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Prince Keleseth Tanking Discussion (Moved from the 3.3 Compendium)


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#41 Sumie

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 06:48 AM

We have a destro lock who used to tank the stationary Jormungar wyrm in Northrend beasts, with a spec that included Soul Link + Nether Prot (mainly giving up Soul Leech in the typical 0/13/58 builds). Building snap threat as destro is no problem and SL + Nether Prot is more than enough mitigation even in PvE gear. Your pet gets healed easily through Fel Synergy and doesn't really need off-healing from SL.

It works fine for Kelesath, but since you're not called upon to really DPS, but rather to build a strong threat lead (in which you're given ample time at the start) + gather orbs, an affliction PvP build using PvP gear + some hit offpieces works just as well. Gives you the extra range on a rank 1 CoA which really helps. Soul Link + siphon life self-healing + almost 34k health buffed is more than enough to tank, and you can use a voidwalker for the extra shield.

#42 jibi

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 08:34 AM

I tanked him in both 25 and 10 using regular PvE builds, either 56/0/15 or 0/56/15.
Threat is never an issue unless you're not doing anything but chasing the nucleis.
Searing pain is useless in both cases, as you get much better results using either SF spam while Corr is up in demono, and standard execute range cycle in affli.

Being demono specced is only an advantage for the first seconds of the fight, while you're running with few nuclei attached to you. After that point, if you're doing your job right, it doesn't matter if you have SL, or any other damage reduction talent. If you need such things for a kill, you should probably question your healers :)

#43 Khazkull

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 11:10 AM

Tanked him with standard 0-56-15 specc and SF-spam, as many people already described.

I used Corruption to aggro the Dark Nuclei, as it has the added benefit of higher Molten Core uptime.

Didn't use the Felhunter, but the Guard. Felhunter means less damage, lower DP uptime and only provides 5% less damage from Keleseth.

#44 zerla

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 12:36 AM

I tanked them on my lock but frankly we found the mage tanking with blink to nucleii much easier.

From a lock perspective, using your imp to keep the Kenetic balls up helps to have main dps on the kill targets. We just set the pets on the dropping spheres and maintained dps.

#45 venom89

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 11:44 PM

Hey!
I tanked the prince in the 25-man version 2 days ago as 0/56/15 and we managed to get the "Orb Whisperer" Achievement. I didn't change the spec for this particular fight.
The only thing I did: I replaced the "Glyph of Quick Decay" with "Glyph of Soul Link" and I equipped as much PvP items as possible without falling under the hitcap. I had 31k life.

Plus: I replaced the Shadow Bolt, Searing Pain and Soul Fire spells by the following focus-target macros:

/cast [target=focus] Shadow Bolt

/cast [target=focus] Soul Fire

/cast [target=focus] Searing Pain

This requires to set the Prince as focus target before every try of course.

I sticked to the Demon Armor since the 26% (6% more from Talent) more Healing received seems very helpful in this fight. The pet i used was the Voidwalker.

To the fight:
Cast 2 or 3 Searing Pain (fast casts to get initial aggro) and drop CoE on him. Then cast 2 Shadow Bolts (Decimation proccs, since he has below 35% Health whenever he's not empowered) and spam Soul Fire.
To collect Dark Nucleus target them and use Rank 1 Course of Agony. This is the point where the macros come handy: you don't need to tab/click back to the prince to cast on him, just cast ;)

When the prince gets empowered, pop Meta and cast on him, to hold the aggro (hunters and rogues should misdirect/tott on you in this phase!). Keep an eye on the number of orbs on you and watch out for new orbs spawned nearby you.
If you tend to fall below 4 orbs you should get more orbs asap! If there are no orbs near you ask a ranged DD to kite one in your direction. In case you can't get it soon enough and you have only 3 or 2 orbs on you, use the Sacrifice of your Voidwalker and your Shadow Ward!
Always keep an eye on the Health of your Voidwalker. If he shouldy die by any circumstances use Fel Dom, resummon him and cast Soul Link asap!


Things we noticed during our first tries:
If the WL tank gets kicked back, the orbs are not in range for a few secs -> WL tank dies @ the next Empowered Shadow Lance.
Players which stand in the Dark Nucleus will pull them after a time, so tell them to stay away (especially in the empowered phase!)

#46 Mordekhuul

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 02:14 AM

Always keep an eye on the Health of your Voidwalker. If he shouldy die by any circumstances use Fel Dom, resummon him and cast Soul Link asap!


