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Prince Keleseth Tanking Discussion (Moved from the 3.3 Compendium)


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#21 Copola

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 07:08 AM

In 25 man I had no time at all to actually DPS the other bosses while juggling gathering up the dark nuclei and generating threat on Keleseth for when he becomes active. Anyone actually able to juggle all three tasks? I kept having the other DPS say threat was a huge issue for them when I was attempting to DPS the other active targets. The majority of the time I was really just running around trying to keep 5 orbs on me.

#22 Morwen

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 07:52 AM

In 25 man I had no time at all to actually DPS the other bosses while juggling gathering up the dark nuclei and generating threat on Keleseth for when he becomes active. Anyone actually able to juggle all three tasks? I kept having the other DPS say threat was a huge issue for them when I was attempting to DPS the other active targets. The majority of the time I was really just running around trying to keep 5 orbs on me.


This probably has to do with the positioning. We were tanking the melee princes in the middle of the room, so like you I had no time to do much other than run around the perimeter collecting orbs. I can believe that if you are tanking Keleseth in the middle and/or allowing the raid to ferry orbs to you then you would be able to help on the other bosses.

#23 Ensipid

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 08:02 AM

In 25 man I had no time at all to actually DPS the other bosses while juggling gathering up the dark nuclei and generating threat on Keleseth for when he becomes active. Anyone actually able to juggle all three tasks? I kept having the other DPS say threat was a huge issue for them when I was attempting to DPS the other active targets. The majority of the time I was really just running around trying to keep 5 orbs on me.


At first yes, then i started using Meta and pre potting on pull and spammed searing pain. I also ignored the dark nuclei at the start to get a threat lead on Keleseth. The threat lead i gained at the start allowed me to focus more on the nuclei mid fight.

On a side note the threat on the nuclei seems odd. I think they just gain 1k threat on whoever was the last person to hit them, regardless of what it is you do to them ( which makes picking them up extremely easy )

For mitigation I used glyph of soul link, 3/3 molten skin and a felhunter with master demonologist and overall it felt like overkill.

I'm curious how this will work on heroic where the incoming damage will be higher and I think less nuclei will be up.

#24 Relmesh

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 09:59 AM

I was Meta (56/15) spec for tanking this, being as I'm the only lock in our guild right now. Wore PvP gear, had 32k HP. Anyways, at the start of the fight I would searing pain 1-2 times for a quick bit of threat, then shadowbolt>soulfirex1,000,000. As demonology you can chain cast soulfires the whole time he's not empowered (he is always at 1 hp therefore sub-35%) so I just go Meta form at the beginning of the fight and spam damage into him with a hunter misdirecting me on CD, never had any threat problems using that strategy.

As for the orbs, I found corruption worked wonderfully for tagging them, and I had no problems keeping aggro on them. I organized with my healer to run around the room grabbing orbs with me and we communicated a lot to stay out of vortexes on the ground. After a few trial-and-error attempts it went down like clockwork and we got The Orb Whisperer. :)
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#25 Eglan

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 11:18 AM

I have found that Keleseth on the 25-man version sometimes moves towards you between casts, and if you're unlucky (read going towards a dark nucleus) and happen to pass by his side, he melees you. This was annoying as I had problems seeing him under all those nucleus.

As for the gear, I just equipped both 170-stam brewfest trinkets and normal gear, without any damage reducing talent besides Soul Link. Worked just fine.

About the imp and the kinetic orbs; we lost one of our trys for Lana'thel because the imp pulled the orb above the ceiling to lana'thel's room and pulled her. Fun times...

Edit: forgot about the spec; used a normal 3/14/54 for it. Only problem was keeping enough agro on him as we killed him on our first try on 25. One rank 7 Searing Pain was enough to keep all the dark nucleus glued to me.

#26 Eiffeltower

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 12:24 PM

Last night I was using standard Destro PvP spec to tanking Kelseteth.

- Do not spend the entire fight running around. Get a raid member to bring the orbs from the spawning points above the stairs to you (I had my fellow demo lock cast & kite to me). Moving only means you risk crossing paths with Kelseteth
- Corruption on the orbs seemed to work fine, but i opted for CoA for longer duration.
- I was using Voidwalker on passive, and had a macro for 'CD's which i used everytime he empowered:
/cast sacrifice
/cast shadow ward
which can help the healers during the switch.

