]

[TABLE]Spec | DPS | % | Deviation from max
00_13_58 | 11676 | 100% | 0
00_13_58_no4 | 11242 | 96,3% | 434
00_13_58_no2_no4 | 11079 | 94,9% | 597 => 2pc = 163
00_13_58_no2 | 11509 | 98,6% | 167[/TABLE]

Which gear pieces should I swap out first?
This is a personal suggestion, so please take it with a grain of salt:
With T10 gearing, we want to focus as on as much haste as possible as it benefits all 3 specs best(after SP).
The ideal items to replace, granted you had access to full T9 and TotGC gear would therefore be:
Head(spirit -> haste), Shoulder(spirit -> haste), Hands(crit -> haste), Chest(hit/spit -> crit/haste).
I personally use as the off piece on my warlock - as many others also do.
The first switch I made was head/shoulders - trading an awful lot of spirit to haste.(155 emblems)
The BiS T10 gearing suggests to get legs/hands as off piece.
The problematic switch with T9 to T10 is chest and legs.
T9 chest has hit/spirit - T10 chest crit/haste. T9 legs have crit/haste - T10 legs have hit/crit.
Whichever piece you switch out - you either gain useless hit or loose a lot of hit in the process.
I therefore suggest you wait with badges till you can make a double swap of chest/legs(that's 190 emblems) and then take the off piece gloves. It sounds like an awful trade off - but so far this is the best solution I found.

Another reason to buy head/shoulders first is the fact that they are parts in all possible specs.

How does 4p T9 245/258 compare to 2p T10 251/264 and 2p T9?
<tba>
Note: This is a hard one, I appreciate input with live gear sets tested.

Tell me something about T10 4p bonus
It does not have any ICD as of 27.1.2010.
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/1871/wowscrnshot012710000628.jpg

Which off gear pieces should I aim for?
There is only the gloves and the legs one should set his eyes on - it will be down to personal preference and demand.


Affliction uses either of the 2 items - both result in very much the same gain.
Destruction does currently not use any off-part because of the haste-issue - we will look into it and see if we can make a good suggestion there as well.

Why is Nevermelting Ice Crystal so good for Affliction?
Haste and spell power reset when Corruption is refreshed. However as of now(7.1.2010) crit is not.
So if you, as an arbitrary example, have 100% crit, cast Corruption and then drop down to 0% crit - your Corruption will keep rolling with 100%. NIC adds 20% crit - which is a lot and therefore ups your Corruption DPS by quite a bit.
Addition:
A good example can be found here where a player compares Abyssal Rune to NIC.
Abyssal rune:
corruption Count= 1.1|448.86sec DPE=877393|24% DPET=659783 DPR=1730.6 pDPS=1975 Miss=0.00% TickCount=209 MissTick=0.0% Tick=3141|2221|4050 CritTick=6564|4641|8466|45.9%

Nevermelting Ice Crystal:
corruption Count= 1.1|447.27sec DPE=1016073|26% DPET=751274 DPR=2004.1 pDPS=2201 Miss=0.00% TickCount=205 MissTick=0.0% Tick=3128|2277|3680 CritTick=6531|4760|7690|65.7%

This is a valid game mechanic as stated per Blue-Post.

Which spell for AoE?
There is a lengthy maths post starting here that goes through numbers but the current answer would be, if you AoE - then use Seed of Corruption over Rain of Fire.
Situational differences(like increased fire damage taken etc.. aside).

How to Affliction at the start of the fight - with
X. Additional pre tasks Use a weapon with high crit. Get a mage to give you Focus Magic(which he can then place on anyone else). Get a rogue to give you Tricks of the Trade.
0. Pre-combat Life Tap Rank 1 - spellpower boost, if you have the Glyph, which is still worth it.
1. Pre-combat (5% crit, pre-combat to allow for another potion during Bloodlust/Heroism).
2. Shadow Bolt (Applies 5% crit Shadow Mastery, only need one. First stack of Shadow Embrace).
3. Haunt (Applies 28% glyphed damage boost to shadow. Second stack of Shadow Embrace).
3a. Haunt is travelling now. Gently.
4. Curse of Agony or Unstable Affliction. Which spell you choose here will depend on the fight, your latency, your distance from the target, etc.
5. Activate . Gives you a 5-stack buff that amounts to 20% crit at 5 stacks. Yay. You don't want to activate the until after Haunt lands, because Haunt can crit, and remove one stack of the NMIC's buff (4% crit).
This is not theoretical: It happens! Proc NMIC after Haunt lands if you want the full 20% crit.
6. Corruption. By now, you should have 39% more crit than your base: 9% malediction, 5% potion, 5% ISB, 20% NMIC.
7. UA or CoA, whichever you didn't cast earlier.
8. Rotation.
Thanks to Aaryndon and Ralimenua for this addition.

Notes for retests:
I run the 95% of the tests with Latency low, 1000 iterations, 300 secs, 0% vary length, patchwerk style and player skill elite. For the other 5% I use 10000 iterations - which usually doesn't give any different results though.
Be careful when doing a WoWhead profile and blindly importing.
Socket bonuses are not found on some items, sockets can be missing and some items are still not properly imported in the current Simcraft release (V7).

