Jump to content


Photo

ICC Crimson Hall-Blood Princes


  • Please log in to reply
75 replies to this topic

#61 Broxx

Broxx

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 42 posts

Posted 25 January 2010 - 01:20 AM

The empowered fire orb doesn't have a cast time, as far as I know.


It has a 3 second cast.
Conjure Empowered Flame - Spell - World of Warcraft

#62 gia

gia

    ♥

  • Members
  • 562 posts

Posted 25 January 2010 - 10:41 AM

Just for the record, I iceblocked an empowered fire orb on my mage and died anyway. Unless it was some kind of fluke due to latency, it appears to ignore immunity effects.

#63 Handyhoof

Handyhoof

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 152 posts

Posted 25 January 2010 - 01:55 PM

We can assume then that the fire orb works like other spells with delivery times. I.e. calculated mechanically on finish of cast, not on impact.

#64 Rhaegal

Rhaegal

    Don Flamenco

  • Members
  • 495 posts

Posted 25 January 2010 - 01:57 PM

Is there anything other than hitting the ground that can cause a Kinetic Bomb to explode? Last night we had two Bombs blow up in mid-air for no apparent reason. Confirmed by the person in charge of them and by two other people who watched it happen--the bombs were nowhere near the floor, ceiling, or even any of the walls. They just exploded out of the blue. Out of 4, maybe 5 learning attempts for the majority of the group who hadn't seen the fight before (only myself and the person handling Bombs had), we only had it happen on two Bombs.
Stand back! I'm going to try SCIENCE!

#65 Hegen

Hegen

    In gear/DCT lock pin

  • Members
  • 1,540 posts

Posted 25 January 2010 - 03:13 PM

How are people handling the healing in 10 man? The raid healing required is so much higher than any other fight in the game so far. I've seen logs where people are 2 healing it, and that seems insane, but maybe there is something my raid is missing.


We used 3 healers and the "two tanks + ranged tank" strategy. Our guild had another kill this week, using only 2 healers ("insane" pretty much summarizes what they said). That said, they had a shadow priest who provided a whopping 2800 HPS, due to VU profiting from the damage buff as well as helping out with shields and even some heals.

My impression from the fight is that if you use 3 tanks (two physical + one range), you more or less need 3 healers, as you just have too many targets taking damage spikes. As soon as healers need move, it gets pretty risky.

If you just use two tanks without a ranged tank, thinks should look brighter. In that case, a composition of a holy paladin + holy priest or (proabably better) druid, should do it.

In any case, as long as the group has the necessary dps to run with 3 healers, I would do so. 2 healers will always be risky as soon as movement is involved, so why waste valuable tries?

The simple fact is this. We are told to concentrate more. But we can only do that if we are allowed to go considerably faster.


#66 ShaidarLock

ShaidarLock

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 35 posts

Posted 25 January 2010 - 04:19 PM

Is there anything other than hitting the ground that can cause a Kinetic Bomb to explode? Last night we had two Bombs blow up in mid-air for no apparent reason. Confirmed by the person in charge of them and by two other people who watched it happen--the bombs were nowhere near the floor, ceiling, or even any of the walls. They just exploded out of the blue. Out of 4, maybe 5 learning attempts for the majority of the group who hadn't seen the fight before (only myself and the person handling Bombs had), we only had it happen on two Bombs.


This is unconfirmed by myself but our orb bouncers claim that if there is a DoT on the orb when it despawns naturally it will still explode. Take this with a grain of salt but once they decided this it didn't happen again.

#67 Miloh

Miloh

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 45 posts

Posted 25 January 2010 - 05:24 PM

I posted this on the holy paladin forums as it seemed most suited there but got very little feedback (none), so I figured I'd try here. On one of our 25man attempts we had a holy paladin who bubbled something for safety reasons and then targeted by an empowered fire orb, followed by blowing up all the melee. Has anyone else noticed the fire orb requiring a none-immune (possibly in a certain range, we weren't able to verify whether said paladin was potentionally too far away) target?