But honestly, As long as you have 4-5 orbs on you, you should be fine taking the empowered lance.

#27 Shagaire

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 01:30 PM

Tanked last night in my affliction PvP spec using the good hit parts from my PvE gear mixed with relentless.

I always started the fight and kept him pretty much where he starts and position myself between him and the left wall, don't forget that you can cast drain soul from the start and get 4x bonus being sub 25% so threat should never be an issue. This position means that should I get hit by anything I'll go towards the wall and not to him and die to melee. From there just dot him up and drain soul in between fishing for Nucleus.

I could reach a lot of the Dark Nucleus spawns on my side of the room myself and always used one tick of drain life to do so. A shadow priest positioned himself in the middle(ish) of the room and would pull the Dark Nucleus with a rick of mind flay and I would take it off him with a drain life tick. You don't need to touch the Nucleus after they are on you and the positioning means that no other damage should be on them for you to lose them.

I used a felhunter last night as I didn't know if the damage was resistible, next week I'll try and use an imp to keep one of the Kinetic Bombs up while I'm tanking.



Raid log if you want information World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
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#28 matornot

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 05:48 PM

I was specced 0/15/56 and had the same problem of getting 1-shotted by melee hits, so I put on my furious gear with stam gems/enchants, which allowed me to take a melee hit now and then, unless of course Kel was empowered, but during that phase I have a better sense of where he is so it works out.
In terms of Nuclei, I would just continually run to the newly spawned ones and cast a single Searing Pain which was enough to keep them on me for the remainder of their life span.
I'm not exactly sure about the aggro situation on Kel himself. I know that on some attempts I had spent most of the beginning of the fight gathering Nuclei and called out when Kel got empowered that I didn't have much aggro on him, but MDs seemed to keep him on me, and people knew to watch aggro. We wiped 5 times on our first night (3 of which due to me getting meleed) and 1-shotted him on our second night.
I've been considering going Meta Demo for tanking, since the 10% spell mitigation from Master Demonologist with Felhunter might be more useful than the somewhat erradic Nether Protection, especially since it isn't triggered by Resonance. Another reason is that in the event that i get meleed to death, i can pop with with SS, pop Metamorphosis, do the AOE taunt to get the nuclei back and Kel's aggro before he 1-shots too many people. Thoughts?

#29 Reeshet

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 07:35 PM

I'm expecting to have to tank Keleseth on my warlock tonight. The advice to use Drain Soul at the start to get the 4x bonus is a great idea.

But our guild planning discussion was whether to use 1 tick of drain life or to just shoot a wand at the Dark Nuclei. It seems that a wand hit would be a little more efficient and do less damage to the Nuclei than channeling or casting a spell. My plan to tonight is to try to pick up the Nuclei using a wand.

#30 North

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 07:48 PM

Melee hits have been removed via hotfix:


World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Recent Icecrown Citadel Hotfixes

Blood Prince Council

- Prince Keleseth will no longer melee players. So if you get knocked into Keleseth or happen to move by him, he won't swipe in between his casts and kill a non-tank.

#31 matthewseidl

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 08:20 PM

I'm expecting to have to tank Keleseth on my warlock tonight. The advice to use Drain Soul at the start to get the 4x bonus is a great idea.

But our guild planning discussion was whether to use 1 tick of drain life or to just shoot a wand at the Dark Nuclei. It seems that a wand hit would be a little more efficient and do less damage to the Nuclei than channeling or casting a spell. My plan to tonight is to try to pick up the Nuclei using a wand.


Wands take time when on the run though. For 10 man, I think rank 1 corruption or CoA is still the answer. The aggro table really seemed to be 'who tagged me last'. So a wand would work, and do less damage, but will make it harder to collect them all, and you gotta get them all.

For aggro gen, I'd use whatever your spec's high dps move is. As a meta/ruin lock, I tagged the boss with an abolt, got up a couple of dots (and CoE), then spammed soul fire. In 10's without any aggro transfers I was way ahead of my dps by the time they got to the boss. As affliction, I'd get some dots up and drain soul. For destro, I'd mix searing pain in with conflag/chaos bolt/backdrafted incinerates.

