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Bigwigs/La Vendetta question regarding fear at Gluth as an example


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#1 Sebila

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 03:40 PM

Hi,

Disclaimer: I posted this in the "that one original mod" threat, but I think it gets lost there:

I'm still on the lookout for something better then LaVendetta and Bigwigs, or maybe I am not using them properly? (I just started to use them recently, first alone in my old guild and now just joined a new guild where they are the norm).

I.e., last night at Gluth, I was trying to clean up the mess if one or both of the MTs ahead of me died and while I had no problems building aggro, chasing him, moving him etc, fear messed me up each time... I couldn't, for the love of my life, rely on LaVendetta's timer (seem to be off by a few seconds), while Bigwigs drives me nuts with his bars progressing right to left (doesn't this mean that it always misses the first fear?)...

NOTE: I can stance dance just fine (i.e. at Nef, again when cleaning up, with a hint like earth shaking), but here I was relying on the timers from these two mods and they weren't helpful to me... Is there anything I'm missing or is it a better mod around?

Thanks!

#2 Whitemane

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 03:46 PM

Your fear counter works for several seconds, you don't need to know exactly when the fear pops but just an approximation. I've noticed that it isn't quite accurate either, but it wasn't much of a problem to our tanks.

#3 Praetorian

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 03:50 PM

Gluth will fear on average once every 20 seconds. He can fear as soon as 15 seconds after his last, or as long as 25 seconds after his last. That's all there is to it. You can't predict it more accurately than that. Pop Zerk 15 seconds after his last fear and you'll be fine 99% of the time.

#4 Hamlet

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 05:18 PM

Gluth will fear on average once every 20 seconds. He can fear as soon as 15 seconds after his last, or as long as 25 seconds after his last. That's all there is to it. You can't predict it more accurately than that. Pop Zerk 15 seconds after his last fear and you'll be fine 99% of the time.

Do you happen to know the exact numbers on Decimate timing?

#5 Praetorian

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 05:20 PM

Every mod I've seen is a bit fast on Decimate and I always call it accurately using just CT_Timer. Gluth will decimate 110 seconds after being aggro'd, and every 110 seconds thereafter, within a second or so. All the mods seem to have it as 105 for some reason.

Normally Gluth will decimate at:
1:50
3:40
5:30
(Berserk at 6:00)

Now, here's the fun part. Every time Gluth stops and actually eats a zombie, it prolongs his Decimate timer by roughly 5 seconds in my experience.

#6 Sebila

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 05:26 PM

Gluth will fear on average once every 20 seconds. He can fear as soon as 15 seconds after his last, or as long as 25 seconds after his last. That's all there is to it. You can't predict it more accurately than that. Pop Zerk 15 seconds after his last fear and you'll be fine 99% of the time.

I'll do that thanks!
Last night I was slow, not only b/c many things were happening (i.e. I had to build aggro ASAP after MT1 and/or 2 died, but not before), but since the other tanks died fast I was apprehensive that we got a healing problem and didn't want to stay too much in zerker stance (especially after seeing that MT2 didn't last more then a few seconds after he announced doing that). Finally I got an UI error on my screen (Something like CTMod error in lua at line 1734, can't find item in slot to use, when I was trying to use either life gem, last stand, shield wall???).

One more question though, any way to make the Bigwigs bars go from left to right, like La Vendetta ones and like most progress bars?

#7 Hamlet

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 05:28 PM

Every mod I've seen is a bit fast on Decimate and I always call it accurately using just CT_Timer. Gluth will decimate 110 seconds after being aggro'd, and every 110 seconds thereafter, within a second or so. All the mods seem to have it as 105 for some reason.

Normally Gluth will decimate at:
1:50
3:40
5:30
(Berserk at 6:00)

Now, here's the fun part. Every time Gluth stops and actually eats a zombie, it prolongs his Decimate timer by roughly 5 seconds in my experience.

Ok. I just guessed 2 min when I made our mod and have always been too busy watching other things to check more exactly.

Oh, here's why all the big mods have 105:
http://www.wowwiki.com/Gluth

#8 Sebila

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 05:28 PM

Every mod I've seen is a bit fast on Decimate and I always call it accurately using just CT_Timer. Gluth will decimate 110 seconds after being aggro'd, and every 110 seconds thereafter, within a second or so. All the mods seem to have it as 105 for some reason.

Now, here's the fun part. Every time Gluth stops and actually eats a zombie, it prolongs his Decimate timer by roughly 5 seconds in my experience.

Could it be b/c wowwiki lists it at 105 seconds?
My raid leader is not sure himself if it's 105 or 110...

As for eating zombies? We didn't let Gluth eat any, but we didn't heal the tanks properly either last night.