We had a Mage Iceblock during his cast. This resulted in the orb immediately detonating when the cast finished, all but wiping out our melee.

#68 Mideci

Mideci

    Great Tiger

  • Members
  • 821 posts

Posted 25 January 2010 - 08:33 PM

In any case, as long as the group has the necessary dps to run with 3 healers, I would do so. 2 healers will always be risky as soon as movement is involved, so why waste valuable tries?


While I generally agree with your point about using 3 healers, it should be noted for those that are confused by this: The only thing valuable about those tries is your time. Blood Princes is not a "limited attempts" boss and therefore if you really wanted to perfect strategies, you could simply try it out 20 different ways.

#69 zh4990

zh4990

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 22 posts

Posted 25 January 2010 - 09:49 PM

We used 3 healers and the "two tanks + ranged tank" strategy. Our guild had another kill this week, using only 2 healers ("insane" pretty much summarizes what they said). That said, they had a shadow priest who provided a whopping 2800 HPS, due to VU profiting from the damage buff as well as helping out with shields and even some heals.

My impression from the fight is that if you use 3 tanks (two physical + one range), you more or less need 3 healers, as you just have too many targets taking damage spikes. As soon as healers need move, it gets pretty risky.

If you just use two tanks without a ranged tank, thinks should look brighter. In that case, a composition of a holy paladin + holy priest or (proabably better) druid, should do it.

In any case, as long as the group has the necessary dps to run with 3 healers, I would do so. 2 healers will always be risky as soon as movement is involved, so why waste valuable tries?


Conversely, my 10man this week used three tanks (two pallys and a DK on Kelseth) and only two healers, myself a shaman, and a resto druid. We had no real issues with healing, and to boot, I died stupidly to a shock vortex about two thirds of the way through. It was a one shot, but it became immediately obvious that our Kelseth tank (frost DK) simply did NOT take damage that a rejuv couldn't out heal, and the other two tanks were kept up with lesser healing wave and an earthshield. We had our arcane mage handle the falling orbs, and found that to work well for us.

Ultimately, we found that a druid raid healer was more then enough to keep the raid alive, and a resto shaman kept up with any gaps as well as keeping up the tanks. I do not write this to "show off" per se, but to illustrate that three healers isn't completely necessary, and to show that even losing two DPS (one mage and one DK), the loss of incoming raid DPS due to orbs staying in the air was a major help and demonstrates that this encounter isn't a major DPS check - bringing extra healers if you're having trouble is totally viable.

One interesting thing about the encounter though, unrelated to your post, is that I found that the orbs did not move upwards with my Flame Shock on them. I expected them to move up due to the initial damage of FS, and to ignore the DoT portion, but it seems that the orbs simply refuse to recognize FS entirely. Did I simply miss the upward movement, or have other shamans encountered this as well?

#70 Gilg

Gilg

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 25 January 2010 - 10:38 PM

One interesting thing about the encounter though, unrelated to your post, is that I found that the orbs did not move upwards with my Flame Shock on them. I expected them to move up due to the initial damage of FS, and to ignore the DoT portion, but it seems that the orbs simply refuse to recognize FS entirely. Did I simply miss the upward movement, or have other shamans encountered this as well?

Flame Shock (the initial hit) worked fine for me when I used it on the 10-man version yesterday.

#71 Hegen

Hegen

    In gear/DCT lock pin

  • Members
  • 1,540 posts

Posted 26 January 2010 - 04:52 PM

Edited: got the wrong log, nevermind - but here's a better use for this post slot:

Ultimately, we found that a druid raid healer was more then enough to keep the raid alive, and a resto shaman kept up with any gaps as well as keeping up the tanks. I do not write this to "show off" per se, but to illustrate that three healers isn't completely necessary, and to show that even losing two DPS (one mage and one DK), the loss of incoming raid DPS due to orbs staying in the air was a major help and demonstrates that this encounter isn't a major DPS check - bringing extra healers if you're having trouble is totally viable.