Why not use your felhunter for the 10% magic damage reduction? Are you figuring that the ability to emergency-shield yourself when kicked out of orb range outweighs a flat 10% reduction?
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#47 venom89

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 01:08 PM

if you get kicked out of range of all orbs you'll die anyway ;)
but if you got 2 or 3 orbs on you.. lets say you get 50k damage (don't know the exact numbers): 25% gets absorbed by your pet:

50k - 25% = 37.5k

10% flat damage reduction by fel puppy (i calc with the 50k, correct me if i'm wrong):

10% of 50k = 5k

37.5k - 5k = 32.5k

The Shield absorbs 10885 Damage (with Demonic Brutality Talent):

37.5k - 10885 = 26.615k


I don't know if my math is accurate ;)

#48 deselution

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 01:29 PM

I used my Voidwalker, Had a Disc priest on me and took the orbs with r1 corruption
When he goes Empowered: Earth Shield -> Shadow Ward -> vw shield -> Pain Supression -> Healtstone if needed.
Took him after 2 trys after I tanked, Just announce to your healer when your going to the "stage" as I called it or to the "entrance of the room" and it will be fine, and don't do like me and Tap when hes empowered!

#49 venom89

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 02:05 PM

took the orbs with r1 corruption


I use r1 CoA, cause it lasts 24 Seconds

#50 Ensipid

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 08:46 AM

Tanked him with standard 0-56-15 specc and SF-spam, as many people already described.

I used Corruption to aggro the Dark Nuclei, as it has the added benefit of higher Molten Core uptime.

Didn't use the Felhunter, but the Guard. Felhunter means less damage, lower DP uptime and only provides 5% less damage from Keleseth.


I used a felhunter this week 2nd time in a row, I'm using 2 pc tier 9 but I had a 95.7 % uptime on my demonic pact. So the only benefit you'd lose over using a felguard would be his damage.

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#51 shwa96

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 05:57 PM

People are making this way too complicated. Tanking Kel is 2 button face roll and quite a bit of fun, actually. I think probably any spec could do it, but if you've got Soul Link, Nether Protection, Molten Skin, and Master Demonologist with Felpup, the damage will be laughable. You don't even need to wear PVP gear. The only time there's any stress at all is when I have to remind the healers to heal my pet from SL damage.

Bind the following macro to a conveniently spammable button.

/target prince keleseth
/cast searing pain

Bind every other key to Rank 1 Curse of Agony and mash your face into the keyboard.

Seriously, though... it makes it easy. Spam the searing pain macro while you look around the room for DN. When you see one, target and tap Agony. Use Rank 1 so they don't take a lot of damage. Go back to spamming your macro, which will automatically target and cast. You don't have to worry about where you are because he'll follow you, so just watch out for vortexes while you're running around getting orbs, and it's not a bad idea to drop your portal at your starting location so you can get back there quickly. It also helps to have a hunter MD. Not that you necessarily need it, but since the prince only has 1 HP at the start, the hunter can use Kill Shot to give you a massive threat lead. A few Searing Pains and no one is ever going to pull off you. Even if you spend the majority of your time running across the room for orbs or keeping gravity bombs up in the air, he'll stay on you.

Enjoy the change of pace.

#52 shwa96

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 06:03 PM

And as an aside for those who don't realize it, demo locks that are on DPS duty can spam Soul Fire the entire fight. If you incinerate one of the princes who isn't empowered, it'll proc decimation for the one that is. Make a few target, cast macros so the switching is easy, and you'll destroy the DPS charts. Unfortunately, I haven't had occasion to do it because I've been on tank detail every time, but I talked to a demo lock, he tried it and confirmed that it worked.

#53 tuberqlosis

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 07:31 PM

Ok, my little 10-man guild is looking on starting up this wing, and I have a few questions about being the ranged tank.

I've seen a few videos (namely the TankSpot ones), and read more than a few posts that claim "just toss pets on the beach balls, all will be well". Does the blueberry do enough damage/swing fast enough to keep a single beach ball from landing on the ground? I ask because I'm the only permanent pet class in my 10man, but I still think my group would benefit from this if it works. On that note, can I outrange sacrifice? I plan on testing this myself in a non-combat method when I can log into the game, but I still think its a worthwhile question.

Do the shadow resist orbs stay with you if you demonic teleport around the room, even if they are not currently dotted before/after the TP? (Assuming noone else tags them, as they apparently have a "who last hit me?" aggro table)

Thanks in advance for any responses.

#54 shwa96

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 09:43 PM

Ok, my little 10-man guild is looking on starting up this wing, and I have a few questions about being the ranged tank.

