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ICC - Sindragosa (Normal)


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#41 dr_AllCOM3

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 12:12 AM

Phase 3 is not a race at all. It's the best to calmly play her down. Assign your dual-wield melees to attack the tombs and it's not a problem.

#42 Silmeria

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 12:14 AM

You are wrong. Check ANY Sindragosa log and you will find partial resists.

For that matter it's the only way you will ever do any Frostmourne quests on a non-tank spec (we did it with a ret spec using a few pieces of frost resist and no external CDs, for example).

#43 Guest_alberico_*

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 06:47 AM

Sorry, decided to remove my post. Stuff about the weapon questline should probably stay in the thread for it. I'd get pretty pissy if I came here for Sin tips and found a page of weapon questline tips instead.

#44 MatsT

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 02:52 PM

We don't treat this fight like a race in p3. In our 25 man, we put all melee on the frost tombs 100% of the time. Healers and our 3 tanks are in their own channel to co-ordinate so that the tank survives for every frost breath. They reset their stacks whenever they decide it's time to. Ranged are assigned to dps only the boss, they do not help melee on frost tombs so that they aren't killed too fast. Ranged only need to step behind to reset their stacks every 2nd frost tomb, once they're reset they step out and resume on the boss.

This gives everyone a clear single job to focus on and ensures steady damage on the boss. As a raid leader I just have to remind everyone to re-clump in a central spot so that tomb targets have a clear area to go to.

Our sever has gotten the sindragosa raid weekly quest twice in a row for 25. We've missed it both weeks as we were more concerned with just killing her for the first time and then getting our shadowmourne quest done, but the way to do this is to have all dps channel when she's at <1 million health. She should get up to the 75 stacks required pretty quickly, then you finish her off, having 1 person maintain the channel so the buff doesn't fall off. It's easy when everyone does it for a few seconds rather than a couple people doing it all the time.


After you reach the required amount of stacks they will disappear and a new debuff will appear that allows you to loot the quest item. Thus, you don't have to keep up the stacks all the way until she dies. You can only channel when the boss is below 20% HP, but it should be quite easy as long as melee channels when resetting debuff, and casters when they get Unleashed Magic. Though, obviously it's still a step up from a normal kill so you might not want to do it for your first kill.

#45 Blacksen

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 08:58 PM

Just another note about Unleashed Magic - it appears to be something that you can line of sight. In our 10man last night, we have every single player get behind every single ice block. I was the only caster DPS, and so throughout phases 1, I would always get targeted (as noticed earlier in this thread).

However, phase 3 helped quite a bit as I often had major gaps between the debuff. We frequently had gaps where no one had the caster debuff at all, probably because all 4 potential targets (me+3 healers) were behind a block when she cast it.

#46 Klatzy

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 06:01 AM

Another note about backlash, it's affected by resilience it seems, which makes sense since it's your (ie player) damage.

From attempts with no pvp gear

Stacks of instability (backlash damage before resists and absorbs)

6 (12000)
5 (10000)
8 (16000)


With pvp gear on, with some or all pvp gear.

Attempt #1
7 (13748)
3 (5800)
1 (1898)

#2
4 (6584)
8 (13168)
2 (1641)
11 (18051)

#2 is where I'm pretty sure was wearing around 800 resilience ~17% percent damage reduction.


Obviously you don't want to gimp your dps too much, but if you have comparable pvp gear you may want to swap it in to reduce backlash damage.

#47 Zak

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Posted 17 February 2010 - 09:41 AM

I read a while back about people using a single tank on this in 10-man, and thought we'd give it a try, since it seems a bit of a waste to have an OT who basically contributes nothing for the first 2 phases, no matter how trivial they are. So we spent an evening last night with me in ~420 FR gear solo tanking. My stacks were still getting pretty high though, as p3 goes on for quite a while, so we ended up doing a tank swap to our usual OT who was in DPS gear - she would taunt after getting pulled into the boss, then shield wall when the cast bar was nearly finished, allowing me to quickly run out to the ice block, drop my stack of Buffet then run back and taunt before her shield wall was done. Then she could go back to dps.

This worked ok most of the time, but seems kinda risky to be much of a good plan. Are people who solo tank this ever dropping their stacks? Or do they out-gear the place? We only do 10 man raids, sometimes pugging the first 4 25-man bosses for extra badges, so the raid is mostly in i245 gear, apart from 251s from ICC-10 and crafted pieces. We're usually pretty competent, killed Algalon and did 10-man Insanity a few times before ICC.