Now that the boss won't one shot his tank with a melee hit, it shouldn't be hard to collect up the balls and keep aggro. I still wouldn't want to try to do too much else though. I could see dotting/peting the kill target, but it seems like beachball handling would be rough.

#32 sheng

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 08:35 PM

I'd use 0/33/38 spec with fel hunter, glyphed soullink, life tap, searing pain. spam searing pain, grab orbs and boss. One searing pain is enough to keep orbs stay on you.

Some ppl may say Drain Soul is good to hold threat. IMO, it depends on your spec. even with 4x Drain Soul tick dmg, w/o affliction spec and dots, drain soul only deals roughly 7-8k dmg a tick. But Searing Pain can crits with faster casting time than a DS tick, generate way more threat if proper specced.

I had no threat issue, this build has max survival abilities, you can even use full PvE gears to tank the prince. But the problem is obiviously you can't help dps on the other princes.

#33 Dtiger

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Posted 23 January 2010 - 12:16 AM

*long time reader first time poster*

I was given the job of tanking this boss earlier this week. I tried it with my PvE affliction build. This, sadly, didn't go over too well. So I was looking around the Warlock Den for some ideas. What I saw was that most people were specing for maximum DR so as to be able to survive the first few moments without nuclei, as wel as being able to survive those moments when you are low on nuclei.

The build I took from this was 0/36/35. With this I used the Fel Hunter for a pet. My Glyphs were Life Tap, Searing Pain, and Soul Link. Also I used Demon Armor for the bonus to healing revived.

With this spec and a little bit of practice, I was able to tank Prince Keleseth in both 25 and 10 to completion.

The two things that also helped me a good bit was the use of a searing pain macro as well as having my raid members bring nuclei that were to far away over to me. The second bit helped the most when he was empowered.

I hope this information can be of use to some people.

#34 Klavarnae

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Posted 23 January 2010 - 06:41 AM

a question about soul link, i tanked this fight in our 10 man with the imp to help on the beach balls, the only thing was my imp was dying from my first hit of the empowered lance, i then re-read the soul link ability and it states the dmg can't be resisted. i get from this that my imp would take 30%(glyphed) of the normal empowered lance which would kill it for sure. anybody else have this problem or thoughts on it?

#35 pitibull

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 08:33 AM

When I was asked to "tank" keleseth on my lock I respecced into survival spec (neteher protcetion, molten skin etc...).
I also changed my trinkets to stamina ones and glyphd soul link/searing pain.

At start I spammed searing pain and had no problem keeping aggro on the prince... but we kept on wiping and I kept dying from empowerd bolts.


And then I found out... WE WERE DOING IT ALL WRONG.


The fight is almost entirly about picking up the orbs and keeping them on yourself. Yes, you need aggro on the prince - but you shouldn't have problem generating it with a usual demo build (or other builds, demo just offers more mitigation). Only at the first few seconds you will be able to die (a good healer can keep you up no problem), and after you get 3+ orbs (and keep stacking them) the fight is already yours.

The key to this fight is getting initial aggro very fast on the prince, and then picking up EVERY orb you can with rank 1 corruption/CoA. This will keep the orb on you most of the time. Other dps must not use AOE when near an orb, so they won't aggro on it.
Between orbs keep nuking the boss, just guarentee you have as many as you can for when the boss is empowerd. When he's empowerd the real "threat issue" comes up - and you just have to keep nuking him (I think normal spells will be fine, but you can buff it with searing pain as well).
If you keep dying too fast - swap one of your glyphs for soul link and switch felguard for felpuppy. Inform your healers that they should try to keep your pet alive as well, and tell them why.
If you're using a felguard you can stick him to the killable prince every time, also help with dots and a soul fire here and there.

Changing the focus from building aggro on prince to gather orbs - made the fight A LOT more easy.


TL/DR - The fight is all about getting and keeping the nuclei on you. keep normal PVE build, glyph soul link, gear stamina trinkets, beg the DPS not to use AOE or hit the orbs even once. When the boss is active - nuke him as much as possible for threat (normal spells or searing pain - whatever works for you).