#2 turturin

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 12:44 AM

Why are you focusing on 0/13/58 as a destro build when simcraft currently shows 0/18/53 as superior? The suggested buffs to destro by blues through empowered imp would only widen the gap in the favor of 0/18/53 I would think.

#3 Warlocomotif

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 12:47 AM

Great post :)

As for demonology; it just really needs to focus on rDPS instead of pDPS, I know it complicates things a lot- but the benefits to rDPS are too significant to only look at pDPS.
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#4 Madlax

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 12:54 AM

@tuturin
The last parses I took with ICC gear show 18/53 250-300 DPS behind.
As stated - prove me wrong and provide insight not tested and we can have a better look at things.

#5 Warlocomotif

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 01:18 AM

The problem most likely comes from the simulationcraft thread not using BiS T10 gear and 0/13/58 simply scaling better than the other 2. In tier 9 gear 0/18/53 comes out on top due to having higher base damage.
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#6 Sezar

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 01:23 AM

Why is Nevermelting Ice Crystal so good for Affliction?
Haste and spell power reset when Corruption is refreshed. However as of now(7.1.2010) crit is not.
So if you, as an arbitrary example, have 100% crit, cast Corruption and then drop down to 0% crit - your Corruption will keep rolling with 100%. NIC adds 20% crit - which is a lot and therefore ups your Corruption DPS by quite a bit.


can you confirm this please

#7 Fucty

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 01:34 AM

Although this is not directly related I just wanted to point out that it should not read "Phylateracy" but "Phylactery". Just discovered you also used this term in previous posts so I (and at least others perhaps) was somehow irritated to find the right link to the trinket. So please be advised. :)


#8 Madlax

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 01:36 AM

you can find a very good comparsion here where a player compares Abyssal Rune to NIC.
Abyssal rune:
corruption Count= 1.1|448.86sec DPE=877393|24% DPET=659783 DPR=1730.6 pDPS=1975 Miss=0.00% TickCount=209 MissTick=0.0% Tick=3141|2221|4050 CritTick=6564|4641|8466|45.9%

Nevermelting Ice Crystal:
corruption Count= 1.1|447.27sec DPE=1016073|26% DPET=751274 DPR=2004.1 pDPS=2201 Miss=0.00% TickCount=205 MissTick=0.0% Tick=3128|2277|3680 CritTick=6531|4760|7690|65.7%

#9 Naforce

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 01:36 AM

Great post :)

As for demonology; it just really needs to focus on rDPS instead of pDPS, I know it complicates things a lot- but the benefits to rDPS are too significant to only look at pDPS.


This is very true. It complicates the spec a whole lot. I've been playing and gearing for maximum rDPS since end-ulduar when we started outscaling totem of wrath by far. What this means in reality though, is that spellpower and spirit are your two main stats and that you usually have to do some quick math to see if losing some personal dps is worth it. Most situations include going for an item with spirit and crit versus an item with spirit and haste, where the item with crit has a little more spellpower on it. Other things such as trinket choices are also difficult, I usually raid with muradin + reign245 in 10man but muradin + illustration in 25man, even though the first choice gives me better dps. There is also a "hidden" effect of gearing for maximum spellpower - healers. This is very hard to measure and do any math on, but that extra spellpower can be extremely crucial for the healers. Imagine the tank being at 20k hp and the boss hitting for 40k, a heal doing 20.1k instead of 19.9k might just save you a wipe!

Anyhow, nice going Madlax and I hope you are willing to bring some of these points in to the compendium. It is important , not only for the warlock him-/herself, but also for the guild to understand why a warlock chooses not do top the dps-meters but to give some important buffs instead.

#10 Madlax

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 01:48 AM

I have added the 13_58 to 18_53 comparsion here: Issue 211 - simulationcraft - Warlock T10 profiles - Project Hosting on Google Code

Hope that explains the question - but it will be interesting to retest it once Blizzard decided on the upcoming warlock buffs.

#11 turturin

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 02:44 AM

Wasn't really intending to "prove you wrong", just wondering why you wouldn't trust the simcraft results. The explanation you provided makes sense, and yeah, if the buff goes through as stated it does merit watching.

Also in the noteworthy changes section, the changes to molten core and decimation alter the demonology rotation significantly. It is probably worth describing these changes briefly.

A note on AoE for each of the three specs might also be worth it as SoC seems to reign supreme for all three specs now (though there is still some discussion ongoing on the destro front).

Maybe in the trinkets section or in the gear discussion a brief discussion of Nieblung would also be helpful. The simcraft thread and the trinkets thread have had some interesting posts and empirical results (with more to come from me). While more info needs to be collected, its becoming clear that the proc on this item may be of significantly different value to different specs (as is true of the nevermelting ice crystal).

#12 Scamand

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 04:40 AM

Are you positive that Spell Power does not roll over with refreshes? While on a target dummy, if I refresh my Corruption at 4.2k SP (ring, trinket at 10 stacks and Lightweave all up) it constantly says "There is a more powerful spell already active on the target" each time I attempt to manually refresh Corruption, unless I refresh it under the same conditions as the first application). This to me seems like an indication of Spell Power rolling over. I'll look around for a bit more information, but I was under the impression that Haste was the only thing that was checked each refresh.