With our strat we had a couple of 6-7% wipes, and we are failing due to bad positioning on tombs or stuff like that so it does feel doable, but the whole ghetto-tank swap thing feels a bit wrong.

#48 Mericet

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Posted 17 February 2010 - 03:09 PM

It's really not a waste to use two tanks. By doing that you're gaining a few thousand DPS by giving up an enormous amount of control on a fight that is not DPS limited at all. The key to beating this fight is controlling phase 3 as efficiently as possible, and unless you have enough DPS to straight burn her down (and you don't), you lose a lot more value than you gain by using one tank.

#49 Tharia

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Posted 17 February 2010 - 04:09 PM

We did our first kill in 10 man with just one tank and only two healers because for some reason it seemed better at that time and we used two healers for every other boss in 10 man before. I was wearing 4 pieces of FrostR gear and 264/258 tank gear in other slots. I was using a cooldown (Divine Protection, Divine Sacrifice+clickytrinket, Ardent Defender) for every breath/explosion as soon as stacks were too high. Healers were very stressed and a bad combination of Unchained Magic and iceblocks was almost certainly a wipe.
The other 10man groups, after having seen some videos of the fight, did it with 3 healers and two tanks and it was just so much more relaxed, even with many alts in the raid.

#50 Redcape

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Posted 17 February 2010 - 04:09 PM

This worked ok most of the time, but seems kinda risky to be much of a good plan. Are people who solo tank this ever dropping their stacks? Or do they out-gear the place?
.


My guild is 10 man Strict, no 25 man gear from ICC at all. We got Insanity maybe 7 times before ICC came out for reference. We use 1 tank and just burn her out. It does require efficient DPSing, but it is certainly doable. I think we are lucky though that we are running a DK tank for this since she doesn't breath as often in p3 and he was able to self cooldown through the breaths. We had a paladin and Disc ready for PS and Sac as necessary but didn't even end up using them. We do have the tank in 3 piece frost resist. We had melee resetting stacks regularly while dpsing cubes and ranged who got debuffed resetting stacks, but the raid as a whole kept on beating down as much as possible.
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#51 Kuku

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Posted 17 February 2010 - 04:51 PM

For those that are able to clear Sindragosa-25 (which a lot of people seem to agree is easier than 10-man), the stamina/on-use resistance trinket is an amazing item to use while solo-tanking this fight on 10-man. I know it's not something that can be relied on, since it is a gear drop, but it does make managing the breaths extremely simpler.

For those that are unaware, the trinket provides a large amount of resistance on a 1 minute cooldown. It should be up for every other breath. Wearing the 3 BS pieces of frost resistance gear, it brings you up to the mid-600s for frost resist. It's pretty amazing.

#52 Dustwhisper

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Posted 18 February 2010 - 09:57 AM

We did this first time 10man on tuesday aswell.

2 tanks (Warrior+paladin)
3 Healers (Paladin, Three-druid and an offspec shammy that is usually enhancement).
DPS was: Fury warrior, Unholy DK, 2xArc mage and a warlock.

We tanked her on the stairs with her head at the entrance. 2 blocks at bottom of stairs throughout airphases.

P2(p3):
Tanked her quite similar to P1 with tanks being at entrance but as much to one of the sides as possible so the open side had as much room as possible on the side for icetomb.
_______entrance________
__/_TANK_______ICETOMB \
/___||____________________\
/____|_____________________\
sindragosa

Tanks swapped stacks at 8-12 somewhere and had no frostresistance on. Ranged dropped stacks every 1-2 icetombs, I tend to drop every 2nd. ALL melee and whomever else of DPS that wanted ran behind on every icetomb and every DPS kill icetomb. We spawn the tomb on same spot every time (this requires DPS to be swift and people to be aware and react fast so they move away after killing TOMB and whomever will become next is in place immediately). Healers coordinate so that atleast 1 healer is always in LOS and healing and they alternate.

#53 BoomBeef

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 08:09 PM

Any of your raiders in 25 man version complain of lag issues occurring upon Grip? And if so will turning down any graphics effect help while still allowing them to see the Frost bomb markers in p2 ?

#54 Wizelteaks

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 08:23 PM

I found myself having a lag issue during the grip which was eliminated once i reduced my video settings to minimum values. I was also still able to see the markers for the frost bombs just fine during the air phase with the reduced settings.

#55 Blacksen

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 06:38 AM

Two completely unrelated things:

First is an observation regarding the Blistering Cold. We found that it helped massively to have ranged dps / healers stand somewhat closer to the boss. By reducing the travel time to the boss, you increase the amount of time to run away from the boss. At first, it seems obvious and trivial. It helped us significantly, however.