When comparing your log (World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis) with ours (World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis), it becomes obvious that your group was able to prevent much more damage than we did. The HPS numbers for 2 healers looks surprisingly close, only that we needed one more.

So much better execution is obviously possible, and in that case, the third healer isn't necessary, I agree.

Regarding Midecis comment: you are correct, council doesn't consume tries.

The simple fact is this. We are told to concentrate more. But we can only do that if we are allowed to go considerably faster.


#72 ShowXdown

ShowXdown

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 19 posts

Posted 26 January 2010 - 08:03 PM

The first time we tried Blood Prince we did it with a Warlock. The Warlock caused several wipes, but also the boss mechanics were pretty unclear (He Just held 3-4 nuclei at the same time and often got melee killed).

Yesterday we did it with 1 Warrior tanking the 2 melee bosses and 1 Pala for the Caster. He allways had 6 nuclei on him. Melee dmg was nerfed by 10% but iam Pretty sure a decent warrior would also have handeled that.

So for Ilvl250+ Tank Groups i would suggest 2 Tanks and 3 Heals. (3 Heals for the reason that it's much safer). This will also make your fight very static and cleaner and you can pretty much ignore most of the abilities of the Encounter as 3 Healer just need to heal 1 Tank and hot the other.

However i am sure the tactic with 1 warlock 2 melee tanks and 2 or 3 heals is also possible, but more complex and thus just harder

#73 cupcakes123

cupcakes123

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 5 posts

Posted 27 January 2010 - 11:32 AM

As a resto druid in 10 and 25 mans its pretty easy to gather orbs. We are very mobile as well as we can just FF something. I don't do the fight in tree form, but to be honest the fight is fairly trivial as long as people understand the mechanics.

#74 zh4990

zh4990

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 22 posts

Posted 27 January 2010 - 04:21 PM

Edited: got the wrong log, nevermind - but here's a better use for this post slot:
*snip*
So much better execution is obviously possible, and in that case, the third healer isn't necessary, I agree.


For kicks and giggles, Here is the log you were referring to. I agree that our execution was the cause of our success: I died due to a bad mistake, and our druid had to heal to the finish.

To echo some of the other posts about their Kelseth tank: in our 25man, we used a warlock, and in our 10man I linked above we used a DK. We originally tried getting our pally to tank Kelseth in our 25man, but the warlock's range and ability to instantly get aggro on stray orbs ultimately made him the better choice.

#75 xmod2

xmod2

    Don Flamenco

  •  Patrons
  • 458 posts

Posted 27 January 2010 - 07:54 PM

As a resto druid in 10 and 25 mans its pretty easy to gather orbs. We are very mobile as well as we can just FF something. I don't do the fight in tree form, but to be honest the fight is fairly trivial as long as people understand the mechanics.


How are you able to hold aggro over the DPS? Or are you just gathering them for the other tank to pull off of you?

#76 Lucinde

Lucinde

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 168 posts

Posted 05 February 2010 - 01:24 PM

So for Ilvl250+ Tank Groups i would suggest 2 Tanks and 3 Heals. (3 Heals for the reason that it's much safer). This will also make your fight very static and cleaner and you can pretty much ignore most of the abilities of the Encounter as 3 Healer just need to heal 1 Tank and hot the other.

However i am sure the tactic with 1 warlock 2 melee tanks and 2 or 3 heals is also possible, but more complex and thus just harder


We've been doing this on 10-men with 1 normal tank, 1 ranged tank and 2 healers since the encounter got unlocked and it never struck us at healing heavy. 80% of the raid damage in the encounter is perfectly avoidable and using 7 DPS to kill them makes it fairly quick as well, ensuring you have to worry less about bad kinetic bombs and overall attrition.

We tend to stick a paladin on the fire and kinetic princes and a shadow priest on Keleseth. Once the shadow priest has gathered 4+ nucleii, vampiric embrace and a few dots will keep him up forever as long as Keleseth is not the empowered target. I imagine an affliction lock can do something similar, although he will lack the 15% flat damage reduction.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users