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Save me from Twin Emps Trash


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#1 livenletdie

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Posted 07 November 2006 - 06:24 PM

So my guild has been working on Twin Emps for a while now. We’ve been battling attendance issues for the most part and have yet to really get serious about the encounter. However I feel that is about to change, people are getting unhappy with just tier 2.5 legs and boots. The main issue people do not show up for this encounter I believe is the trash, most of us have no issue getting rolled by the actual Emps but 5-7 wipes just getting to them turns a lot away. So I was hoping that maybe I could get some tips that your guild uses (I.E any guild that does this trash w/o issue) in hopes that with some tweaking we can go a lot faster and get that many more attempts on them per night. So here are some issues I think we currently have.

1. Meteor/thunderclap- Do you have everyone but like 3 high HP tanks stand out of the thunderclap? Or do you all stack up and put on NR gear?
2. How effective is NR gear on your melee vs thunder clap? Our ranged dps is a bit on the weak side at the moment, would melee in NR gear help this or will it be too much to heal, I’m speaking of say… Thunderclap Plague combo’s.
3. How do you handle satura adds? The warrior adds can be feared but the satura adds seem to be able to 2 shot a healer if the fear is not quick enough. Perhaps a satura tank and a healer crew dedicated to this?
4. Do you all spread out for plague, or stay grouped up and just send the plague member out of the group? Currently we spread out and ask the plagued to move a bit father away but usually this translates into the guy running through the raid and spreading 4-5 ticks of the damage.

That is about the summation of our issues. I know either way I’ll be hard pressed to convince them to try it any other way but I figured maybe some unique ideas will pop up here. I know for a fact that my guild is not the only one that has issues with this part and I hope other guilds will benefit form reading this.

Sorry if this is a repost of a question on a topic already covered. I do not remember a thread like this but if there is one I have no problem removing my post.

Thankyou in advance
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#2 Dayne

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Posted 07 November 2006 - 06:31 PM

Some of our melee does wear NR gear for the pre-emps trash, but for the most part it's not that big of an issue. We just split into two groups, melee on him, ranged further back and the healers deal with it. The sartura type adds are fearable as well, we just do the same thing we do on Fankriss, fear rotation, and the warriors help out. Plague people run away from the group and go die in peace.

#3 livenletdie

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Posted 07 November 2006 - 06:35 PM

We have never killed an emp via straight ranged dps, so I do not eunderstand why we keep trying.
How resistable is the thunderclap? with 315 nr (totem) does it become a joke?

#4 Praetorian

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Posted 07 November 2006 - 06:36 PM

Start out in two clumps: A warrior clump (wearing NR gear), and a ranged/healer clump ~30 yards behind them. Pet pull from a distance so you get advance warning of the Defender's abilities. If Shadowstorm, the ranged group runs up. If Thunderclap, then no one moves.

1) Shadowstorm

a) +Meteor = Easiest by far. Everyone piles on, burn him down.
i) With Swarmguards -- melee kills them almost instantly as they spawn
ii) With Warriors -- warlocks/warriors/priests chain fear them

b) +Plague = Everyone piles on -- if someone gets plagued then run off to the side ASAP. If and only if the MT gets plagued, everyone else spreads out. If you spread out right away (within the shadowstorm donut, of course), then there won't be any safe area to go if someone gets plague.
i) With Swarmguards -- melee kills them almost instantly as they spawn
ii) With Warriors -- warlocks/warriors/priests chain fear them

2) Thunderclap

a) +Meteor = All tanks stay in and soak meteors. Ranged DPS the Defender -- mix between dedicated tank healing and group healing. These pulls can be very mana intensive if you get a bad reflect combination (e.g., Shadow/Frost with lots of warlocks and frost mages).
i) With Swarmguards -- rogues kill them as they reach the group; they have nothing else to do
ii) With Warriors -- this combination is probably the hardest possible one; priests and warlocks chain-fear them

b) +Plague = All warriors except the one MT get out of Thunderclap range, everyone spreads out.
i) With Swarmguards -- warriors and rogues kill these
ii) With Warriors -- stray tanks try to keep these off the healers as they get feared

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#5 discofiend

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Posted 07 November 2006 - 06:42 PM

we usually have 3 or 4 rogues in NR gear each pull to stand with the tanks in case of met/thunder.