Second is a question about phase 3. We've been having the raid fall apart pretty much as soon as we get there. Everyone seems to be below 50% health at all times. 3 healers just doesn't seem like anywhere close to enough to keep everyone alive through mystic buffet damage, frost aura damage, and the melee/ranged debuff. How many stacks do you recommend melee going up to in phase 3?

#56 Rannasha

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 10:31 AM

Second is a question about phase 3. We've been having the raid fall apart pretty much as soon as we get there. Everyone seems to be below 50% health at all times. 3 healers just doesn't seem like anywhere close to enough to keep everyone alive through mystic buffet damage, frost aura damage, and the melee/ranged debuff. How many stacks do you recommend melee going up to in phase 3?


The first thing you need to do is to get people to rewire their brains and no longer think of P3 as a quick burn to the end. Even though it's only the last 35%, it can take as long as the first part of the fight. We decided to pop Bloodlust in one of the earlier land-phases to enforce the idea that P3 is not about DPS.

As for melee DPS, it's a common tactic to assign them to DPSing the icetombs. They only stack their DoT from attacking Sindragosa, so attacking the tombs is safe for them and greatly reduces the damage they take. Depending on how fast you're taking down the tombs, they may have time for a couple of hits on the boss before going to the next tomb.

Ranged and healers generally take every other icetomb, possibly deviating from this if the player can use a class-ability (such as Disperion or Ice Block) to stay out longer. Let your healers communicate with eachother who takes which block, so that you always have at least one healer not moving and hiding.

#57 Lucinde

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 01:40 AM

Second is a question about phase 3. We've been having the raid fall apart pretty much as soon as we get there. Everyone seems to be below 50% health at all times. 3 healers just doesn't seem like anywhere close to enough to keep everyone alive through mystic buffet damage, frost aura damage, and the melee/ranged debuff. How many stacks do you recommend melee going up to in phase 3?


While we don't really play out the fight like that in 10-men, you described pretty much what happened to us in 25-men so our strategy for that might help.

We tank the boss in the middle of the room with the raid being on the stairs. What we do is split the healers in 2 camps; one being on the "head" side of the dragon and one camp being on the "tail" side. The group on the head side is responsible for keeping the tank up and the group on the tail side is responsible for keeping the raid up. Whomever gets the ice tomb first will run to the tailside and put the iceblock between the tail-side healers and the dragon. This will put those healers out of line of sight of Sindragosa so they can continue healing without moving and reset their debuff.

When the second iceblock drops, the offtank will taunt Sindragosa from her behind, so she spins 180 degrees around. At this point, the healer group that was on the tailside is now on the headside and will be responsible for keeping the tank up while the other healer group will now heal the raid while they reset their debuffs. Basically healing assignments switch like this every taunt and as a result healers dont really have to move a lot making their output more than enough to heal through a few unchained magic and chilled to the bone stacks.

We generally have the dual wielders focus exclusively on ice tombs while other melee just resets their magic buffet every second tomb. Ranged generally hide behind every tomb while keeping some low dps on the boss. As long as you don't take more than 3 air phases to get her to phase 3 the dps requirements to meet the enrage timer are quite forgiving.

#58 Eviljamjar

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 10:54 AM

Unnsure whether this has been mentionned yet, only popping up to throw it in though.
We noticed that after the large AoE atack she does, she lurches forward and her hit box becomes a little awkward for the tank.
A Way i've found this can be dealt with is lightly strafing left to right at the edge of her hit box, only a couple of steps or so, but it keeps her in place.
Hope this is of some help to any having the same issue.

#59 sp00n

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 12:43 PM

In regards of the LoS tactic (stand behind the Ice Tomb, not getting the Mystic Buffet debuff but still ableto heal the tank), it seems that the "center" of her hit box - or at least the part where the debuff is originating from - is her head instead of her body.
All the projectiles flying to her head suggest this, as well as some anecdotal accidents (player getting stacks while behind the tomb, but within LoS of the head, etc).
Can anyone confirm/deny this?


Also this is a major point regarding the achievement, where the first tank really has to hurry not to exceed the stacks.
Also, pets do count for this achievement, so remember to pack them away in time.


On a related note, has anybody tried if the pillars on the sides of the room can be used to block LoS (for some sort of Firemaw tactic)?

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#60 Kirth

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 12:55 PM

On a related note, has anybody tried if the pillars on the sides of the room can be used to block LoS (for some sort of Firemaw tactic)?



We thought this as well, but it seems that there is nothing in the area that will block line of sight (at last for heals). I was able to heal people through the pillars, the torches and even through the walls on the stairs.




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