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[Enhancement] BiS gear and set-up discussion (3.3 and onward)


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#161 rava

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 01:37 AM

Thanks for putting the time in. I'm waiting to update the OP until the trinket is added though. Weighing a proc as a passive stat won't translate the same way.
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#162 Guest_Alvarisle_*

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 01:04 AM

Question, would using hit rating battle elixir +stats guardian elixir and hit rating food be better than AP flask+feast? that way you get hit rating + haste instead of hit+AP, sorry if it's been answered before.

#163 FortheWhorde

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Posted 16 July 2010 - 09:47 PM

Question about the chart on the previous page. Hit rating as you have mentioned, raises the crit cap after hit has been capped. So when does gemming for hit which raises the crit cap/white damage, have less ep than gemming for attack power or haste. From my perception of previous posts and the chart posted, it looks as if haste does less dps than attack power and hit.

#164 Jessamy

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Posted 16 July 2010 - 11:41 PM

EP values are -- at best -- a quick and dirty way to find potential upgrades using a web site like lootrank, or an addon like pawn. The problem with EP is as soon as you equip a new piece of gear, change a gem, change a glyph, or anything, you have a completely new set of gear, with completely new EP values.

Some stats' EP values stay fairly steady as you improve your gear. ArPen, for example, always makes your physical hits do more damage. However, hit, crit, and haste all behave in more complex ways as they go up -- and they have chaotic effects on each other.

That's why whether you're deciding on an upgrade for your own personal gear, or crafting the best possible set of gear in the game, you can't compare individual items, or individual stats. You have to compare entire sets of gear.

Let me repeat that -- do not use EP to choose upgrades. Use EP to get a rough ballpark estimate of what gear you might want to choose from, and then sim out every possible set of gear you might have access to. This sounds overwhelming, but in reality your choices for any particular gear slot are much more limited than the vast listing available on wowhead.

Anyone in the future who criticizes the BiS list by using EP, or with any other method other than following the rules specific to this thread, will get an infraction. I'm not doing this to you this time, but let this be a public admonishment to you and all others who read this post considering making silly suggestions without real data.

#165 ziff

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 03:44 AM

Thanks for putting the time in. I'm waiting to update the OP until the trinket is added though. Weighing a proc as a passive stat won't translate the same way.


EnhSim 1.9.8.10 has CTS added, so you can use EnhSim to check it out. CTS was still showing up below the War Token with 12606 dps versus 12769, but I didn't play around with any combinations. Now I do have the CTS modeled with a 10% chance to proc and a 45 second ICD, which is the same as DFO. Not sure if anybody has the CTS and can confirm if these numbers are correct.

Just as a note, with the new version of EnhSim I fixed the overvaluation of the Glyph of Flame Shock. When I run the current BIS against 1.9.8.10 I get 12769 dps, but if I switch Glyph of Windfury Weapon for Glyph of Flame Shock I get 12824. So you might need to relook at the optimal glyphs.

#166 Delsin

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 12:35 PM

I'm not sure how many people still check this, but I decided to mess with the Halion loot and the BiS list. I think I have found a combination which uses the .

DPS: ~12842
It's only about a 13 dps increase, but I thought it was worth posting.

Link to my Rawr and Enhsim Configs/Output: MEGAUPLOAD

Items changed, to (gemming unchanged), and to (swapped one for a ).

I also changed the gemming of the belt from , , , to , , .

#167 rava

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 01:14 AM

I don't have any plans to sift through information and run sims to figure out what is best with the few remaining weeks we have left in the expansion. I will keep the thread updated if someone else wants to put the time into figuring it out, though.
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#168 Hothgor

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 03:31 PM

Just a couple of notes for my fellow shamans (who are too lazy to look elsewhere) that might hopefully answer a few questions. This should get us started on working out our BiS setup for the remaining weeks of Wrath before moving into Cataclysm.

Gemming:

  • Gem everything to agility.
  • I mean EVERYTHING.

You cant reforge into AP or Agi so it easily the best choice for gemming at the moment. In future tiers, the trend so far indicates that set bonuses will be much more valuable than they currently are (gems are going from +20 to +40 and set bonuses go from +4/6 to +20 for instance) making other gems much more attractive, but I firmly believe pure +agility to be the way to go until T11.

Reforging:

  • Reforge your items to ensure you are spell hit and expertise capped.
  • Reforge your highest rating stat on any piece of non-reforged gear to mastery.
  • Ensure you do not lower hit/expertise below your capped values.

Spell hit cap is 420 hit rating for Draenei, 446 for everyone else. Expertise is 139 for Draenei, and 116 for Orcs. Remember, you can not add hit or expertise to an item that already has those ratings. This ties in with gemming for agility, as we can not reforge into ap or agility making this a much more attractive option. I was able to hit around 16.17 mastery with this method for 40% bonus spell damage.

Enchanting:

  • Cloak Enchant should be Agility
  • Glove Enchant should be Agility.
  • Boot enchant should be Agility.

As suspected, after running the sim I found that enchanting for agility and reforging for the remaining hit resulted in ~10 more dps.

Trinkets:

  • Deaths Choice/Verdict and Sharpened Twilight Scale are our 2 BiS trinkets.
  • War Token and Deaths Choice/Verdict are a very close second.

I test this extensively with a slightly 'tweaked' EnhSim, and this trinket combination significantly beats out all others. DBW and TAB were significant dps losses, even with heroic versions. I was told this combination is exactly what rogues are using, which make sense given how similar our gemming/reforging/enchanting paths seem to be in 4.0.1.

EnhSim 'Hack':

  • Copy your regular stats.
  • Multiply Expertise and Mastery Rating by 3.905
  • Hit, Crit and Haste are your standard % values now (Draenei aura is included on character sheet fyi)
  • Lower spell power by 755 for each FT enchant you are running with.
  • Change Agi and Strength Buff to 155.
  • Remove UE and UE_FS from the priority, adding FS back in its place.

Final stats:

These are just MY stats after the above method was used: The World of Warcraft Armory - Hothgor @ Bleeding Hollow - Profile

Note that reforging does not appear on the armory just yet. Obviously, I expect someone else can do better, and eagerly await such changes :)

Edits: Many small grammar and spelling tweaks. Updated enchanting: I forgot that there was an agility to boot enchant.

#169 Cochice

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 04:54 PM

There's also a 16 agi enchant to boots which is going to out perform 32 AP and Icewalker.

#170 Rouncer

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 09:12 PM

Orc racial bonus also took a hit, it's only 3 expertise now with axes and fist weapons.

#171 bluethingy

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 01:54 PM

A note for engineers, tinkers for cloak, boots and gloves stack with normal enchants. I have no idea if this is intentional or permanant but it's handy.

#172 Jessamy

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 02:20 PM

I closed 34 shaman threads today. Most of them were old and unused and fell off the front page, so no one will notice they're gone. The enhancement BiS list was the only current thread I closed.

The BiS OP and discussion is no longer relevant with the new 4.0 class ability and talent changes. A new 4.0 LK thread is fine, if someone wants to spend the time with the sim to produce a new list. Contributions to a new list should continue to comply with the thread-specific rules outlined in this post:

http://elitistjerks....rd/#post1522663


Also please refer to this post to see how to use the current (level 85) version of the sim to evaluate level 80 changes:

http://elitistjerks....p7/#post1768768

The newest version of enhsim (2.0.10) is built for level 80 4.0.1 mechanics; you don't need to make Hothgor's adjustments anymore.




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