#9 Hate Monkey

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 05:39 PM

while Bigwigs drives me nuts with his bars progressing right to left (doesn't this mean that it always misses the first fear?)...

NOTE: I can stance dance just fine (i.e. at Nef, again when cleaning up, with a hint like earth shaking), but here I was relying on the timers from these two mods and they weren't helpful to me... Is there anything I'm missing or is it a better mod around?

Thanks!

When engaging any boss with a timered fear ability, its almost gaurenteed that the first fear is gonna happen within whatever the cooldown on the fear is. If you've ever tanked Magmadar, you should know this.

Now for the bars, if you right click on the BigWigs icon, and go to Boss mods->zone->boss and look at the options listed and whats checked or not, that controls the displays of the bars.

And if you dont know already, you can show the achor point of both the bars and messages and move them to where you feel them best fit.

edit: also one reason why most mods will do 105 seconds for decimate is to give time for the zombies that are inevitiably shackled in the healers to be pulled back away from gluth.
Bitterness is like cancer. It eats upon the host. But anger is like fire. It burns it all clean.

#10 Dayne

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 05:49 PM

We use RDX for our timer mods, and I've tweaked the Overrated Gluth mod a bit. In terms of the fear, he's pretty regular about it, but he can go early or late. I've had instances where I popped zerker rage right at 5 seconds and he feared *just* after the effect expired, and he's caught me early because I didn't stance swap soon enough. Now, I stance swap at 6 seconds left on the timer and actually press zerker rage at 4 seconds to go, and haven't had any problems yet.

For Decimate, we put the timer at 105 for the countdown, and then when that expires, a 10 second middle pop up warning that Decimate is Iminent, which is the cue for the kiters to start putting the chow in a central location for aoe

#11 Hamlet

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 06:04 PM

We use RDX for our timer mods, and I've tweaked the Overrated Gluth mod a bit. In terms of the fear, he's pretty regular about it, but he can go early or late. I've had instances where I popped zerker rage right at 5 seconds and he feared *just* after the effect expired, and he's caught me early because I didn't stance swap soon enough. Now, I stance swap at 6 seconds left on the timer and actually press zerker rage at 4 seconds to go, and haven't had any problems yet.

For Decimate, we put the timer at 105 for the countdown, and then when that expires, a 10 second middle pop up warning that Decimate is Iminent, which is the cue for the kiters to start putting the chow in a central location for aoe

Yeah, I use tweaked Overrated RDX mods for all our bosses too. It's a great place to start and saves a ton of work compared to starting from scratch, although nearly all of them need some adjustment (could those really be the bossmods that guild uses in raids?).

Maybe we should have a thread where people share bossmod ideas.

#12 Sebila

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 06:52 PM

Yeah, I use tweaked Overrated RDX mods for all our bosses too. It's a great place to start and saves a ton of work compared to starting from scratch, although nearly all of them need some adjustment (could those really be the bossmods that guild uses in raids?).

Maybe we should have a thread where people share bossmod ideas.

Please do so :)

Meanwhile where can I find your versions of RDX please?

#13 Zagzil

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 07:04 PM

Yeah, I use tweaked Overrated RDX mods for all our bosses too. It's a great place to start and saves a ton of work compared to starting from scratch, although nearly all of them need some adjustment (could those really be the bossmods that guild uses in raids?).

Maybe we should have a thread where people share bossmod ideas.

We are so pro that our Mods don't work. No seriously, I think it's an issue of how people start the timer, because our timers seem right on for 90% of the fights (C'thun is probably still broken and won't be fixed because we don't need timers at this point).

#14 Hamlet

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 07:12 PM

Yeah, I use tweaked Overrated RDX mods for all our bosses too. It's a great place to start and saves a ton of work compared to starting from scratch, although nearly all of them need some adjustment (could those really be the bossmods that guild uses in raids?).

Maybe we should have a thread where people share bossmod ideas.

Please do so :)

Meanwhile where can I find your versions of RDX please?

The base version of RDX is the Overrated one (they've only actually publicized one, right?), and I just overwrite the bossmods folder.

You can find what we currently use here:
http://www.sigilguil...XM_BossMods.zip

However, I'm not promising anything--please only try using them if you examine them yourself first. I make frequent tweaks and fixes.

In most of the ones I've played with, all of the event handlers are also bound to CHAT_MSG_OFFICER, which you can use to debug them and see what they do.

#15 Hamlet

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 07:15 PM

Yeah, I use tweaked Overrated RDX mods for all our bosses too. It's a great place to start and saves a ton of work compared to starting from scratch, although nearly all of them need some adjustment (could those really be the bossmods that guild uses in raids?).

Maybe we should have a thread where people share bossmod ideas.