As for sartura adds, ... i mean, rogues are pretty jobless other than "hit shit" most of the time, so to have them take the responsibility to cover those adds which have roughly 2 hitpoints isnt that bad of a thing imo. The adds will come from the same direction (at least for a few waves), so after the first one comes in, every rogue should know where the next one is coming from and be able to gouge then burn it down before the next one is spawned.

#6 Sirloin

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Posted 07 November 2006 - 06:44 PM

There was some discussion of twin emps trash in this thread.
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#7 Papajan

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Posted 07 November 2006 - 06:49 PM

We generally do what Gurg said, except that
1) we have melee wear NR and stay in for Thunderclap (in case of a meteor)
2) we normally fear the Swarmguards
3) we usually have 1-2 warriors trying to catch any adds before they're in trample/cleave range of casters

We tried using me as a MA for ranged to dps the Swarmguards and such a couple times, but people wouldn't assist me for some reason (I guess some tired, some in the rut of doing the same thing every week). I definitely suggest having ranged kill any little yellow bugs asap to keep them from interrupting healers and killing any swarmguards that are low on HP if there are 3+ up. If you're alliance, try to setup groups with concentration aura on healers and warlocks - that seems to help speed up the fears a little bit. Some nights it goes like trash should - killing them all quickly with few deaths. Other nights, it seems like people just aren't awake, so naturally that causes problems.

I think it would be possible for the locks that fear Swarmguards to load them up with DoTs and have those die that way, but I don't know if it would be enough damage to kill them and I don't know if it would be enough dps to kill it before it despawns anyway.

#8 FunBall

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Posted 07 November 2006 - 06:50 PM

1. What worked for us is to have the warriors stack together for Meteor/Thunderclap. That is because we've usually got one warrior per group, so healers were already pre-assigned to them. We usually have 2 healers per warrior, and they should have no problem at all keeping a non-tank up through thunderclap.

2. NR will be affective, although we don't have any strategies based around it and don't use it often. What is more important to have a limited number of people going into T'Clap, and that the healers know who it's going to be.

3. For the Sartura adds, we do a few different things. We either have the priests run a fear rotation (set this up ahead of time), or melee takes care of them. Any time you have plague, melee should be handling the adds, since you can't stack up for fears. Killing the Destroyers obviously takes longer if your rogues and warriors aren't on them, but it is much more controlled, and your healers get to live through the fight.

4. Spread out for plague. On T'Clap plague, the person just runs back behind the healers. On shadowbolt plague, we have a designated area for plague victims to move to so that they don't get bolted to death.

The biggest thing for this fight is to have all your strategies laid out ahead of time. Spend 15 minutes before your first pull calling out "shadowbolt/meteor", "thunderclap/plague", and see how fast people react and get to the correct spots. It doesn't cost repair bills this way to figure out if the raid actually knows what the heck they are doing.

#9 zepi

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Posted 07 November 2006 - 06:50 PM

If you have hard time starting the Meteor + TC combo, assing meteor-soakers and their tanks beforehand and let them stay in unless it's 100% certain that it's a combo that needs them to spread out. Eating extra TC to make sure it's not a meteor which can potentially 1shot your tank is easy if you have assigned healers. Usually, about 99 out of 100 times, you can tell before your tank hits his first attack which the abilities are.

Also, In-case of Shadowstorm and Poison, why let everyone else move when MT gets the plague? Wouldn't it be more elegant to let MT move few yards away from the rest of the group. Other poisoned victims should move accordingly to give enought space for group + MT.

#10 subscience

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Posted 07 November 2006 - 06:56 PM

Here's a graff for Plague (which we had the most trouble with):

http://homepages.nyu...h_guardians.gif

Edit- Also, someone pointed out that the Warrior/Swarmguard spawn on the Guardian's right side (your left when you're facing each other). You can position him so that the Guardian's right side is furthest away from the raid giving you a bit of a heads up when they spawn.