Edit: Nvm, spellpower is checked as well, tested on target dummy.

#13 violentravi

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 04:50 AM

How does 4p T9 245/258 compare to 2p T10 251/264 and 2p T9?
<tba>
Note: This is a hard one, I appreciate input with live gear sets tested.


After numerous attempts on practice dummies, raids, and simcraft, the other warlocks in my guild, and my self believe that T9 four piece is still superior for at least affliction.... I personally haven't tried with the other specs... but I recommend hording away your badges until you can do a full swap out.

The only reason I massively researched on dummies and sim is because I'm used to being the top warlock dps... and after swapping out for my 2 piece t10 the other warlocks surpassed me easily (with their 4 piece t9).

#14 Loxstar

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 05:36 AM

I would still think one would at least wan't to note the other destruction specs for fights with movement/long phase shifts (mimron etc) ISL's worth is extremely diminished, and thats the only thing 13/58 is bringing to the table over other specs.

Otherwise great work and glad to see warlocks finally having thread like this again.

#15 Tordik

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 06:28 AM

i've taken a look at the Affliction spec that you posted (56/0/15) and while through and through it is in fact a very good raiding spec i can't help but sit here and wonder what if the warlock chose to gem a combination of gem and hit (+gear) to get hit capped (17%) and then begin to put the 3 points from suppression into Fel Concentration?

as a warlock the way i see it .. the less hit i have to deal with in skills the better because i can focus on other talents that are more important in my opinion

as an Affliction warlock, however, i can only see this as being beneficiary due to the fact if the boss is near death (<25% health) and there is some kind of enemy AoE going on then the push-back would be much less for your drain soul and your DPS would not suffer nearly as much from it.

on the other hand do you possibly think that the 6% mana conservation would overall be more beneficial? i mean compared to the 70% resistance to spell push-back?

#16 Calidus

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 07:38 AM

i've taken a look at the Affliction spec that you posted (56/0/15) and while through and through it is in fact a very good raiding spec i can't help but sit here and wonder what if the warlock chose to gem a combination of gem and hit (+gear) to get hit capped (17%) and then begin to put the 3 points from suppression into Fel Concentration?

as a warlock the way i see it .. the less hit i have to deal with in skills the better because i can focus on other talents that are more important in my opinion

as an Affliction warlock, however, i can only see this as being beneficiary due to the fact if the boss is near death (<25% health) and there is some kind of enemy AoE going on then the push-back would be much less for your drain soul and your DPS would not suffer nearly as much from it.

on the other hand do you possibly think that the 6% mana conservation would overall be more beneficial? i mean compared to the 70% resistance to spell push-back?


I don't think you can look at it as 70% spell push back vs 6% mana conservation. You also have to consider that amounts of spell, haste, crit and spirit you could have if you freed up 3% hit on you gear. Another thing to remember is that spell push back was changed when 3.0 came out, you can only be pushed back 2 twice per spell now. Most of the time DS is only being channeled for 15-20% of the duration of the fight and in most cases and ends up being 15-20% of your damage. The Added DPS again from not having DS pushed back, can't make up for the extra stats that you loose, which effect the majority you spells not just 1.

#17 jordancub

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 09:33 AM

Yeah I agree with you there, with the 3 points, its soo benefitial, but what about the last 3 spare points, or even 2 in my case becasue I use DP now for mana. Seeing the way the 2nd wing in ICC is with constant AOE dam, having your spare points in there might be better than 6% mana. It's not just DS we are talking about, we are also talking about UA and Haunt.

#18 ~Thalia~

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 01:01 PM

Your BiS profile for 0/56/15 shows 11% hit rating, when this spec is hitcapped at 13% for Alliance or 14% for Horde. Didn't check the other profiles.
And the change to Decimate and MC changed Demo playstyle quite a bit, which you couuld have mentioned, as pointed out a few posts above.

Part from that, the post is really good.

Edit : checked the wrong rating, it actually is 14%.

#19 Madlax

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 01:21 PM

Do a reload, it should be at 14.07 with 369 hit.
60 neck, 50 MH, 82 gloves, 106 legs, 51 ring and 2 gems a 10 hit = 369.
The destro profile uses 2x10 hit gems as well - Alliance can just socket those with haste.
Note: I'm using Tusker as boot enchant over Icewalker/Spirit.

#20 Naforce

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 01:37 PM

Your BiS profile for 0/56/15 shows 11% hit rating, when this spec is hitcapped at 13% for Alliance or 14% for Horde. Didn't check the other profiles.
And the change to Decimate and MC changed Demo playstyle quite a bit, which you couuld have mentioned, as pointed out a few posts above.

Part from that, the post is really good.


It's actually 14% hit, you need to look at spell hit and not the other hit percentages. I'm quite certain that profile is not bis however, I'd switch the tier legs for the ones with haste and hit, , since haste > crit. Other then that it looks good!




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