We are so pro that our Mods don't work. No seriously, I think it's an issue of how people start the timer, because our timers seem right on for 90% of the fights (C'thun is probably still broken and won't be fixed because we don't need timers at this point).

Yeah, I wasn't trying to insult you guys. But, I mean, Faerlina's Enrage as a 60-second cycler? 40 second cooldown on Nef's class shouts?

#16 Dayne

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 07:16 PM

Yeah, I use tweaked Overrated RDX mods for all our bosses too. It's a great place to start and saves a ton of work compared to starting from scratch, although nearly all of them need some adjustment (could those really be the bossmods that guild uses in raids?).

Maybe we should have a thread where people share bossmod ideas.

We are so pro that our Mods don't work. No seriously, I think it's an issue of how people start the timer, because our timers seem right on for 90% of the fights (C'thun is probably still broken and won't be fixed because we don't need timers at this point).

The only instance of a blatantly incorrect timer I've found in y'alls release was in the Maexxna mod, where the web spray was wrong (I think it was timed for 30 seconds instead of 40). Other than that, everything's been fine, just had to add things to the mods, like with Gluth, a timer for Decimate since it wasn't there, and there wasn't anything at all for Thaddius except the Warstomps, so I added an enrage time and a polarity shift timer (both of which are pretty unnecessary, but people ask, so I deliver). The enrage timer for Faerlina also isn't right (or I should say, doesn't reset properly when she enrages), but we never cared since we use a strat that's based around preventing her from enraging instead of just catching it after it goes off.

Other than those small issues, the Overrated boss mods have always been spot on for us. The Gothik timers in particular are very very nice.

#17 Hamlet

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 07:23 PM

The only instance of a blatantly incorrect timer I've found in y'alls release was in the Maexxna mod, where the web spray was wrong (I think it was timed for 30 seconds instead of 40).

No, the Maexxna was a 30-second timer that started 10 seconds after the previous timer ended. It should have worked in theory. The problem was that it cycled, instead of triggering at each new Web Spray. For things where you want down-to-the-second accuracy, you really don't want to be "dead reckoning" with a cycling timer.

I put in an RPC that fires on Web Spray, and it works fine.

#18 Dayne

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 07:29 PM

The only instance of a blatantly incorrect timer I've found in y'alls release was in the Maexxna mod, where the web spray was wrong (I think it was timed for 30 seconds instead of 40).

No, the Maexxna was a 30-second timer that started 10 seconds after the previous timer ended. It should have worked in theory. The problem was that it cycled, instead of triggering at each new Web Spray. For things where you want down-to-the-second accuracy, you really don't want to be "dead reckoning" with a cycling timer.

I put in an RPC that fires on Web Spray, and it works fine.

Ah, that was it then. Either way, it didn't work, and I got gibbed during web spray because I wasn't topped off. But one of my guildmates found an improved version on these boards with a perfectly working timer, and a window for the folks who got web wrapped to boot. Integrated that into our distribution, and haven't had any problems with it since. Like I said, other than the few quirks, the mods have worked just fine for us, obviously the 'change' to C'thun broke the phase 1 timers for a bit, but I think it's to the point where everyone in the guild could do the fight without any timer mods at all now. The other AQ40 boss mods are fine (well, ok, for the Visc mod to 'work', you have to keep restarting it after he reforms, but not like that's a big deal). Can't speak for the MC and BWL mods though, those instances were off our schedule before we switched to RDX

#19 Hamlet

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 07:33 PM

Ah, that was it then. Either way, it didn't work, and I got gibbed during web spray because I wasn't topped off. But one of my guildmates found an improved version on these boards with a perfectly working timer, and a window for the folks who got web wrapped to boot. Integrated that into our distribution, and haven't had any problems with it since. Like I said, other than the few quirks, the mods have worked just fine for us, obviously the 'change' to C'thun broke the phase 1 timers for a bit, but I think it's to the point where everyone in the guild could do the fight without any timer mods at all now. The other AQ40 boss mods are fine (well, ok, for the Visc mod to 'work', you have to keep restarting it after he reforms, but not like that's a big deal). Can't speak for the MC and BWL mods though, those instances were off our schedule before we switched to RDX

Yeah, same for us on MC/BWL.

I thought I remembered C'Thun P2 being broken out of the box. Either way, I redid all of the P2 timers, added an RPC that actually handles vulns correctly, and added a feature that auto-transitions from P1 to P2.

#20 Sebila

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Posted 21 October 2006 - 04:16 AM

Now for the bars, if you right click on the BigWigs icon, and go to Boss mods->zone->boss and look at the options listed and whats checked or not, that controls the displays of the bars.

About Bigwigs again: Is there a setting for making the bars progress left to right, rather then the default right to left please? Can't seem to be able to do it (also posted on the Ace forums but no hint yet)

Thanks




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