For example:

[ ] Spawns
Tank <- Guardian

Raid

#11 Sirion

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Posted 07 November 2006 - 06:57 PM

All the combinations are very easy with the exception of Thunderclap+Meteor, simply because it is mana intensive for healers. We generally keep whoever is tanking the Destroyers in a bit of NR gear, and have the melee DPS wear the same stuff they had on during Huhuran-- gives us enough nature mitigation to make this nasty combination a bit easier.

To prevent the adds that spawn during these encounters from owning the ranged DPS and healers, we keep all tanks not tanking the destroyer grouped up with the ranged group, allowing them to pick up adds very quickly. Which brings me to another point: using two bunched up groups simplifies these encounters, at least for us. Keep your melee/MT in one bunch, and keep all ranged (healers, OTs, ranged DPS) in another bunch ~10 yards behind them. If you get shadowstorm, simply have the "ranged" group move up to the melee group.

Also, we usually keep an imp with a raid symbol/lucky charm over its head in an area a few yards away from the raid where anyone with the plague should head toward; tardproofing ftw.

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#12 livenletdie

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Posted 07 November 2006 - 07:03 PM

Thank-you for the tips. I hope that with this post i can convince my guild to atleast let melle kill swamguards if they still wont let us go in on thunderclap. I'll see about having our MT wearing a few of the btter NR pieces in hope of taking the edge off thunderclap.

#13 Ghostz

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Posted 07 November 2006 - 07:04 PM

I was kinda hoping for some overrated jokes when I opened this thread. :(

#14 Antarius

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Posted 07 November 2006 - 07:04 PM

We use a set rotation on our warlocks with each warlock using a macro to automatically set a specific raid target over the mob that he is going to keep feared for the next 25 seconds or so until it despawns. Since we tend to take anywhere between 4-6 warlocks on any given raid, this tends to work well for us, with either type of spawn, although granted clumped up with the aoe'ing ones tends to be a bit tricky, we usually manage.

#15 Hamlet

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Posted 07 November 2006 - 07:05 PM

On any pull with Swarmguards, we had ranged DPS (or least some portion of us) switch targets and drop them, often while Feared. I think it's important for people new at this to realize the importance of prioritizing Swarmgaurds. If you don't, they'll mess you up much worse than Warriors.


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#16 livenletdie

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Posted 07 November 2006 - 09:33 PM

Nice touch arwethion. I'll bring this info to my guilds eyes. At the very least I know I'm going ot be lobbying ot kill swarmguards, and perhaps have at least 3-4 roguesdps in nr gear on T.Clap& Meteor.

#17 Shaker

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Posted 07 November 2006 - 09:51 PM

Just as a note - for rogues, it's all about add control. 1 rogue can keep an add completely locked down till it despawns, with gouge, kidney shot, more gouge, even emergency blinds. We just dps the swarmguards, but for warriors, more often than not we just have a rogue keep one busy. The only time rogues aren't really doing add control for us is when we have Meteor/Shadowstorm/Warrior, in which case everyone's in there, we fear the adds, and rogue dps is on the an00b.
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#18 livenletdie

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Posted 08 November 2006 - 12:11 AM

hmmm Looks like I'll mention the rogues role also, someone said the swarms had about 6k life, any estimation on the warriors? Do most people think they're better off killed than feared?

#19 Boevis

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Posted 08 November 2006 - 12:27 AM

We fear regardless, keeping as much DPS on the Guardian as possible to make the fight shorter. After he's dead, try and kill everything, the warriors usually despawn before we get them all.

#20 Emily

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Posted 08 November 2006 - 01:29 AM

Thunderclap + Meteor:

From my experience, Emps won't cast Meteor on the number 1 on the threat list. So on the pull, keep your stack of warriors on the tank spot in case MT gets targetted by a meteor as the mob comes in, but once the tank has aggro, the other warriors can scurry off the ranged spot and help rogues on the adds. Makes it much easier on the healers.




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