#36 Buxwy

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 11:09 AM

I tanked the twins thursday and dit the "Orb Whisperer" with my classic destruction template: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (i changed it yesteday for 10man to get the improved soul leech)

I was wearing my usual pve gear, and i had my voidwalker, using my shadow ward and sacrifice when up.

I started the fight with immolation, chaos bolt, conflagration and incinerate until i had 100k threat on omen. After that, i spent the all fight putting my corruption on all the dark nucleus I saw. When Keleseth was active the rogues and hunters misdirected me (2 rogues/2hunts).I spent my fight running to the orbs

Here's the log: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis


(sorry for my english, it's not my native language)

#37 frenzy20

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 07:49 PM

So far there has been quite a bit of "this worked for me" and not a lot of "this is the best way to do it". I realize this fight is tankable by any warlock with a decent amount of stamina and Soul Link.

Nonetheless, I set out to create optimal specs to tank this fight with. Our primary goal is to stay alive, this means all the damage reduction and stamina talents we can get. I came up with 0/30/28+13 as a core spec. This gets all the stamina talents, Soul Link, Fel Synergy to help with pet healing, Molten Skin, Master Demonologist for the magic damage reduction with the Felhunter out, and of course Nether Protection. Any talents other than these are pretty much filler.

Once staying alive is out of the way you can focus on doing damage or generating threat. Notice I said "or". I did some experimenting using SimulationCraft and my PvP gear(full Relentless, haste offset) to get reasonable amounts of haste/crit/stam/int for a Warlock in "tank" gear. I came up with 3 specs with 3 different main goals that are still ideal or close to it for tanking Keleseth. One thing I'd like to point out is that you will only need to generate at most 1/2 of the threat of a normal tank because in a worst case scenario your boss will be empowered second.

The first spec is for absolute maximum threat while still holding the core spec already chosen. The spec is 0/33/38 with Soul Link, Searing Pain, and Life Tap glyphs. The play style is just keep Immolate up and spam Searing Pain. The DPS with this spec was 4899 with Searing Pain doing 3009 DPS for a total of 7908 TPS.

The next focuses on maximizing damage while still taking as little as possible. 0/38/33 with Soul Link, Quick Decay, and Incinerate glyphs. The play style is keep Immolate up, and spam Incinerate, or Soul Fire under 35%(most of the fight in this case). My simulated DPS with this spec is 5512, with no threat modifiers. This should still be more than enough to not have threat issues.

The last is a lot like the previous except with a Felguard. With this spec, 0/43/28, you will take about 5.56% more damage but in my case the DPS jumped to 6261. Glyphs were Soul Link, Felguard, and Quick Decay. This is played like full demo because you don't have Emberstorm. I can see this being practical in a 10 man where your damage matters but you should switch to a Felhunter for 25 man. On average you will only be actually doing damage to the boss 1/3 of the time, so keep that in consideration when choosing a spec.

I did experiement talents and play styles such as Conflagrate + Searing Pain, Searing Pain + Molten Core, and Conflagrate + Molten Core + Searing Pain but in the end I thought it would be most appropriate to post the highest DPS and highest TPS specs.

Edit/Note: Yes I realize this fight can be tanked by your 3rd tank now that you need one for Putricide. I also realize that this fight is easily tankable by almost anyone on normal mode provided you have strong healers. I wrote this up partially out of boredom, but also because some people might have trouble with it, some people do respec just for this fight, and we don't know what heroic mode will be like. The point is to clear up what specs are optimal if you do need to or choose to respec.

#38 Kryptik

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 09:55 PM

Not to try and sound condescending or anything, but I tanked this in a pug, with pug healers, with just a normal Demo spec and regular pve gear and one shot it without much problem.

56/0/15

With the hotfix to his melee swings I was able to spam searing pain on him at the start, get my regular rotation going and go around and Rank 1 Corruption all the adds that spawned. Healers had really no big problems keeping me alive and threat was never an issue.

#39 dakalro

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 12:01 AM

I have not yet seen partially resisted Empowered Shadow Lances (2x warlock, 1xhunter), for anyone thinking about resistances. At the same time, normal lances are always resisted (Shadow Prot buff).

#40 Madlax

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 12:20 AM

I'd say that would be a little odd if you don't have any partial resists.
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