I've seen a few videos (namely the TankSpot ones), and read more than a few posts that claim "just toss pets on the beach balls, all will be well". Does the blueberry do enough damage/swing fast enough to keep a single beach ball from landing on the ground? I ask because I'm the only permanent pet class in my 10man, but I still think my group would benefit from this if it works. On that note, can I outrange sacrifice? I plan on testing this myself in a non-combat method when I can log into the game, but I still think its a worthwhile question.

Do the shadow resist orbs stay with you if you demonic teleport around the room, even if they are not currently dotted before/after the TP? (Assuming noone else tags them, as they apparently have a "who last hit me?" aggro table)

Thanks in advance for any responses.


Yes, melee pets work just fine. However, even in 10 man, I believe that the orbs can overlap, so if you only have 1 pet class, you'll need someone to be on top of it. My 10 man has 4 pets, but the hunter handles it by himself, pet on one and auto shot as necessary. That said, it'll stay pretty close to the ground with a melee pet, so if the pet dies, there's very little time to react before the bomb hits. That happened to us in 25 when I put my felhunter on one of them. The healer let him die when I was too far away to health funnel, and we blew up 2 seconds later.

I do question the use of the blueberry for tanking kel though. The bubble isn't going to be particularly effective as you have to time it for when he's going to hit you with spike damage, and one hit from him per minute is all you're going to be able to mitigate. You'd be much better off picking up Master Demonologist and using the felhunter. 10% magic damage mitigation from the pup plus 25% mitigation from Soul Link (if you're glyphed) plus 6% reduction with Molten Skin is all you need. 10% mitigation all the time > 8K mitigation once per minute. Plus the issue of range from your pet is non-existent as long as the healer doesn't let him die.

Last question, yes, the orbs stay on you if you teleport.

#55 ultrajustin

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 09:51 PM

I was tanking this, but now that he no longer melees..... we've found a feral tank to be far better as it allows healers to focus more (beacon) and you to dps. You may want to suggest this.

The bear can tank 2 princes. Orbs are immune to swipe (it won't kill them), and faerie fire is a ranged direct damage attack in bear form that will stick orbs to them. Swipe/md aggro is enough since the princes are only focused 1/3rd of the time.

#56 matthewseidl

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 10:05 PM

I was tanking this, but now that he no longer melees..... we've found a feral tank to be far better as it allows healers to focus more (beacon) and you to dps. You may want to suggest this.

The bear can tank 2 princes. Orbs are immune to swipe (it won't kill them), and faerie fire is a ranged direct damage attack in bear form that will stick orbs to them. Swipe/md aggro is enough since the princes are only focused 1/3rd of the time.


We also switched to having a normal tank tank him. We use a DK tank, who IT or death coil's the orbs and otherwise pumps high aggro moves into the prince. I still do it in 10's, since we don't have a spare tank, but even in 10's I wonder if the right answer is what you're doing. Have 1 tank with 2 princes on him, and someone else ferry the orbs to that tank.

#57 shwa96

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 10:11 PM

I was tanking this, but now that he no longer melees..... we've found a feral tank to be far better as it allows healers to focus more (beacon) and you to dps. You may want to suggest this.

The bear can tank 2 princes. Orbs are immune to swipe (it won't kill them), and faerie fire is a ranged direct damage attack in bear form that will stick orbs to them. Swipe/md aggro is enough since the princes are only focused 1/3rd of the time.


Interesting idea. That might be the way we have to go for heroic. Unfortunately, my guild doesn't have a bear tank. Our only feral is a kitty, and if he switched to bear, we'd lose just as much dps. Plus, he's a keyboard turner/clicker. Somehow still manages to do great dps, but I'd worry about his ability to efficiently gather orbs and keep threat. If he were a real tank, it might be different.

#58 scaffold

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 11:20 PM

My guild has never used ranged tank on him. He did over 20k melee attacks but thats not something a 58k HP paladin can't take.
Personally I do not see any advantages a warlock has over a standard tank in this fight.

#59 Madlax

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 11:47 PM

We used a Destro warlock with SL/NP and 300 SR in the first week.
Our alts used a Spriest with stamina gear.
This week we opted for our 60k hp feral druid that would just FF the nuclei.
Have to say, that worked very well - except for the 1 rogue that pulled some strange aggro.
WoW Meters Online - Combatlog Replay - Hyo in case you want to check.

Granted, that makes warlock tanks look a bit obsolete for now - who knows how the HM will be.
Min range requirement? SR needed? We certainly make fine tanks, so don't throw your gear away yet.

#60 Zak

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 09:29 AM

If you are using a normal tank on Keleseth, it doesn't have to be a feral or DK - for the last 2 weeks we've been using 2 warriors, 1 tanking Keleseth and pulling nucleii with throwing skill, and 1 tanking the other 2 bosses. Works fine.




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